How do Dragons and Manticores compair?
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
How do Dragons and Manticores compair?
I've settled on a monster based list and may even give myself the crutch of a no magic list. I was wondering now that the army book has book out for a good few months what most of you thought about the dragon and manticore heroes/lords.
At 2k+ how do these two monsters compare? I already have one manticore and am debating getting a second or a dragon. having a manticore on the lord saves a hero slot that the dragon would otherwise take and saves a few points. In the end, though, is the dragon worth its points and the hero slot in comparison?
At 2k+ how do these two monsters compare? I already have one manticore and am debating getting a second or a dragon. having a manticore on the lord saves a hero slot that the dragon would otherwise take and saves a few points. In the end, though, is the dragon worth its points and the hero slot in comparison?
- Deroth
- Assassin
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 11:49 am
- Location: Wellington/Auckland New Zealand
I would pay the extra points for a dragon because it is a much stronger option than a manticore and it also has a bigger psychological effect on the oponent knowing he has to face a dragon.
The dragon has higher toughness, strength, attacks and wounds which can make all the difference in a fight. It also has a pretty good armour save and a breath weapon which allows it to be more flexible in its use.
The dragon has higher toughness, strength, attacks and wounds which can make all the difference in a fight. It also has a pretty good armour save and a breath weapon which allows it to be more flexible in its use.
If I had a knife I would shoot you
-
- Assassin
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 2:13 am
Well if you're set on not using any magic at all then I would go with a DL on Dragon with a Master on a Manticore. That will take up all your hero slots.
However, if you want a scroll caddy in there go with two manticores instead. That lets you get another DD and a couple of scrolls.
My personal suggestion is that if you're aiming for a competitive list go with two manticores and a scroll caddy. Its worked well for me and hits almost as hard as the list with the dragon.
However, if you want a scroll caddy in there go with two manticores instead. That lets you get another DD and a couple of scrolls.
My personal suggestion is that if you're aiming for a competitive list go with two manticores and a scroll caddy. Its worked well for me and hits almost as hard as the list with the dragon.
- Comrade igor
- Daemon in Disguise
- Posts: 2101
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:13 pm
- Location: London, UK.
- Contact:
Even though I haven't tried my double manticore list (I should start to buy my 2nd manticore and paint the things I need) but I like the fact that I can have 2 big bad monsters with a scroll caddy, which will help a lot against heavy magic lists.
Also, yes the dragon is stronger but the KB ability of the Manticore isn't something to forget because it can cause lots of troubles to the opponent because of that.
Also, yes the dragon is stronger but the KB ability of the Manticore isn't something to forget because it can cause lots of troubles to the opponent because of that.
And the server wrote:Internal Server Error
I also like the point cost of the manti.
I am planning to field a master with Deathpiercer on a manti. so you get 7 WS 5+ re-roll hit attacks on charge with killing blow.
The only thing im afraid off is that it will die horribly fast
T5 4W , no save, large target... (The only save he gets is the 5+ from the rider who absorps his damage)
I have no idea how to protect this guy from shooting. The only option i could think of is getting him into CC very quickly!
Anyone who has experience with keeping a manti alive?
I am planning to field a master with Deathpiercer on a manti. so you get 7 WS 5+ re-roll hit attacks on charge with killing blow.
The only thing im afraid off is that it will die horribly fast
T5 4W , no save, large target... (The only save he gets is the 5+ from the rider who absorps his damage)
I have no idea how to protect this guy from shooting. The only option i could think of is getting him into CC very quickly!
Anyone who has experience with keeping a manti alive?
- Slortor
- Malekith's Personal Guard
- Posts: 924
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:22 pm
- Location: Rallying Team Druchii.net
I used a manti at the GT this weekend over the dragon (couldnt find the extra 120pts i needed) - he worked fine, only died in one game vs. dwarves (thorek twice, cannon and S7 BT... )
I was fielding a dreadlord with the ring of darkness, deathpiercer and the AoES - worked out quite well plus an SDC and Shield. The ring was great because the manticore was suddenly really quite hard to hit.
I'm not sure really - i really like the manti and the way it fits with my current list as i cant see how i'd get the extra points for the dragon. Only wish i could fail an uncontrollable rage test when i wanted it though...
I was fielding a dreadlord with the ring of darkness, deathpiercer and the AoES - worked out quite well plus an SDC and Shield. The ring was great because the manticore was suddenly really quite hard to hit.
I'm not sure really - i really like the manti and the way it fits with my current list as i cant see how i'd get the extra points for the dragon. Only wish i could fail an uncontrollable rage test when i wanted it though...
Name: Khalia D'Vaarko (meaning: Khalia, property of Vaarko)
Age: 210
Height/Weight: 5'6", 8 stone
Other: no distinguishing features, barring the brand of a great house left wrist.
Class: Mage
Equipment: Robes, Dagger, Staff
Skills: Power of Ulgu, Power of Chamon
Stats: Ws3, S3, T3, D4, I5
Age: 210
Height/Weight: 5'6", 8 stone
Other: no distinguishing features, barring the brand of a great house left wrist.
Class: Mage
Equipment: Robes, Dagger, Staff
Skills: Power of Ulgu, Power of Chamon
Stats: Ws3, S3, T3, D4, I5
lrnec wrote: Reality and truth is more brutal than almost any fantasy game
I like the Manticore because of the price point.
It is less killy then the dragon but generally I use it as a fast flanker and its enough to do the job. I generally have not had too much trouble with it getting shot to pieces because it is very manouverable and chillwind and my xbows also minimize that threat. Imagine my surprise though when I found out in the new book that it has killing blow and can go frenzy on ya...Yea baby.
It is less killy then the dragon but generally I use it as a fast flanker and its enough to do the job. I generally have not had too much trouble with it getting shot to pieces because it is very manouverable and chillwind and my xbows also minimize that threat. Imagine my surprise though when I found out in the new book that it has killing blow and can go frenzy on ya...Yea baby.
Anyone else find it kinda interesting that DE will not use gun powder because its unreliable but seem to have no problem using cold ones?
Thank you for your insight everyone and keep it coming. At sub 1500 I may forgo the monster all together but at 2k and up I want two still. The opinions seem split does anyone have anymore in depth reasons for choosing one over the other? The majority of armies at our local store are empire, vampies, daemons and dwarfs.
- Demetrius
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:36 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
At 1500 points, I take a Manticore. Master has full mundane armour and Sword of Battle, if I have points I give him Null Shard.
I use him as a flanker supported by 5 CoKs with Dread Knight. Will normally anihillate the flank they are on, then move accross to rip through the the main ranks of the enemy, while on the other flank, a Hydra and 5 Dark Riders have destroyed the other flank and moving in for the kill.
This tactic has worked wonders. Only been stopped by an unkillable Vampire combo and poor deployment on my behalf of the CoKs, effectively putting them out of the game.
I can't help you with over 1500 because I havn't played any games over it this Ed, and don't own a Dragon. At 2250 I'd throw in a Dreadlord on one though
I use him as a flanker supported by 5 CoKs with Dread Knight. Will normally anihillate the flank they are on, then move accross to rip through the the main ranks of the enemy, while on the other flank, a Hydra and 5 Dark Riders have destroyed the other flank and moving in for the kill.
This tactic has worked wonders. Only been stopped by an unkillable Vampire combo and poor deployment on my behalf of the CoKs, effectively putting them out of the game.
I can't help you with over 1500 because I havn't played any games over it this Ed, and don't own a Dragon. At 2250 I'd throw in a Dreadlord on one though
- Patrizzo
- Malekith's Personal Guard
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:27 pm
- Location: Malmö/Sweden
in the 2000p game you're talking about, where you want two flying big monsters, why don't you go for the supreme sorceress on a dragon and a master-bsb on a manticore? Then you get the best of all possible worlds. You get a dragon, you ger a medium magic phase, you get a bsb, you get a fast strong flanker, you get two monsters, and all you have to do is spend a lot of points for it.
Pulchritudo in oculis spectatore est ...
- Comrade igor
- Daemon in Disguise
- Posts: 2101
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:13 pm
- Location: London, UK.
- Contact:
Then you get the best of all possible worlds. You get a dragon, you ger a medium magic phase,
Thats the problem with that setup, medium magic phase just doesn't cut it these days. I say LvL4 on Dragon + lvl 2 or Dreadlord on Dragon + BSB master on manti.
Best Regards, Comrade Igor.
Where there's a Whip there's a Way
Where there's a Whip there's a Way
Comrade Igor wrote:Thats the problem with that setup, medium magic phase just doesn't cut it these days. I say LvL4 on Dragon + lvl 2 or Dreadlord on Dragon + BSB master on manti.
How about a Lvl 4 on manti , a master or BSB on manti and a lvl 2
It's alot of points but maybe someone has experience with this setup?
Manti is susceptible to Frenzy which could lead it to charge something that can easily kill your mega expensive sorceress
Yeah forgot about the frenzy thing.
Don't forget a lord on dragon takes up a lord and hero choice and a hero on manti takes up 2 hero slots. That all is taking the hero slot choices pretty damn low and taking up a lot of more points than dreadlords would?
Could you explain your comment further please i don't understand. (Srry english isnt my native language)
A supreme sorceress on a manti is just one hero slot
p91
.. a model on a black dragon = 1 additional hero choice..
.. a master (but not a dreadlord) on a manti = 1 aditional choice..
Sup Sorc is not mentioned here and so she doesnt take 1 additional slot.
But its a bad idea to put a sorc on a manti afterall...
p91
.. a model on a black dragon = 1 additional hero choice..
.. a master (but not a dreadlord) on a manti = 1 aditional choice..
Sup Sorc is not mentioned here and so she doesnt take 1 additional slot.
But its a bad idea to put a sorc on a manti afterall...