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2500 DE 7th ed List vs HE, VC, Daemons 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:41 am
Posts: 18
Hi All,

I have been a long time lurker around here and have finally signed up to get posting. I am designing a new list for an upcoming series of games vs HE, VC and Daemons. I just played all 3 under the old rules and got my backside handed to me on all 3 occasions, so it is time for revenge!

I am not tailoring this list for any specific opposing style, but obviously need to take into account the army-wide abilities of the three armies I will be facing.

Without further ado, here is the list and all comments welcome!

Characters
Supreme Sorceress (lvl 4, focus familiar, pendant of khaeleth, lifetaker, dark pegasus)
Master (HA, shield, chariot, BSB, Deathpiercer, Null talisman)
Sorceress (lvl 2, Null talisman, Guiding eye) - goes with RxB unit
Sorceress (lvl 2, dispel scroll, dark steed) - goes with Dark Riders (either)

Assassin (add. hand weapon, rune of khaine, rending stars, cloak of twilight) - goes with Shades to start

Core
5 Dark Riders (musician, RxB)
5 Dark Riders (musician)
5 Harpies
10 Repeater Crossbowmen (musician)

Special
6 Cold One Knights (FC, std of slaughter, Null talisman)
15 Black Guard (FC, std of hag graef, Null talisman)
5 Shades (GW)

Rare
War Hydra
War Hydra

10PD + PoDx3, 6DD + scroll + various null talismans

Seems to give a good mix of Magic, a little shooting, speed, solid hand-to-hand combat and immunity to fear for main hammer and anvil units.

I see the BG unit being the pivot of the battle line, either on an end in a refused flank or in the centre for a more pincer movement line.

Do you guys see any holes that will really sink me against HE, VC & Daemons?


Last edited by Coeur de lion on Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:53 am, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:03 am
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Noble
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am
Posts: 453
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Man, I don't envy your enemies.

Well, I think you need a little more static CR in the army OR a lot more avoidance and shooting/magic.

You either want to be beating the VC/Daemons with CR and lots of it or avoiding them completely!

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:59 pm
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Noble
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Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:13 am
Posts: 419
Location: Limerick, Ireland
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There is always a problem of fear when facing VC or DoC.

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:23 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:41 am
Posts: 18
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Yes, it has worked out rather well that my 3 most active warhammer opponents and I had our new books in sequence!

I have a game booked vs Daemons for Aug 16th, so have until then to come up with my list.

Thanks for those pointers. I think on reflection it is probably too character-heavy with essentially 5 characters. It is so hard to put the things you want into a list these days, with so many cool and worthwhile choices.

My daemon opponent has always been a Tzeentch heavy player (even using the old Hordes of Chaos book), so I do expect a few horror units, though probably no greater daemon. There are always screamers, he takes them pretty much every time and last battle he had some Fiends of Slaanesh. Haven't seen him take any Khorne and only a little Nurgle (mainly for the lore).

I think I either have to go magic-heavy and take him on at his strength, or low-magic and try to overwhelm him in combat.

Potential changes then:
- drop assassin and chariot hero for another lvl 2 sorceress, swap the normal warriors for some RxBs and see what points I have left over
- replace casters with 2 lvl 1 sorceress with scrolls for minimal defensive magic, take a lord, maybe with a dragon, keep the Ring of Hotek and load up on more close combat stuff (troops, another unit of CoKs, a second Hydra etc.)
- make sure that I have more than US12 after casualties as any unit of 4 US3 beasts/fiends etc will not auto-break the unit.

Having not actually used the new book yet, I want to make sure I start off with a good, fair win to put the others back in their place :)


Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:58 pm
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Slave on the Altar
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Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:25 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Wonder Lake, IL
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Well I would advise against buying the dragon. 2 of his best features (terror and anti charge flame breath) are useless against VC and Daemons.

I just played a VC buddy last weekend. I used:
Dreadlord mounted on Manticore
-reverse ward
-HA regen armor
-killing blow lance

This makes the character nearly un-killable and you have 8 total attacks that are hatred AND killing blow! I tied up his unit with the general using black guard, then swooped in and instantly killed the gen with 2 successful KB's.

I also went with 2 level 2 sorcs. No other characters.
Black guard with Hag-flag is OP, never make a list without it.
Cold One Knights are pretty good on any opponent. Take cold blood banner for the 1 critical turn.
RxB warriors are worth 2-3x their points against most core troops. I was mowing down VC core like they were nothing. It really helped a lot against the raised hordes.

Besides that the rest of the list is pretty much customizing your playstyle. I haven't played Daemons so don't have an position on that :)


Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:15 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:41 am
Posts: 18
Post 
Thanks Acumenth,

I do hate that the dragon has less effect against both these armies, and I am sure I could use my Dark Elf-themed HE dragon miniature as a pseudo-manticore (I don't have the manti mini).

Shooting could be good against Daemons due to their low T, but the armour piercing has no effect on their ward of course.

I am seriously considering 2 Hydras. I used a 6th edition one last time we played and he fell foul of the Changeling (I had no idea what it was - won't be making that mistake again....)


Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:01 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:41 am
Posts: 18
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Well, we have an update. The points limit has now gone up to 2500, so I have another 250 points to play around with.

Options could be:
- a second hydra and some more troops
- another block of combat infantry
- another unit of Cold one knights
- two small blocks of RxB troops

All seem like reasonable choices to me :)


Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:24 am
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Noble
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Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:13 am
Posts: 419
Location: Limerick, Ireland
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Against the Daemon army take two RBTs at least and
two Dark Rider units with RXBs. Shooting is where they
will fall so max out on it until you are satisfyied.

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Tally:

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Dark Elves W8 D0 L0


Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:19 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:41 am
Posts: 18
Post 
Ok, I have had a while to review the list and fill it out a bit more to bring it up to exactly 2500 points.

With 2 Hydras, a master in chariot, solid unit of CoK and the Black Guard I have a decent amount of tough, close combat troops now backed up by even more magic.

I decided to ditch the Ring of Hotek in this magic heavy list in favour of the Null Talismans. They will make my DD go even further than normal and will help against the 1 dice castings of the Tzeentch Boon and VC Invocation. Also to help dispelling the annoying bound spells that seem to be all over the HE, VC & Daemon lists.

The initial post has been updated to reflect the changes!

Daemons battle is booked in for Aug 16th and HE the week after on the 23rd.


Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:59 am
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:03 pm
Posts: 29
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Against VC, anti magic and heavy combat units, CoK with a bsb with the hydra banner for instance, ur enemy summons a unit of 60 zombies (yes, i saw my friend do that right in front of my eyes, the 6's that have been rolled that day, unbelievable.) thats a unit which can cute a lot of them gone. That unit alone should be able to destroy around 40-50 zombies, ghouls, skeletons,...around 20 kills and then around 20 crumbling, mostly rushing through the unit. A hydra can add some extra too as wel as corsairs with for instance frenzy banner. Neither of those units have to be afraid of fear and can deal with the units in a VC army, for the rest make sure u anti magic and maybe a tiny bit of shooting to take down bats and wolfs.

Against Demons, it depends against what ur standing. 2RBT atleast, shooting is deadly for them. Only plauebearers have T4 and 5+ wards ave u say...well i rather have them a 5+ wards save and that that then a 3+ armour save. It's still a 5 or 6 to roll and every player knows that can go horribly wrong. In some cases good but no one is gonna keep saving those 5 kills u did. Also DR and shades. A big problem with the demons is that they aren't that manouvreable, mostly u'll face three blocks of 20 a greater demon, and one or two other units which are fast or skirmish. These can easily be taken out with shooting and magic.


Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:19 am
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