Dealing With the Anvil of Doom

Dozerdozen · Post by **Dozerdozen** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:29 pm

Greetings!!

I'm new to the Dark Elves and Druchii.net but have had great success to date... However, I'll be going up a 3,500pt Dwarf list that is centered around Thorek and his Anvil of Doom protected by a battery of 2 organ guns and two bolt throwers.

My most likely solution that I have come up with is a Dread Lord equipped with H Armor, Shield, SDC, Lance, Black Amulet, and Potion of Strength.

However, I think my plan on delivering him safely is unfortunately reliable too much on luck.

I plan on using the terrain that we place to screen him from hopefully at least one or two of his four war machines and using my 3 sorceresses to cast Chillwind/Blade Wind at his most threatening war machine to my general.

Assuming I can get him to land on the Anvil, that will be 4 rerollable attacks at Strength 9 from my general that I plan on dedicating all to Thorek and 5 attacks at strength 6 from his dragon directed at Kraggi and 2 anvil guards.

I'm fairly confident that I can take Thorek out with the Dread Lord between having no armor save and likely being wounded from the effects of the Black Amulet, but I'm not so sure about the three crew. I anticipate winning the combat on his turn and then flying into cover from his artillery at the beginning of my turn, hopefully being able to utilize the dragon's terror and breath weapon.

If I can pull this off, I think that my mobility will be able to overcome his stubborness to break from combat and insure another victory for the Druchii.

What do you think? Can you suggest a better way to deliver my Dreadlord to his target? Do you have an entirely different idea all together? I'd appreciate any advice you could give. This battle will begin this coming Wednesday.

Rather than post my army I'll tell you the units i don't have: WE, COB, EXC
MANTI, RBT. My unit of shades does have an assassin in it too

Thanks in advance for the strategies that I know you guys will provide.

Dozer

Dozerdozen · Post by **Dozerdozen** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:35 pm

My apologies for posting under Army Lists. Will a mod please move this thread to Tactics?

Thanks,
Dozer

Reincus · Post by **Reincus** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:02 pm

He'll hit your dreadlord with the anvil, he won't be able to fly and will take the 2D6 str 4 hits... so unless you already planned on walking your dragon there, then you might want to reconsider.

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:07 pm

Use Shadowblade in one of his Organ Guns (or anything thats closer to Thorek) then make way for the Anvil and hope for a killing blow.

Dozerdozen · Post by **Dozerdozen** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:00 am

Reincus wrote:He'll hit your dreadlord with the anvil, he won't be able to fly and will take the 2D6 str 4 hits... so unless you already planned on walking your dragon there, then you might want to reconsider.

Wow!! After reading the Anvil of Doom description I can;t believe I missed that HUGE detail. Now I am clueless as to how to take it out right away.

@SilverHeimdall: The lists are already set so Shadowblade is not an option, but assuming he was, couldn't he be placed in the Anvil of Doom?

If anyone has personal experience against the Anvil of Doom, please share how you dealt with it and what you may ave learned regarding its strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks,
Dozer

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:19 am

Meh I'd take care of an Organ Gun before getting Shadowblade killed - He's gonna need support to take the runelord down, because if he doesnt kill Thorek, there's a good chance he'll get killed or keep him busy but not for long.

Anyway, since the lists already set.. x: I dunno! Goodluck

Thorek is the epitome of cheese so there's not much I can do to help.

Slortor · Post by **Slortor** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:58 am

the only time i played thorek i was using BoC - its was an absolute bloodbath which ended up with Thorek on his side (only thorek - i killed the rest) and a beastlord on my side - in combat with thorek

he won cause the anvil doesnt give up 1/2 points :rolleyes:, i got him by dropping 2 ambushing units right next to him - they held him up until my beastlord got there (having lost his chariot) - with DE you probably need to just submerge him in fast units to the point where he just cant kill them all then just keep holding him up till something hard can get there.

A Master with the cloak of hag graef might be quite useful...

Burizan · Post by **Burizan** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:30 pm

Imo either go magic heavy (2 lords 2+heroes) or ignore magic completely. I have played against this alot in 2k games, and find that combat heavy is the answer. Give him too much to shoot at. Give black guard the AP banner (dread banner can be useful to autobreak) and stick a ring of darkness master in there and just march it straight at thorek. Shooting is fairly useless against most dwarf armies, the majority will be absorbed by high toughness and armour, and even if you do score a panic test they will pass it on his ld10.

Including a cauldron of blood can give you an effective way if protecting your units from massed firepower, and dont leave your manbane assassins at home for this fight. A large block or two of spearmen, possibly without shields, gives your opponent something to shoot at, and as long as he shoots them then your main units can easily get up close and personal. If he ignores them they can still hurt his shooting units quite well via static res and hatred, and even if they have been shot up badly, and maybe fled, they can still be used to capture table quarters.

Corum jhaelen irsei · Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:57 pm

He might also have Thorek hidden inside some forest/woods so you'll need to waste lots of turns to even get close to him.

Alternatively, ignore magic and shooting - don't take any sorceress or xbows/repeaters at all and include only hard hitting units (chariots, knights, executioners, dragon, manticore) to strike at his tough/armored dwarf units and lots of harpy units (5 harpies each) to keep his warmachines busy.

If the list cannot change, good luck!!!

Milney · Post by **Milney** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:02 pm

Spam Lore of Metal at him until you get them through.

1) The Anvil doesn't work like the Cauldron of Blood - he doesn't get to randomise hits onto the anvil. All hits are randomised between the Dwarves.

2) The Anvil doesn't give a flat 4+ Ward Save. It only gives its save vs. Missiles and Magic Missiles of which Rule of Burning Iron and Spirit of the Forge aren't.

3) They all wear at least Gromril Armour (I think they might even have shields and Thorek has a 1+ armour save), which means you'll be wounding on 4's at worst, and 3s or 2s most likely. With no Save allowed.

The only problem is ofcourse getting to him. But I'll leave that up to you

Rising son · Post by **Rising son** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:45 am

How about using a Sorceress on Peggy (or even just a dark steed) + focus familiar + lore of metal + Pendant or Black amulet. She can place the familiar into the forest within the mandatory 2 inches of the anvil and then let rip. (AFAIK it seems legal)

You just have to keep her away from the rest of the army or she's toast. A horse-shoe formation of harpies and/or lots of other fast moving distractins might help.

HERO · Post by **HERO** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:41 am

Rising Son wrote:How about using a Sorceress on Peggy (or even just a dark steed) + focus familiar + lore of metal + Pendant or Black amulet. She can place the familiar into the forest within the mandatory 2 inches of the anvil and then let rip. (AFAIK it seems legal)

You just have to keep her away from the rest of the army or she's toast. A horse-shoe formation of harpies and/or lots of other fast moving distractins might help.

It's perfectly legal and that's exactly what I would do.

Peggy + Familiar + Pendant and 2x Power Stones.

Or use Shadow and drop Pit of Shades on Thorek. There's a lot of options here.

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:16 am

Thorek has I4 I think? so only 33% chance to get him down per cast.

Pgp · Post by **Pgp** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:45 am

I don't think delves have anymore that much problems with thorek-gunline. One option is to take a 25 spearblock with shadow or metal lvl4 mage inside using sacrificial dagger to boost the magic phase (or you might use tome and powerstones to get best possible chances to get the sixth spell). Presented Peggy (or with steed) shadow/metal 6 spell lvl4 with focus familiar can work also against thorek. Assasin with suitable gear (manbane?) inside 5-6 gw-shades can scarp fast all the missile and gunnery units behind lines. Many units of harpys and rxb-WR can get fast to gunline. You might fit inside rxb-WR some kind of hardhitting steed hero to deal with thorek. You might fit COK unit also to deal with little harder units (stupidity banner is almost oblicatory without ld10 general). For a cherry on your cake add double hydra. Speed+Regeneration+t5 should help against shooting. Yes the new DE-book is nasty indeed.

Post by **Loki** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:54 pm

Moved to Druchii Tactics.

Medas · Post by **Medas** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:04 pm

My solutions against Thorek (excluding Shadowblade) are two:
1) Use Shadow magic Pit of shades is the Dwarf killer, consider that the Machines and the Anvil do not have initiative then are immediately destroyed.
2) A lone reaper Hero on a dark steed with pendant and killing blow (cannot be targeted by Anvil of Doom - single no large model).

Burizan · Post by **Burizan** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:14 pm

Okay I could use having this cleared up:

Milney said "1) The Anvil doesn't work like the Cauldron of Blood - he doesn't get to randomise hits onto the anvil. All hits are randomised between the Dwarves."

But my opponent (and a nearby gw staff member) disputed this and didn't let me waste time by looking it up.

medas: killing blow is 25 pts and the pendant is 35 pts so I don't think you can fit that in on a master. Pit of shades does seem to be perfect for anvil slaying, and I will have to try that.

Milney · Post by **Milney** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:17 am

Burizan wrote:Okay I could use having this cleared up:

Milney said "1) The Anvil doesn't work like the Cauldron of Blood - he doesn't get to randomise hits onto the anvil. All hits are randomised between the Dwarves."

But my opponent (and a nearby gw staff member) disputed this and didn't let me waste time by looking it up.

It's in the Dwarf FAQ...

http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errat ... dwarfs.pdf

Handy hint here, GW Redshirts possibly know the least about rules queries followed closely by the "Rulez Boyz".

Part of the GW recruitment process is that applicants are expected to be familiar with the three main games systems before even applying for a job, and provides no actual training or revision of the rules (bar issuing free copies of the core rulebooks on release).

GW are also possibly the lowest paying retail employer, and as such the people attracted to being "Redshirts" are those kids who hung around the store whilst they were in school, and as such probably learnt the (wrong) rules from the staff which preceeded them. If you look carefully you'll find specific errors in rules interpretations which are unique to particular stores. It's like chinese whispers - only often the "original" whisperer got it wrong in the first place!

And as for opponents refusing to reference rules? Don't play them. If he was adamant that you shouldn't look up the rules, he probably knew you were correct and just didn't want to lose his precious anvil. Ignorance does not a solid argument make.

So make a note of the URL I linked above and go back and show them the error of there ways.

Descipleofkhaine · Post by **Descipleofkhaine** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:07 am

i played against the anvil in the past and its very hard. I think magic ist not the right choice to fight it. Because you need a hard magical list to cast. Remember dwarfs have 4 Dice in their dispell poll plus one for the anvil and plus one for Thorek. That makes it very difficult to use magic. And don´t forget more dice means a greater chance to roll Snakeeyes.
I think a highborn on a dragon is a bad choice. Boltthrowers, the anvil and the organs would kill the dragon before you getting close enought. A higborn on a Pegasus with Gop bring them to fast death i think. Unfortunately its gonna be hard to survive after killing the anvil crew. withe the organ guns and bolt throwers.

Burizan · Post by **Burizan** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:31 pm

Thanks milney

I usually do question everything (simply through not knowing the intricacies of my opponents' armies) so people label me pedantic, even when I am right most of the time.

It seems to me one or two decent spells would crush the anvil. Still gonna be hard work for my magic heavy army (although I was in a position to get a first turn charge via steed of shadows on the very first turn having burned through all 8 of his dispel dice and all 3 dispel scroll in one turn)

I would no longer knock the idea of taking some magic firepower (maybe in the form of stones) so for at least one turn you can dominate and destroy the magic phase to take out the anvil (after which you will have more control in the magic phase anyway). Probably not the best from a winning perspective but hey, its fun.