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SUAT vs. Orcs 
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Highborn
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:36 pm
Posts: 674
Played a game against my friends Orc infantry army. His list from memory was something like this.

Orc Shaman lvl 4 scroll, ?.
Goblin Shaman lvl 2 scroll, ?
BSB – not sure on the banner.

36 Orc Boyz FC
25 Orc Boyz FC
25 Orc Boyz FC
25 Big Un's FC
20 Night FC, Goblins 3 fanatics
20 Night FC, Goblins 2 Fanatics

10 Spider Riders
Rock Lobber
8 Squig Riders

Goblin Doom Diver

Mine is here

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=58108

Hopefully the pics came out viewable

I was initially intimidated by the size of his army. Lots and lots of models kept hitting the table. I had a pretty large army and I was still outnumbered 2 to 1. Terrain and deployment is obvious from the pics. I dropped the first unit and went first. I proxied some Mordheim models for Cauldron keepers and harpies.

Turn 1
Everything moves forward. DR, Witchelves, and Harpies move full speed. Everything else moves about 8” forward, CoK move maybe 9. Magic was ineffective but I got a scroll out of the lvl 2 mage at the cost of 2 warriors and shooting peeled 3 models off the Big Un's unit and an Orc Boyz Unit. Shades had moved to the edge of the woods and killed a Boy.

Orcs move forward with everything except a Boyz unit that squabbled on my right flank and Night Goblin Unit in front of his Rock Lobber, his large 36 man unit rolled a 6 and moved forward 1 extra inch. Squig Riders rolled really well and trickled out of his line an inch short of the CoK. Magic was ineffective after I burn a scroll and dispelled a ring and all other spells fail to go off. Doom Diver killed 2 DR's, Rock Lobber lands wide.

Turn 2
DE - Witches Charge the Squigs, and CoK charge the big 36 orc unit with lvl 4 mage. Corsairs move within shooting range of the Big Uns, Warriors and Shades stayed put, Cauldron moved forward, DR, and Harpies. Both Harpies go after war machines but get eaten by fanatics.
Magic & Shooting – I failed to cast PoD and got off Chill Wind to damage the rock lobber and stop it from shooting on his turn. Corsairs killed 4 Big Uns, RBT dusted another to to force a panic that he passed, the other RBT shot 3 Spider riders who also made their panic. CoB gave +1 attack to CoK.
H2H – CoK hit and wounded with nearly all their attacks and the Witch Elves vaporize the squig riders. Opponent losses combat with boys and runs 3" and are run down, witch elves over run into savage boys. Both of us kind of look at it in disbelief!
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/7 ... cT2cc.jpeg

Orcs – Big Uns charge my Corsairs who choose to stand and shoot and kill 4 more which causes them to panic and run. Boyz on my right wheel to protect them selves from DR, Shades, etc.. Spiders roll up on my other DR's flank. Everything else moves on up. Magic and shooting are ineffective although shooting from the Spider Riders sees a dead DR, Witch Elves slaughter Savage Boys and run them down slamming into Night Goblins behind them.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/7 ... GE_042.jpg

Turn 3
DE – Corsairs roll up to the goblins to shoot, CoK reform to get a rear charge at Boys on my right flank. DR continue to play dance with Spider Riders.
Sorceress gets off Word of Pain on the Night Goblins and Black Horror on the Boys taking off another rank. Shooting sees 6 dead spider riders and they flee. Corsairs kill 4 Goblins and CoB give WE 1 extra attack.
WE kill half the Goblins outright and run them off the table which panics the Doom Diver crew off the table. WE hit the war machine for the Spike!
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/7 ... GE_043.jpg


Orcs – Nothing rallies except Spider Riders. Night Goblins Charge Corsairs and lose another 4 to shooting and they pass panic test. Reforms his Boyz to face CoK. Magic is non existant as both casters are dead and Rock Lobber goes after Witches and went wide. Goblins lose 3 to combat and kill a Corsair in return and break from Combat
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/7 ... GE_044.jpg

Turn 4
DE – CoK charge Boys, Corsairs charge goblins and run them down. WE reform to go after Big Uns if they rally. Magic phase sees another Black Horror go off and a Doom Bolt which panics the Boys in front to the Warriors. CoB blesses the CoK again.
CoK do it again killing like 10 – 12 models and get no wounds in return.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/7 ... GE_045.jpg

Orc player concedes.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/7 ... GE_049.jpg

After Action thoughts

CoB, CoK and Witchelves were the real heroes here. CoK and witches each captured two banners. Corsairs performed as advertised but only captured 1 banner. I am really torn though on how to make any changes. I think the BSB's extra ballistic skill gave it the boost it needed to do so much damage in the shooting phase but on the other hand would an Assassin be better or maybe no character at all?

_________________
Anyone else find it kinda interesting that DE will not use gun powder because its unreliable but seem to have no problem using cold ones?


Last edited by Scipio on Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:40 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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Good report and nice photos indeed!

How did you uber unit perform? What did your opponent think about the unit?

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Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:03 am
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Highborn
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It performed as I thought it would and killed about 8 infantry a turn, caused the Big Uns w/ BSB to run and ran over top of a goblin unit.

That being said, I would be concerned to approach say chaos warriors or something on that level although I might win. I am thinking that combat wise you need a CoB in the area to deal with that type of threat.

More testing though in the end. I am not 100% sold that it is great.

I think my opponent was suprised as it was not as aggressive as the CoK and WE and those two units success over shadowed the Corsairs performance. This was one of those games were the dice favored me greatly so I kind of take it with a grain of salt.

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Anyone else find it kinda interesting that DE will not use gun powder because its unreliable but seem to have no problem using cold ones?


Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:38 am
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I've seen that you wrote that
Quote:
Night Goblins Charge Corsairs and lose another 4 to shooting and they pass panic test. Reforms his Boyz to face CoK. Magic is ineffective and Rock Lobber is goes after Witches and went wide. Goblins lose 3 to combat and kill a Corsair in return and break from Combat

was it bad luck or what? only 3 killed while attacking first with the bsb in?

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Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:29 am
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Highborn
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Yah, thats what concerns me. My BSB fluffed 2 out of 3 attacks even with re-rolls (I know it happens). If that were an elite infantry unit and the Corsairs failed to wound it would have been toast for me.

So now I am torn...Assassin looks like the better H2H choice but then I don't get the 4 shots at the superior BS. The 4th shooting casualty causes the panic check usually so its key to get all your shots in. I think I will play it as is for now but maybe pay more attention with the CoB.

Something I did not mention in the bat rep though. At the top of the 2nd rnd I revealed my assassin and ran him into the Corsair unit because I did not think the CoK would win against his largish Orc boyz unit. Then I ran him back in the 3rd round after the CoK crushed them. I guess I can always plan on running him over for backup.

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Anyone else find it kinda interesting that DE will not use gun powder because its unreliable but seem to have no problem using cold ones?


Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:02 am
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What about an assassin with rending stars and manbane? it could improve your shooting phase, even if it could be better forget the bsb, split the corsairs in two units and add another assassin with this set up. These are just to improve the shooting side, but at this point it could be better using a couple of shades units, but as I've understood you want also a reliable hth phase.

Edit: just an idea: assassin with double handbow, manbane, +D3 attacks and additional hand weapon. The manbane grants at least S4 on shooting and the bs9 is surely welcome. Then there is the Ap, it could be worth.

Returning on the whole unit I think that with this kind of list there is not much room for many other changes. Hero slots are full and if you want to take charges the hag graef banner is needed, so is needed the bsb. Armour piercing is surely in.

At least I'd consider having a death hag bsb, but in this case you loose 4 arrows gaining 5+D3 attacks and manbane with asf, so boosting your hth phase.

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Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:24 am
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Highborn
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Actually Manbane only effects the users strength so it would not help the rhb and I am not sure you can take a pair of handbows. If you read the Assassin entry it doesn't say (only one choice) like the Master entry does so maybe you can but the Master entry says "pair of ...rhb". Maybe a good FaQ question? If an Assassin can go 2 rhb this is a little better then the Master as he hits on 2+ no matter what and poison if you dont take Manbane.

I had thought about the Rending Star Combo but I am skeptical that he has enough attacks in hand to hand to stunt a significant charge. Still maybe with the CoB its enough and this is the way to go...he gets 5 attacks with the CoB bonus and rending stars are punishing. I could easily get enough casualties to cause a panic check before the charge.

Dropping the Master for the Death Hag might be a good way to go because essentially she can go to any of my units (and complete the WE unit of Doom I have been thinking of). The one problem however is with the way I am using the corsairs. Frenzy may be a problem...she might force the unit to charge.

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Anyone else find it kinda interesting that DE will not use gun powder because its unreliable but seem to have no problem using cold ones?


Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:56 am
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You're right... rendering stars are a thrown weapon, xbows not. I jumped too long... As you're right about the couple of handbows... this is why I never took them :-).

Your other analisys are correct. You could get to your assassin black poison: if the enemy reaches your unit, the assassin tries a challenge, doubling the wounds for the cr. If the enemy refuses he'll loose at least one attack, if accepts his champion is dead. Problems arise when he has got a tough armoured character in his unit, because the assassin without the Kb is quite useless in this case. Then the assassin means that you do not strike first with corsairs.

About the death hag. You could do a little dirty game with her. Take her behind the corsair unit, attacked to the bottom of it. When the enemy approaches you move your corsairs to shoot, then add the hag to the unit.: in this way you're not always forced to declare a charge, but at least you'll charge the next turn if the enemy didn't do it. This would grant you at least one turn of fire before any charge, while using the hag with the unit would forbid this option.

The weakness here is that you'll need to watch out from enemy flyers that could stop in the back of the hag, forcing her to charge.

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Last edited by Master of arneim on Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:16 am, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:36 pm
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Highborn
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I think I will try the Rending Star option since its seems very strong in the shooting phase and almost as strong in the H2H phase. We will see how it goes. I think I want to keep the master or if I dump him add a second assassin. BSB just seems more universally useful though.

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Anyone else find it kinda interesting that DE will not use gun powder because its unreliable but seem to have no problem using cold ones?


Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:48 pm
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