100% Khainite, Hellebron army, GT style 2250 points

Post by **Kinslayer** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:37 pm

350 - Crone Hellebron

250 - Death Hag - cauldron of blood, rune of khaine, manbane
195 - Death Hag - BSB, standard of hag graef, rune of khaine, black lotus

170 - 12 Witch Elves - full command, hag with witchbrew, banner of murder
170 - 12 Witch Elves - full command, hag with witchbrew, warbanner
170 - 12 Witch Elves - full command, hag with witchbrew
170 - 12 Witch Elves - full command, hag with witchbrew
55 - 5 Harpies
55 - 5 Harpies
55 - 5 Harpies
55 - 5 Harpies

222 - 16 Executioners, full command
84 - 7 Executioners
84 - 7 Executioners

165 - Assassin - 2 hand weapons, rune of khaine, touch of death, black lotus

_____
2250

Sinitar · Post by **Sinitar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:27 am

Cool Army, I'd love to see that lined up on the battlefield, longing for slaughter and carnage. I doubt it will be all that effective though...

How about using the witches as 3x12 rather than 2x18, for even more kills?

And could you even field Tullaris by any chance? That'd be overkill, style-wise. Maybe drop the Exec Units to 12 and hire the master executioner?

Blackfrost · Post by **Blackfrost** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:40 am

Greetin's

I've been meaning to make a similar list myself so it's exciting to see this army.

I would give the DH with the Cauldron the BSB upgrade to make the most out of all those stubborn units. I wouldn't put Hellebron a Manticore but kudos to you for mounting her. Can she get the CoB's ward save while mounted?

Goodluck with the list!

Kargan daemonclaw · Post by **Kargan daemonclaw** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:43 am

I didn't realise that harpies were khanite?

So you end up with Hellbrone, 4 units of infantry with almost no armour and 2 small harpy units.

Also you have almost no magic defence. I would have thought an army like this would need to load up on Null talismans to boost the Magic resistance.

Sinitar · Post by **Sinitar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:49 am

Of course, as I already mentioned, the list is quite ineffective against some foes. But, if I get it right, It's about style.

In fact, harpies do not have the special rule "khainite" as they should, for they are sacred beasts which are said to be the spirits of witch elves who are fallen in battle.

Still, I agree with you that null talismans or even the ring of hotek on a draich master would help a lot to prevend magic genocide on this army.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:51 am

nobody in the list is able to take null talismans, considering they only have access to the temple of khaine. BSB could help, and 3x12 witches looks better actually. I may drop one assassin to get the BSB upgrade and also invest in something else for the army. The witch elf list will never win battles on armour and magic defence anyway, since pure Khainite list wont include a sorceress or any armoured core models. The 5+ ward from bloodshield is nice though, i may have a second cauldron so i can stack the effects. My interpretation is Harpies are the souls of dead witch elves, which therefor makes them Khainite (not ruleswise but fluffwise)

I dont want to field Tullaris because hes pants, and because i cant really free up any more space in the list. The only thing changeable is unit setup and maybe dropping an assassin. I need 3 core anyway, i just realised, and Harpies dont count. So how does the list look now?

Oxayotl · Post by **Oxayotl** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:31 am

Draich-Master cannot take magic items. There is no entry for it in the AB.

Sinitar · Post by **Sinitar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:34 am

Errr, then you probably are screwed in terms of magic defense. You are not allowed to stack multiple blessings on one unit though.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:46 am

okay i swapped back the ring for manbane, someone mentioned it before so i thought it was allowed. Theres no real way for me to take magic defence so i will have to rely on that 5+ ward and 2DD, unless i can somehow pop in a cheap master with ring and a scroll? But that means sacrificing yet more of my already meagre units. I dont really want to lose the manticore either.

Oxayotl · Post by **Oxayotl** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:54 am

Only thing i can think off is dropping an Assassin. The amount of attacks being thrown out from the WE's and the Exec's should be enough to take whatever it is you'll be up against.

Drop a Sin, maybe pick up some 25pt banners for the WE's/Exec's, and slap a mundane Master on the back of Black Beauty and have a 12" Ring of Miscast anywhere where you need it.

Only thing that comes to my mind.

Ignotus · Post by **Ignotus** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:58 am

Themed well, but in reality having a relatively slow (except harpies), no magic, no shooting army means you're going to get destroyed before you ever get into combat. And this army needs to get into combat fast.

Against any well balanced or heavy magic or heavy shooting army it'd be over by turn 3.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:11 am

changed the list again, got a 2nd death hag and reduced the executioners into 3 units without commands, and dropped the second assassin. I now have an ASF unit of witches or executioners, but i still lack any magic defence at all. I was thinking of running master+ring+ha+sdc+sh for 125pts

Ignotus · Post by **Ignotus** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:35 am

You can take a Master but he's not Khainite, so he's not in the theme and he can't join any units, so he'd be walking around by himself, and very likely to be picked off.

Knightsaber · Post by **Knightsaber** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:15 am

Your executioner units are too large. If they are to be large block units with ranks, then they need command. However, as stubborn speed bumps, flankers, or active combat res generators they should be 7-12 models in size.

As others have mentioned, it might be worth finding the points for the war banner and banner of murder. Both are quite effective for your army and rather cheap to boot!

Additionally, I would strongly recommend dropping a unit of executioners and adding 3 additional units of 5 harpies. Your army is severely lacking in maneuver, speed, and magic defense. Harpies are huge force multipliers thanks to their ability to redirect enemies. Additionally, they are passable warmachine and mage hunters - two jobs your army desperately needs doing.

Alternatively, a master on a chariot with the Ring of Hotek would be a huge boon to the army but I cannot see a way to justify this while keeping to theme.

Finally, shades would be a great addition if you could find a way to make them fit your theme.

Druchii77 · Post by **Druchii77** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:18 am

I like it simply for strong theme. THe problem will obviously be that it will be picked apart by most shooty or magicky lists, but something should make it across to starting kicking your opponent around and that is when it get fun! As odd as it sounds, this might be a great army to take a second cauldron with simply because you could give two units the 5+ ward until the get across the table to fight. That coupled with an assassin and the ASF banner, should also give you some quick fighting units.

Jaqtaar · Post by **Jaqtaar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:54 am

Do you want the 100% khainite army or would you be willing to take some other units?

As it is the army has great style but is in my eyes also a bit boring. Not all members of the cult are witches or executioners after all.

There are lots of possibilities: Warriors (basic retainers), Shades (headhunters?), COK and COC (nobility of Har Ganeth, maybe even modelled as mounted executioners), a hunter Master on Pegasus (there's bound to be a hunter aspect of Khaine) etc
You could also explore the Disciple of Khaine concept from the Darkblade novels and the Warhamer Online game by taking a Master with suitable magic items.

Personally I'd only use 2 units of Executioners of 10 each, that would free up 300 points for a unit of shades and a Master on pegasus with Ring of Hotek. I'd also try to squeeze in a third unit of harpies.

Gibious · Post by **Gibious** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:19 am

Yeah khainite army is kinda limitting, as withy any themed army. But an army including a khainite theme... Ever thought of Hotek bearing Black Guard and only one Executioner block? Confers some magic defence and will free up for another assassin,

Then whoever hold your BSB will be feared and whoever doesnt will also be pretty scary.

Taloc · Post by **Taloc** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:54 am

personally i wouldnt take hellebron on manti, as she has no as/ws and neither does the manti, so you've got a large target with no saves of any sort admitedly she can fly so you can use cover well, but if she find herself outside of cover any unit could take her out, and even if she does get into combat, yes she can tear through nearly everyone but if she fails to kill the entire front line or they have a hero in there and they get some attacks back, shes almost certainly going to take a wound or 2. (i got bored and rolled some dice to see what would happen if a 9 man unit of xbowmen shot at her, half range large target, hitting on 3s, ended up as hellebron dies and the manti lost 2 wounds).

if i would take her i would put her on foot and in a large unit of executioners, as they have 5+ saves and with a cauldron helping you can either give them a 5+ ward or another attack giving them some nice survivability.... even better give the unit a asf banner.

and with that 200 points free you can get either another big unit of executioners/witch elves , another death hag with cauldron to sit at the back and give killing blow to a unit of witch elves (yummy) , or shadowblade (instead of the assassin) to hide in the enemy units to take out their casters/warmachines which would allow you to take less casulties in the shooting and/or magic phase, any of which will make up for the manticore. admittedly you wouldnt have as much flying stuff which is the biggest drawback but using terrain, harpies and sheer numbers of models it should work well.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:36 am

how does it look now?

i finally gave in and dropped the manticore, ive got the terror causing cauldron anyway. Now i added 1 more unit of witches, 2 more units of harpys, 2 banners to the witches and dropped the executioners down to 10 points each. I dont want to include anything without the khainte rule except Harpies (who are still "khainite").

Its a themed army, not great on armour but shielded by Harpies, and although i lack shooting and magic its a killer in combat. Dont forget how fast elves can move around.

Sinitar · Post by **Sinitar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:50 pm

I like it much better now, though I'd like to see one big (13, with full command) unit of execs and two small (7), so the hag with the banner can join the big one. With khaines fury, things start to get pretty nasty. WS 5, S6, hatred, deathblow, 2 attacks each and ASF should rip anything coming your way a new one, even butchering through heavy cavalry, ogres and characters with ease.

Apart of that, if the enemy knows your executioners lethalness, they will soak up all the shooting, leaving hellebron free to get into combat (you can still disband the executioners with your hag if you see them dieing too fast)

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:22 pm

i will think about that, dont forget i do have some magic defence in the form of the amulet of fire which Hellebron has. So that will give one of my units a 50-50 chance of the magic cast at them fizzling out if i fail to dispel.