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How to make an all cavalry list work... 
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Noble
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Hey all,

I've been toying with a balanced list lately but you know, I really like the idea (and models) of multiple units of CoK. So much so in fact I may drop my balanced lists for a list that is HEAVY on CoK. The only problem is I have no idea about how to create such a list!!

One thing you need to do is sort out stupidity so the Cold Blooded banner and Malus come to the fore as excellent choices.

You also need to set up your CoK for their charges so Harpies and Dark Riders are perfect.

Again, Hydras in your rares seem perfect.

But here are my questions:

- You'd need to go character light to have the points for so many Knights which isn't that much of a problem considering they pack an almighty wallop without characters! But what characters would suit an army like this?

- How many units of CoK would be best?

- What configuration would be needed?

I was going to post a list in the relevant section but I think I need to scoop up some intel!

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:09 pm
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Roleplaying Deity
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perhaps your character setup could be (assuming malus is a hero choice i dont remember, i thoiught morathi malekith shadowblade and hellebronw were the lords)

Dreadlord with lance and cheap armour
idea is to keep him alive, lance for hitting power, cheap as possible. He is there for the ld10.

Malus
obvious reasons

Master BSB - cold blooded banner
again, obvious choice with the banner

Sorceress lvl 1 - dark steed - 2 scrolls
magic defence



Right, then you need your cavalry which i would make up as:

10 knights
10 knights
5 knights
5 knights
5 dark riders
5 dark riders
[i] two solid hitting units with malus in one and bsb in one, and two smaller units to take on smaller enemies. Dark riders work as screens and flankers.

and then:
6 harpys
6 harpys
war hydra


something like that, perhaps


Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:17 pm
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Dark Rider

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i think 3 units of 6 its a nice number what i usually use.

i also think that a sorceress on dark peggie might be worth getting, or a manticore rider.

A lot of dark riders for screens and flankers. I've thought of doing the all mounted list a few times but like our infantry choices to much.


Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:18 pm
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Assassin
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Quote:
Master BSB - cold blooded banner
again, obvious choice with the banner

You don't need the BSB to take the blood banner on CoKs, and you should never need to re-roll break tests with CoKs. The BSBs mobility is also wasted since it's a one-use banner. I'm guessing you suggest this because then you can also have the standard of slaughter on your CoKs. Fair enough, but it's expensive.

So to save points I think you should either take:
-a dreadlord for ld10
-or Malus, and possibly the BSB with blood banner

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:29 pm
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Noble
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I've been thinking 2 units of 7 and one unit of 6 accompanied by Malus. One other has the Banner so that only one of my units will be taking Stupidity tests.

I would either go max magic or no magic in this list and max on defensive items.

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:40 pm
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Beastmaster
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YourMumRang wrote:
I've been thinking 2 units of 7 and one unit of 6 accompanied by Malus. One other has the Banner so that only one of my units will be taking Stupidity tests.


Sidenote: I like how your forum title is currently "Cold One Knight"... very fitting.

I've been thinking about a similar list. The idea I was kicking around was something along the lines of:

Dreadlord on Cold One (PoK and a magic weapon of your choice)
Malus
BsB with Hydra Banner on Cold one

6 CoK, full command
6 CoK, full command
6 CoK, full command, with cold blooded banner (BSB goes in here)

Hydra
Hydra
5 DR
5 DR
5 DR
5 harpies
5 harpies
small unit of shades
N(5 DR)

N= however many you can fit

That gives you 3 relatively reliable (LD10, immune to stupidity, and cold blooded banner) CoK units that all hit very hard.

I think you could get by with minimal magic defense if you take a RoH somewhere and a few nullshards. Your army will be extremely fast and hopefully you can kill a few casters early or at least get them in combat.

Throw in your preferences for magic banners too if points allow it. I haven't done the math, but that seems like it will be close to 2250.

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:10 pm
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Black Guard

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What about a unit of 7 or 8 with full command and Malus, a unit of 7 or 8 with full commnad, cold blooded banner and a BSB with the hydra banner, and 2 units of 5. Support with a caddy sorceress hidden somewhere, and the ring of hotek on a champion. You get a reliable pair of units that can smash through anything, and an overall fast, hitty army.


Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:13 pm
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When you say all mounted list do you mean no chariots?

To make this type of list more viable I would suggest 1-3 units of 6-7 CoKs, one regular chariot in the remaining special splot and one chariot as a mount for a noble. This gives you much more hittng power over a smaller frontage than just CoKs alone. Are you going to include hydras?

You should closely consider a unit of dark riders with shields.

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:18 pm
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i made a list base on some of the suggestions here:

malus darkblade-275

master-214
BSB, hydra banner, CO, SDC, HA, beastmaster's scourage

sorceress-157
lifetaker, tome of furion, dark steed

dark riders-110
x5, rxb

dark riders-110
x5, rxb

dark riders-110
x5, rxb

harpies-66
x6

shades-102
x6, xhw

COK-262
x6, FC, standard of hag graef, ring of hotek

COK-242
x6, FC, banner of cold blood, pearl of infinite bleakness

COK-252
x6, FC, standard of slaughter, null talisman

war hydra-175

war hydra-175

total-2250

lack some magic protection, but its fast, with ring of hotek around you should ware off most magic.

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:57 pm
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Heres what I field in a tipical matchup, shrinking it when needed for smaller matches, like running noting on the units (CoK and DR+Xbow) for ~1250 total. Remember nothing listed here is cut and dry for me, I allways change something up on my list to help keep an unknown factor in it. So use your imagination, overall I love runing this list...in "freindly" games...

*thanks Poisonblade for a good roster setup*

Dreadlord on Dragon (PoK, AoES)
BsB with Hydra Banner on Cold one
Sorceress vairys to much to tell
Assasin(s)*

6 CoK, full command or CoC or 5 shades*
6 CoK, full command or CoC or 5 shades*
6 CoK, full command
6 CoK, full command
6 CoK, full command, (BSB goes in here)

5 DR, Mu, Xbow
5 DR, Mu, Xbow
5 DR, Mu, Xbow
5 DR, Mu, Xbow

6 harpies
6 harpies

Hydra
Hydra

*if so wished I may add assasins, sometimes using them to cover the CoK that went stupid. Thinking of trying a Dreadlord...on foot, using the twilight to move him about !lol! .

Edit: fixed as posted below.

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Last edited by Voidmaster on Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:13 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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@Voidmaster

You've got yourself 7 specials in that list and 4 core. What points level are you playing?

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:29 pm
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Quote:
@Voidmaster

You've got yourself 7 specials in that list and 4 core. What points level are you playing?

Edited it:
LOL, I lost track of what army list I was useing, combinding army list is not a good thing...I am like a dog chasing cars, I would not know what to do with one if I cought it. :oops:

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:50 pm
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Noble
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Dark Elves only have 4 Specials you know :P

As for me, I'd likely go much more minimal on characters and boost my CoK lists using standards and magic items. That way the points are spread between them all. Something like:

- 7 CoK: Musician - Champ w/ Ring of Hotek - Standard w/ Banner of Murder
(So these hit nice and hard thanks to the Standard and also provide some magical protection)

- 7 CoK: Musician - Champ w/ Crimson Death - Standard w/ Banner of Cold Blood
(A mini-hero in the Champ keeps their hitty power and the Banner makes sure they get to use him)

- 6 CoK: Musician - Champ w/ Null Talisman - Standard w/ Banner of Hag Graef/Slaughter
(Malus rides with these boys and so they have a little more defense against magic and whichever Banner you boys think is best)


After that I'd take a Sorceress w/ Scrolls, 3 x 5 Dark Riders, 4 x 5 Harpies, 2 Hydras and then either a Chariot or some Shades.

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:56 pm
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Looks pretty solid.

Personally, I like the ASF with Malus. It's the only time I think I'd take ASF banner on CoK. That would be a nasty suprise for any enemy cav that manages to charge you.

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Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:26 pm
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Noble
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In fact, what do you think of an army like this?

Quote:
Characters:
Malus Darkblade @ 275pts
Sorceress: 2 Scrolls @ 150pts

Core:
5 Dark Riders: Crossbows - Musician @ 117pts
5 Dark Riders: Crossbows - Musician @ 117pts
5 Dark Riders: Crossbows - Musician @ 117pts
5 Harpies @ 55pts
5 Harpies @ 55pts
5 Harpies @ 55pts
5 Harpies @ 55pts

Special:
7 Cold One Knights: Standard w/ Banner of Murder - Champion w/ Ring of Hotek @ 271pts
6 Cold One Knights: Standard w/ Banner of Hag Graef - Champion w/ Null Talisman @ 244pts
7 Cold One Knights: Standard w/ Banner of Cold Blood - Champion w/ Crimson Death @ 261pts
7 Shades: Great Weapons @ 126pts

Rare:
Hydra @ 175pts
Hydra @ 175pts

2248pts

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:03 pm
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Why not combine the harpies into 2 x 10 units?

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:18 pm
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Noble
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Any particular reason to do that?

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:30 pm
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The Scourge of Khaine
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None :D

How about using a big unit of (12) Coks and 2 small units of 5, with only musicians in them?

I'd also incude a couple of hunting nobles on dark steeds like:
Master - DS,SDC,HA,Shield,Caledors Bane,Null Shard
Master - DS,SDC,HA,Shield,Lance,Potion of Strength,Null Shard

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:35 pm
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Noble
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Yeah, that certainly is an idea but I liked the idea of the CoK representing Malus' Warband. You know, the ones who smash through entire armies!

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:54 pm
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:) thx YMR, thats helped a fair bit :D... would anyone suggest taking chariots or are they fairly expensive/pointless?

Edit: + what is the new hyrdra's movement I'm gusssing its 6?

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:06 pm
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Noble
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Correct. Chariots definately have a place! You get a strong hitter on a small space.

Essentially, my list uses Hydra to do the same job.

The way I see my list working is that I need to be able to bring the cav to bear where I need them and when. This is why I have so many support units!

Those CoK can smash through almost anything (Hatred usually means only 1 or 2 misses - usually for me all hit!) but there are only 3 units. So your Harpies are there to slow the enemy, redirect and bait. The Dark Riders are there for that too but I prefer them to take out support units and prepare flank charges. The Shades do what they are meant to do and they will butcher enemies with their GW's. They Hydras are troubleshooters and fire-magnets :D

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:16 pm
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I don't think that the crimson death you gave a champion would do much good. Seeing the fact that the guy already attacks with S6 on the charge. I would suggest the null shard instead, to give you some extra protection against magic.

Maybe a strange suggestion for an all cavalry force, but what about a cauldron of blood. The thing itself has inbuild magical defence, ward save and some strong crew, so it wouldn't be easily destroyed. And seeing the fact that it's stubborn, it won't flee very fast. But it can change a charge of heavy cavalry into a charge that hits harder than chosen knights of chaos! The option to get an extra attack on one of your most important charges can really tip thing in your favour. And the option to give a unit a 5+ ward save can mean the difference between a whole unit reaching the enemy or only a shot down remnance of a unit. I think it's worth considering even thoug it's not a cavalry model.

Greetz, Tolkar.

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:35 pm
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YourMumRang wrote:
Correct. Chariots definately have a place! You get a strong hitter on a small space.

Essentially, my list uses Hydra to do the same job.

The way I see my list working is that I need to be able to bring the cav to bear where I need them and when. This is why I have so many support units!

Those CoK can smash through almost anything (Hatred usually means only 1 or 2 misses - usually for me all hit!) but there are only 3 units. So your Harpies are there to slow the enemy, redirect and bait. The Dark Riders are there for that too but I prefer them to take out support units and prepare flank charges. The Shades do what they are meant to do and they will butcher enemies with their GW's. They Hydras are troubleshooters and fire-magnets :D


Ah lol nice idea, ye I guess chariots aren't great at soaking up fire as strength 7* and POP, 100ish points gone eh?

*edit

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Last edited by Greynightmare on Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:45 pm
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I like the list, but I would really try to squeeze a BSB with the Hydra banner in there. Maybe dropping Crimson Death and a few Cold Ones/Shades?

Hydra Banner on Cold Ones is just plain murder, you will mow down just about any infantry in the game.

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:37 pm
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Noble
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Heck, almost anything in the game!

Rather than talk about my list, let's discuss some of the things you need for a cav army to work. Here's a few I can think of:

- You need to control the enemy movement so you can bring your Knights to bear.
- You NEED something to mitigate Stupidity.
- You need some insurance in case you don't break the enemy (IE Crimson Death for S6 in round 2).

I think the Hydra Banner is great but I prefer to spread my power around.

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:42 pm
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