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The Cult of Pleasure - General Background issues 
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Executioner

Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:34 pm
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Gentlemen (and ladies, if you are here...).

At the moment, some of us/you are working on a new version of the CoP army list, and at this time, there are threads concerning both the army content, the magical items, special characters, and background. However, here's a question: How the heck can we really catch the essence of what the Cult of Pleasure is, if we haven't properly defined the very nature of the Cult, it's practices, it's function in Druchii society, and it's origins?
I'm sure that we have some common ideas, and I'm fairly certain that some things have been discussed in the initial thread on the whole CoP issue (I still haven't gotten through it all yet...). But right now, I'm missing a thorough debate on the whole nature of the Cult. And this I see as the whole foundation of all other work on the Cult.

One of the issues that I believe that we IMO need to address in detail, is the more precise relationship between the Druchii and Slaanesh/Atharti. The reason I believe that this is important, is that I think that it is too "easy" to think of Slaanesh in terms of how it is commonly described in the various armybooks. The books from Black Library on the nature of the various Chaos gods overtly suggests that the Elves' relationship with the Chaos gods is different than Humans relationship with the same gods. And this I find to be of utmost importance to focus on in the description of the Cult of Pleasure. Especially since this will be what will ultimately make the Cult stand out as something other then simply "those Chaos Elves...".

Once we have determined the nature of the Cult, the rest of the work on the army list and it's components should also be easier, as we then have a framework to fit things into. It should also make it easier for us to determine which items/gifts etc. that might or might not be appropriate to give the Cult access to.


/Kyrel


Last edited by Kyrel on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:58 pm
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This sort of thing was also proposed in the thread you can find a little further down the ideas page called something like "CoS, which way should the project go" but didn't get very far as I was the only one to reply to it. Oh well, this is the page now I guess.

My quick summary of what I have drawn up the Cult to be:

Essentially, while Morathi was with that Chaos warband, somehow Slaanesh got insider her head/mind/soul etc. and she saw the power that could be gained from such an "alliance". She hid this because of the Dark Elves primary duty to Khaine, but secretly taught some of her most trusted Sorceress Conventee's of Slaanesh. Slowly and hiding from the Khainites that would destroy them if they ever knew of their existence, the Cult Of Slaanesh was born and a very limited number of Elves were one by one introduced. The Cult grew, festering within Dark Elf society, a limited number of cultists secretly learning more and more of the deity to which they had commited themselves. Soon the cult became large enough that attention from the Witch Elves and Hags came upon this other religious group. To avoid being destroyed for heresy, the cult claimed that they were worshipping "Atharti", an already established lesser Dark Elf goddess. This mask maintained, the Cult continued its previous activities, more Dark Elves joining as the new ideas and self-indulging pleasure taking a hold. Slaanesh always knew of their existence, but didn't at first take much notice of them. The Cult became recognized by the god himself when Morathi swept up into the Chaos Wastes and gained the alliance of that Marauder tribe (was it the Hung?) and embarked upon the Storm of Chaos in his name. At this Slaanesh truly began to be interested in their affairs, and began to bless his new subjects with his Marks (in this case a change in mental or emotional state instead of a physical mark, especially as elves are resistant to disease and suchlike) and grant the Cult's sorceresses the ability to briefly summon small quantities of his Demonic units into reality, though the Sorcs never had any control over the Daemons actions except to let them slip back to the ether if they wanted.
At this, the Cult became truly known for what it was, and the followers of Khaine and the Witch King decried this heresy, sparking a civil war (and I have some ideas on a campaign for this, maybe some other time). Much energy was expended trying to curb the new religion but the Cult was spread far and deeply hidden, such that it survived most attempts at detection. Several temples etc. were raided, and the cult lost followers at the Witch King's opposition. However, most of the existing worshippers stayed faithful, and the Cult survived, sections maintaining a veil of "Atharti" and others hiding away.

The Anointed fit in somewhere as wandering in the Chaos wastes, converting to the Cult when they heard of its existence, and bringing with them a VERY FEW of their mortal warband/bodyguard.

The Cult is still mostly formed of Dark Elves (devoted being the elite of the cult's convertees) and Marauders of the Hung tribe dedicated to Slaanesh and lead by the Sorceresses, with occasional Anointed and their bodyguard or some demons that the cult's sorcs had summoned. That was my view of it anyway.

In terms of the god/elf relationship, I'm not sure what you (Kyrel) mean about its different from human/god relationship (sacrifices to god, god grants better physical abilities etc., worshipping of god in temple?).

I see the elves as following Slaanesh due to the extreme sensations that devotion can bring them, and Slaanesh in turn warps their thinking such that they crave the feelings (a loop). They gather for their ceremonies and instead of doing the Khaine thing and just killing lots of stuff, they engage in pleasure filling activites, believing that these activities are the way they can exalt Slaanesh, as he is a pleasure god engaging in pleasurable activities is showing devotion to his ideals(?). Well, something to that effect.

Note that I have based all of this purely on what I thought of the Cult, I have read little of the original stuff, and also know little of Morathi's background or the bits mentioned about the Cult hiding out in Ulthuan after the Sundering, and due to my limited knowledge have left those out, but in future might modify this to include them.

MA

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Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:56 am
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Executioner

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I'm a little busy for the moment, so I haven't got the time to get properly into answering my own question right now, but I'll get back to it as soon as I can.

MA:
"In terms of the god/elf relationship, I'm not sure what you (Kyrel) mean about its different from human/god relationship (sacrifices to god, god grants better physical abilities etc., worshipping of god in temple?)."

What I'm thinking of is what's described in the Liber Chaotica - Khorne and Slaanesh books from Black Library. Basically there's an entire chapter (6 pages) devoted to the Elven relationship with Slaanesh, and the book on Khorne contains 2 pages devoted to Khaine: Lord of Murder. I don't have the time to go into detail right now, but I'll get back to it as soon as I can. Basically I believe that it opens up for some interesting possibilities, which I think are worth a discussion.

/Kyrel


Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:39 pm
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Martial Artist summed it all up fairly well, really. And as for the elven worship to human worship, I think it refers to elves doing far more circuitous and complex rituals compared to humans. Probably due to their lifespan, they can make rituals last decades (if they were so inclined) which would naturally result in a much more meticulous ritual than humans could.

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Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:26 pm
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@Kyrel: I wasn't aware of elven fluff in LC:Slaanesh. Don't know what exactly is there (PM you about that ;) ), but it might be of big meaning, as we don't have much otherwise in the way of official CoS fluff



@MartialArtist: While I agree on most of what you've written in 'contemporary Cult' part of your summary, but you've got quite a few things off in 'history of the Cult' part (I hope it's clear which part is which). If you wish to develope background more deeply, make sure you know at least the easily available parts first. Please don't take it personal - I simply believe this way we can avoide whole lot of discussion and re-writing of CoS fluff later on.

I'll post a brief summary of official parts of Cult's history (and few other facts from elven history to give it some placement) below, the details can be found in HE and DE ABs (5th ed HE AB would be better than 7th ed one, but that's just about few details - will try to include them in summary).


History of the Cult
The way I see it, history of CoS can be divided into 5 parts:

I. Roots of the Cult - First war with Chaos
- Aenarion draws Sword of Khaine

- about 9 years later he saves Morathi from Chaos daemons ('Slaaneshii warband' in 5th ed)

- 3 years later Malekith is born

- about 40 years later the first war with Chaos ends; Aenarion is dead


II. Pre-sundering Cult
- About a 1000 years after war 'The Cult begins its slow spread through Nagarythe and across all Ulthuan'

- before and after that the elves are keeping contact with dwarves; it's also the time of glorious deeds and adventures of 'Malekith the Great' as he was then known among HE

- About 1650 years after the war 'Malekith returns from Ulthuan and denounces his own mother as a Slaanesh worshipper. The Cult of Pleasure is revealed as being secretly given over to the worship of Slaanesh,' (this comes from 5th ed HE timeline; 7th ed timeline is shorter, with 'Cult of Pleasure' in place of 'Slaanesh' and without second sentence.)

- Malekith hunts out cults of pleasure (or 'Cult of Pleasure' in 6th ed and befor) followers, sending them north and soon also declares that Phoenix King is one of them

- the whole hunting thing turns out to be a fake - in true, Morathi and Malekith colaborated; the 'captured' cultist, together with Dark Magic practicioners bolstered Nagarythe forces which attack other Elf Kingdoms

-the massacre at the Shirne of Asuryan results in Phoenix King dead and Malekith burned by the Fire of Asuryan.

- Elf home war rages on, resulting finally in Sundering; remnants of Malekith's followers head north; from now to be can called Druchii; some of them go into Chaos Wastes (will become Anointed in the future)


III. Post-sundering Cult
- HE-DE war is on

- Morathi sends expeditions into Chaos Wastes to seek out artefacts of the Dark Gods and to observe changes in Chaos energy

- Morathi commaned a great tower to be built in the north - Ghrond. Given reason is to safely observe changes in Chaos energy. The Convent of Sorceresses is founed

- Politics and infighting become rife in Naggarond; about a 1000 years after the Sundering, one of the many pleasure cults - the Khainites, come to power and dominates all other

- rather than quell their excesses, Malekith sought to focus devotion of these elves and turn it to his own ends. He proclaimes himself a mortal incarnation of Khaine and swores undying devotion to him in the Shrine of Naggarond; Morathi gifts Cult of Khaine with Cauldrons of Blood.

- Cult of Slaanesh remains in society, altough hidden (this piece of info is from SoC fluff)

- Thru agents, cults of pleasure inflitrate HE society and spread within it


IV. The Cult during Storm of Chaos
- Morathi decides it is a time for Cult of Slaanesh to rise again

- she deals a pact with Hung marauders and summons daemonetees to help them kill their enemies (other marauder tribes' chiefs)

- she goes south with her armies to seek artefacts in the jungles of the south


V. Post-SoC Cult (contemporary Cult)
- This one is fully on us ;)


So, the most importat things are IMO:
- the Cult was there before Druchii as Druchii began to exist
- it's more Khaine-CoS conflict than Malekith-CoS; even if Malekith won't openly show his aprooval, sure thing is he won't work against his mother's creation (unless _she_ wants it ;) )
- cult's posion in the society is upon us, as in 6th ed and before it was present (and tolerated I believe) at first and hidden later, when Khaine's cult came to power (quite a long time of DE history before that); anway, due to SoC now it's in the open again and its presence it most probably a big political issue in Naggaroth.


BTW I believe the Anointed were 'made to hear' by Morathi (as in: she found them and persuaded or made sure they know about the Cult and let them think it's purley their decision to join it)




My 'contemporary cult' comments are:
- summoning daemons by all Warhammer background I know are made to listen to their summoners, lest they try to hurt them. While Sorceresses might rely on Slaanesh to eliminate the risk of being killed by freshly summoned daemon, I don't believe they would risk summoning without control over what they summon.

- I see no way a Chaos god (or any warhammer god for that matter... not that there's much difference ;) ) could be unaware of his followers, or even of those who praise him unwillingly (like taking part in an orgy) - it's those acts and emotions they sprout that keep Warhammer gods in existence.

- If Warhammer elves are anything like WH40 Eldar in regards of psyche, they have excess 'written into their nature' - while HE avoid this being a problem by supreme discipline, DE enjoy it... it's simply that current prominent way of excess in DE society is killing. ;) Although some want their own way, giving more varied feelings - and those get into CoS ulitmately.

- Still curios as what LB fluff can bring into our discussion.


Last edited by Weenth on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:31 am
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Whos actually heading up the cult-list revival?

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:37 am
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almundis wrote:
Whos actually heading up the cult-list revival?


'heading up'='leading', right? (English is not my primary language)
If so it's heat-13, although he hasn't been posting anything here for a while.
(heat-13, do you read us? ;) )


Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:08 am
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I shall keep my eyes peeled for his activity.

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:09 am
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Hmmmm.

"- summoning daemons by all Warhammer background I know are made to listen to their summoners, lest they try to hurt them. While Sorceresses might rely on Slaanesh to eliminate the risk of being killed by freshly summoned daemon, I don't believe they would risk summoning without control over what they summon."

They have some control, but are still relying on Slaanesh's goodwill (maybe the demons summoned by another sorc could come kill a miscreant summoner...).

"- I see no way a Chaos god (or any warhammer god for that matter... not that there's much difference ) could be unaware of his followers, or even of those who praise him unwillingly (like taking part in an orgy) - it's those acts and emotions they sprout that keep Warhammer gods in existence. "

Maybe I phrased that badly (somewhere?). Slaanesh knew that they existed, but rather at first decided that they were less than worthy of his attention and so didn't give them more than a passing thought. He was later suprised and excited at their growth. :D

Under Pre sundering, so Malekith decried and "captured" a whole load of cultists really so he and Morathi could turn them into his army to start the sundering war (as the cultists already were loyal to Morathi)? Sounds like the sort of thing they'd do...

Thanks for the more "historical" or "official" view of the Cult Weenth!

Good that I could have some useful input in something a little outside my knowledge...

MA

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:16 am
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MartialArtist wrote:
[on Sorceresses summoning daemons]
They have some control, but are still relying on Slaanesh's goodwill (maybe the demons summoned by another sorc could come kill a miscreant summoner...).
Sounds fine to me.

MartialArtist wrote:
Slaanesh knew that they existed, but rather at first decided that they were less than worthy of his attention and so didn't give them more than a passing thought. He was later suprised and excited at their growth. :D
I'd see that a little bit different, but thats more on my personal view about Slaanesh-Cult relation, than on any existing fluff. ;)

I've got some ideas, inspired mostly by Liber Chaotica & WFRP fluff and also Eldar in 40K (especially as they are the ones who unwillingly brought Slaanesh into existence), have no time to focus on them now, but I'll try to sort them out and post by the end of the week.

MartialArtist wrote:
Under Pre sundering, so Malekith decried and "captured" a whole load of cultists really so he and Morathi could turn them into his army to start the sundering war (as the cultists already were loyal to Morathi)? Sounds like the sort of thing they'd do...
That's what 7th ed DE AB says about it, and in quite open text too. My reflection on latest fluff is that although I dislike how they changed all Slaaneshi fragments of background to general 'cults of excess', I do like the way Morathi and - especially - Malekith are shown as manipulative at the religious level as much as political (even Cauldrons of Blood background is written in such way, that for a moment I toyed around with idea of them being Slaaneshi artefacts - young&beautiful effect, etc... but that would be too much of a heresy ;) )


Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:38 pm
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Ok, finally got time to write my ideas down. As it’s a compilation of existing official, semi-official and unofficial fluff, as well as my own ideas, I marked parts of text differently for a sake of clarity:

- white text – official fluff – sources such as Armybooks or WFRP rulebook with info given as objective facts; most of it is probably well known to you, but I decided to include it to show what I base on

- yellow text – subjective fluff – generally background described from in-world perspective (such as Liber Chaotica, which is supposedly written by Old World scholars); also unofficial background given either in objective or subjective form (such as previous CoS fluff by people from druchii.net) and all WH40K fluff (as current GW position is the two are parallel universes and not linked, even though some parts of LC, description of Chaos gods in both system, etc. might suggest differently)
I tried to keep in line with these, though having in mind they might be wrong either because contradict newer fluff (eg. Earlier Development of CoS on druchii.net vs. introduction of Cytharai in 7th ed DE AB) or ‘subjective author’ might have limited knowledge (eg. Claim that Khaine and Khorne are one deity in LC)


- cyan text – my own ideas; propositions for new/developed background in plain text, comments and alternate versions in italics

I also divided text in three main parts, dealing with:
- ‘methaphysics’ of Warhammer – especially nature of elven deity worship and Slaanesh vs Atharti relation
- history of the Cult of Pleasure – trying to tie together older fluff of Cult of Pleasure/Slaanesh with 7th ed Cults of Excess/Cytharai
- ‘contemporary’ Cult – my ideas of what might happened to Cult after Storm of Chaos events




I. Nature of elven worship and of their deities

1. Nature of Chaos, elven and other deities
Fluff used: original background from 3th ed Realms of Chaos; also some facts from the most up to date version I have access to - this comes from Tuomas Pirinen, whom I had a chance to speak to soon after publishing of 6th ed

- Gods and daemons are beings of Warp (Void, Aether, Warpspace or whatever ;) ) – parallel universe built of what in material world is called magical energy and is structured and shaped by thoughts and emotions of creatures of material world; the more advanced creature, the more (usually unintentional) influence its mind has on the Warp

- So warp beings are representatives of mortal’s emotions and thought – if enough of similar emotions influence the Warp, the part (sphere of space) of the Warp gains conciousness

- now, this can be seen in metaphore of mathematical/logical sets

- the bigger set, the bigger power&more sentient being; ‘bigger’ might mean more universal/broad set of ideas/emotions, but also emotions/beliefs coming from more/more advanced creatures; hence gods’ need for followers

- all of these deities are, in a way, Chaos Gods, as all of them exist in Warp; though some are more seemingly more ordered and limited (due to beliefs and number of their followers) in their power – those are gods like Sigmar, Grungni or Asuryan; other are more unpredictable and powerfull – most notably ‘the big 4’: Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh

- those sets might also include other sets or have common part with them

- If a deity (set) is fully included in another deity, then it is it’s aspect – as Stormfels (pirates’ god of reefs and sea currents) is an aspect of Manann (human god of seas and oceans)
Wether these have separate conciousness and are aware of having/being an aspect is not said; I believe ‘larger’ deity is always aware of its aspect, and ‘aspect god’, while having a separate conciousness might be aware of its nature or not – depending on followers’ beliefs

-If a deity (set) has a common part with another deiety, then it is not an aspect – they are both separate gods, with separate ‘minds’, although worship of one does give some power to the other as well. The example given being Khorne and Khaela Mensha Khaine.
I believe this is true for all elven gods and their human counterparts, as race differences in psyche make it impossible to include one ‘set’ in another

- I also believe all Cytharai, as gods of excess – while being separate deieties - have some common part with Slaanesh, in some cases small to a level of unimportance (Khaine), in others bigger - most notably Atharti



2. Nature of elven deity worship
Fluff used: HE, DE, WE armybooks, 2nd ed WFRP and Liber Chaotica

- elves (next to dwarfs and lizardmen - although) are a race, who had a chance to develope their beliefs without interference of gods themselves (so the way it is in our world, not the Discworld way ;) )

- when dimentional gates were destroyed elves were already quite aware of nature of magic, gods and daemons and the way they interact with intellect and emotions

- due to this their worship is different from the human way of it – more individualised and also more symbiotic relationship with ‘ordered’ Chaos beings (elven deities); their knowledge also allows them to control many of lesser Chaos beings (sprites, faeries, imps, some daemons)

- this is also the reason elven magic-users have more to do with deity worship than their human counterparts. WFRP goes even as far as stating that there are no elven priests as such, although I believe that sentence goes to Wood Elves specifically, as there are at least HE priest mentioned in other official background

- The way I see it, even if an elf devotes himself to one god, it is more akin to swearing allegiance to a powerful mortal lord/ruler in human terms.

- What some elves do not realise (or rather – forget in their pride and arrogance) is that there are gods too powerful for them to deal in such way. If not strong of will and cunning enough, a devotee might find himself bound to such god more than he willingly would.


- Slaanesh is the god most fitted for that, as his aim on intense experiences goes very well along great ability for them tha all elves posses... it is almost as if Slaanesh himself was made to resemble dark side of elven soul (not that anyone would think that elves or like-elf beings had anything to with Slaanesh's 'birth' as sentient entiety ;) )

- Of course even that is a time-taking process, but an intelligent and manipulative elf might lure her kin into such trap… and so it starts:



I. History of Cult of Slaanesh
Fluff used: HE & DE armybooks, Storm of Chaos, also previous texts on CoS fluff by druchii.net authors, to be found in Druchii Herald from July 04(html versions can be found in the links Voodoo master gave in SoC Special Characters topic;
as a side note – I do like the way Darkprincess and Shadowspite developed CoS background (things like Death Night being a khainite way of dealing with Cult of Pleasure); it would need some tweaking to bring it in line with 7th ed (as Har Ganeth and not Ghrond is now centre of Khaine cult, also there is whole Cults of Excess issue, etc), but together with official fluff on CoS it gives us a reasonable amount of background.
As a summary of history of Cult as given in official fluff is only few posts above, below I've put only few pieces of it, filled in with fluff coming either from Druchii Herald or my attempts at bringing it all together.



1. Roots of the Cult - First war with Chaos
- Aenarion saves Morathi from Chaos daemons ('Slaaneshii warband' in 5th ed)

- The corrupted she-elf knows of the power Slaanesh can bestow upon her, but is also aware of the risk; therefore she allows herself to ‘be saved’ by Anearion in order to seek out another way of gaining power than sacrificing her own soul. Maybe she already made a pact, that she would gain power for other elven souls she could bring to Slaanesh, maybe that appeard sometime later in her mind.


2. Pre-sundering Cult
- About a 1000 years after war 'The Cult begins its slow spread through Nagarythe and across all Ulthuan'

- This started at first with Morathi seeking out excitement in her life by embracing many fledling religious cults; she moved from one to another, rarely staying active within one dor more than few years.
This however, was not only for her own pleasure, but also to look around and find out in whom lies the seed of decadence and in what way she can bring those elves into worship of Dark Prince.

- Morathi decides to found her own cult. She and her followers offer thanks to Cadai (such as Lileath in her aspect as Goddess of Dreams and Isha as the Harvest Goddess representing ferility) for all things pleasureable

- slowly Morathi broadens the limits of pleasure to be embraced thanked for; sadistic and masochist elements become part of the rituals


- Morathi starts to include worship of Cytharai in her cult’s rituals; this includes worship of Khaine, as even though he doesn’t fit her aim so much, his cult is already quite strong among Aenarion’s kinmen of Nagarythe; she belives its better to use it than have it against her

- Giving thanks to so many of elven gods leads to some conflicts within the cult, as some believe one god to be worthier than other; a series of schisms causes the rise of separate Cults of Excess; Morathi is pleased – it goes well with her plan, as she would no longer be linked with schizmatics and their decadent deeds would still give some power to Slaanesh. For herself she keeps leadership of Atharti followers, as she believes they will serve her further plans best


- yet not all goes well, as Khain cult has a strong leader – the Witch Hellebron, who seems to aim her energy against Atharti followers at most;fighting between cultist starts.

- Meanwhile Morathi ‘lets her faithful cultist into a true secret’ – she tells them that goddess they follow is but an aspect of a far greater entiety – ‘She, Who Thirsts’, Slaanesh; and tells them, that she chose them as most faithful and acute to follow the true Dark Goddess (or Dark Prince, as this deity knows no limits of pleasure, even such as gender), wich will gain them more both in terms of power and pleasure to experience.

- Malekith hunts out cults of pleasure followers, sending them north and soon also declares that Phoenix King is one of them

- Elf home war rages on, resulting finally in Sundering; remnants of Malekith's followers head north; from now to be can called Druchii; some of Morathi’s followers go into Chaos Wastes (will become Anointed in the future)


3. Post-sundering Cult

- Politics and infighting become rife in Naggarond; about a 1000 years after the Sundering, one of the many pleasure cults - the Khainites, come to power and dominates all other .Khainites tolerate worship of other gods, as long as each Druchii pays enough homage to Khaine as well.

- rather than quell their excesses, Malekith sought to focus devotion of these elves and turn it to his own ends. He proclaimes himself a mortal incarnation of Khaine and swores undying devotion to him in the Shrine of Naggarond; Morathi gifts Cult of Khaine with Cauldrons of Blood.
...as she wants some power other the khainite, to protect her Slaaneshi cultist when they arise again

- Cult of Slaanesh remains in society, altough hidden
...as Atharti followers

- Hellebron suspect that cultists Morathi leads debased into worship of a Chaos deity, but cannot proove that enough to act openly.
She doesn’t have enough power to confront mother of the Witch King. Yet Hellebron uses the Death Night to seek out and eliminate her opponets under.

- Meanwhile in the hidden Palace of Infinite Pleasure (known also as the Tower of Blood), Morathi’s right hand in the Cult – Lonicera, prepares Cult’s army



4. The Cult during Storm of Chaos

- Morathi decides it is a time for Cult of Slaanesh to rise again

- she deals a pact with Hung marauders and summons daemonetees to help them kill their enemies (other marauder tribes' chiefs)

-Although Morathi does not commit either to Slaanesh worshiping or to indulging any ‘true Druchii’ in her army into such a thing, she does openly ally with Slaanesh followers, including now visibly corrupted Anointed. She allows herself into such open acting beacause of acceptance of Witch King and the fact that her army will head outside of Naggaroth and this way also outside of khainite sphere of influence



III.Cult of Slaanesh today
So here we are… I believe there are two main things to decide as to what happened after SoC:

1.What was the effect of jungle expedition?
-If none (as in: no artefacts), Malekith might not be pleased with Morathi’s actions. I’d go with this one.

Other options are:
- If the Cult won any important artefacts from lizardmen, item/s with such background should be included in Magic Item list.
-Of course there is still option of claiming that some of original 7th ed DE AB items are taken from lizardmen – although not sure if fluff of any of them allows that.


Anyway, another topic is:


2.Where did the Cult’s army head afterwards and what effect did that have?

a) Morathi might try to keep her force outside of Naggaroth, as not to confront Cult of Khaine and probably also seek artefacts in other places. This would be further reasoned in case she got nothing from lizardman – as she doesn’t want to return with empty hands.
I like this option most, as it gives background for battles with varied enemies; with 6th ed CoS fluff enemies other than lizardmen, Chaos or regluar DE were hard to explain

b)Mortathi might return to Naggaroth and is ready to confront Cult of Khaine there.
I believe this would be the reason to create Khaine vs Slaanesh campaign; still I think this would work best with 'a' option as ‘present background’ and Cult of Khaine confrontation variant as an option to be used in players' games; otherwise the sole enemy of CoS army should be DE.

c)Also, Morathi might disband her army and return to Naggaroth, with her Druchii cultists trying to hide back in society.
I dislike such option, as though Morathi with her position might get away with this, her followers are now easy to indentify and likely to be hit hard during nearest Death Night. Also this would realistically mean no CoS army at all, and even if – without anointed, marauders or other hard to hide elements, and again – fluff wise DE should be only opponent




So that's what I came up with. Waiting for comments. :)


Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:18 pm
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Hmmm. I can't comment that much, as I'm not a huge reader of the background and don't have solid things of where stuff in Warhammer fits togethor, so as you seem more of a fluff person I'm happy to agree with what you said, and let someone else fight it out if that needs be.

I am however interested in the Cult today bit, as there I can contribute a little.

Weenth wrote:
a) Morathi might try to keep her force outside of Naggaroth, as not to confront Cult of Khaine and probably also seek artefacts in other places. This would be further reasoned in case she got nothing from lizardman – as she doesn’t want to return with empty hands.
I like this option most, as it gives background for battles with varied enemies; with 6th ed CoS fluff enemies other than lizardmen, Chaos or regluar DE were hard to explain

b)Mortathi might return to Naggaroth and is ready to confront Cult of Khaine there.
I believe this would be the reason to create Khaine vs Slaanesh campaign; still I think this would work best with 'a' option as ‘present background’ and Cult of Khaine confrontation variant as an option to be used in players' games; otherwise the sole enemy of CoS army should be DE.


I'm interested in this bit because I have been working on the Cult and Khaine campaign, at the moment just a bunch of random scenarios and stuff that I thought could work but once I can get it togethor I'll post it up and see what people think and maybe get some help filling in the background parts.

I'd stick with A, but would add that while Morathi leaves her now unveiled Cultists outside Naggaroth and uses them to try to plunder treasures/gold etc. to increase the power of the Cult, that she is simultaneously not letting the Cult die out within the DArk Elf regions themselves and is recruiting new cultists and stuff from the DE population, perhaps once more under the guise of Atharti. It is like the rebirth of the Cult, but this time all of the infrastructure (temples, dedicated priests etc.) are already there. THus the Cult grows inside Naggaroth, where they wage a guerilla war against the Khainites [this is my backstory for the campaign] (and provide a recruiting ground for the raiding), and outside where they plunder foreign lands for treasure. Also here maybe the option for the Cult to then spread undercover throughout the Empire and such too......

Thus Morthai hopes to eventually become more powerful than the Khainites by expanding her Cult to a global scale (Khainite worship is only with the DE as far as I know, assuming Khaine isn't Khorne) and getting a higher income (concentrated and planned plundering, where as Khainites get funded not sure by what (maybe DE taxes or something?) but it would only be within Naggaroth).

As you can see I have plenty of gaps in my knowledge, and that's fine as its not my particular field of interest, but I do want the campaign to be explainable....

MA

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Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:57 am
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1st:
Weenth. Nice summoning up on the cult issues :)

2nd:
I must admit that in general I like the fluff written by Darkprincess and Shadowspite, but there are a few things that I would change, in light of the direction GW has taken the background in 7th ed. Specifically I would change the focus from Slaanesh to Atharti. Arguably this is controversial, but I don’t think that it would be without merit for several reasons.

Going by the Liber Chaotica books, the elves as such don’t worship gods in the sense that their gods are individual beings with their own goals and ideals. Rather they worship the concepts that the different gods represent. Khaine thus represents war, murder, aggression etc., and Atharti represents a variety of pleasure providing things like art, music, dance, creativity, philosophy etc. Worshipping in this way allows the elves to arguably worship what one could say is chaos gods, without actually worshiping them. That sounds a little strange, but think of it this way: One can appreciate the Ten Commandments from the Bible (i.e. Do not kill & Do not steal), and live in accordance with them, but one can do this without having to believe in what the rest of the bible says (i.e. Jesus walking on water and raising the dead). Taking this approach to elven worship would allow us to basically let the Dark Elves worship a broad spectrum of what Slaanesh stand for, but just let them do so through the elven god of Atharti (and on some occasions, perhaps also Slaanesh directly). Depending upon the level of devotion to the concepts Atharti represents, and which Slaanesh includes, a member of the Cult of Pleasure could “unwittingly” end up drawing the attention of the Chaos God Slaanesh upon him or her. Given that the individual’s worship arguably is indirect however (worship of the concepts and Atharti, but which also strengthen Slaanesh), Slaanesh can not provide the worshipper with the same kind of boons that a true/direct follower of Slaanesh might gain. But some boons might be granted (i.e. the equivalent of a Mark of Slaanesh, though this “Mark” might also be attained by simply having no fear of anything whatsoever. Something that one could argue that a Dark Elf who is truly devoted to the concept of all sensation being a positive experience, whether it’s pleasurable or painful, might be able to achieve on his/her own).

But if Slaanesh does not or can not directly gift the elves of the Cult of Pleasure with boons, and if the Druchii actually worship Atharti, why are there then Daemons of Slaanesh in the Cult army? Well, Daemons of Slaanesh basically represent some of the aspects of Slaanesh given physical form. Some of the aspects being represented by the Daemons, can easily be concepts that are mirrored within the worship of Atharti, and thus a follower of Atharti gains the ability to summon up Daemons that represent these concepts. Incidentally, since the concepts are the same, the Daemon that comes out of the summoning, is also identical.

Finally, if we take this approach to the fluff, we stay closer to the 7th ed. fluff and approach to the elven deities, IMO we don’t really loose anything, we can still defend having a link to Slaanesh, and finally we prevent turning the Druchii of the Cult of Pleasure into “those chaos elves…”, which I’d rather avoid. By taking my suggested road above, I’d even argue that we actually get to make the Cult more interesting, since it becomes different and more distinct from other “chaos worshipping” cults and societies, which I would consider to be a good thing.

I’ll add further comments as I get more time.

/Kyrel


Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:01 pm
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Weenth wrote:
III.Cult of Slaanesh today
So here we are… I believe there are two main things to decide as to what happened after SoC:

1.What was the effect of jungle expedition?
-If none (as in: no artefacts), Malekith might not be pleased with Morathi’s actions. I’d go with this one.

Other options are:
- If the Cult won any important artefacts from lizardmen, item/s with such background should be included in Magic Item list.
-Of course there is still option of claiming that some of original 7th ed DE AB items are taken from lizardmen – although not sure if fluff of any of them allows that.


Anyway, another topic is:


2.Where did the Cult’s army head afterwards and what effect did that have?

a) Morathi might try to keep her force outside of Naggaroth, as not to confront Cult of Khaine and probably also seek artefacts in other places. This would be further reasoned in case she got nothing from lizardman – as she doesn’t want to return with empty hands.
I like this option most, as it gives background for battles with varied enemies; with 6th ed CoS fluff enemies other than lizardmen, Chaos or regluar DE were hard to explain

b)Mortathi might return to Naggaroth and is ready to confront Cult of Khaine there.
I believe this would be the reason to create Khaine vs Slaanesh campaign; still I think this would work best with 'a' option as ‘present background’ and Cult of Khaine confrontation variant as an option to be used in players' games; otherwise the sole enemy of CoS army should be DE.

c)Also, Morathi might disband her army and return to Naggaroth, with her Druchii cultists trying to hide back in society.
I dislike such option, as though Morathi with her position might get away with this, her followers are now easy to indentify and likely to be hit hard during nearest Death Night. Also this would realistically mean no CoS army at all, and even if – without anointed, marauders or other hard to hide elements, and again – fluff wise DE should be only opponent



As for what happened with the Lustria expedition, I must admit that I can’t remember how Dark Elves actually fared in Lustria during the Storm of Chaos. Optimally I’d like to stay somewhat true to the results of that event. Ultimately, the end of the fluff issue concerning the Dark Elves civil war was (as far as I recall at least) that Malekith basically told Morathi and Hellebron to bury the hatchet and go back to their state of “Cold War”. I’d prefer to keep this piece of fluff intact, as IMO Malekith needs/wants both of these two characters to be around, as they on some level check each other’s powers, and each command a significant part of the Druchii nation. Between the two of them and Malekith, I’d argue that they have both the Cult of Pleasure, the Cult of Khaine, the Sorceresses, and the regular nobles pretty well under control. (It just struck me though that the fluff I refer to above could have been something that was created here on druchii.net in relation to the “Civil War” campaign that was run on the site following the Storm of Chaos. I can’t recall it though.)

As for what Morathi got out of the campaign in Lustria, I’d like her to have gotten something out of the troubles (if nothing else, the destruction of a fair number of Chaos Marauders, which otherwise would be threatening the northern boarder of Naggarroth…). Picking this option would also provide us with a good excuse for making up a couple of new suitable magic items for the Cult, and not just rely on the regular Dark Elf and Chaos lists. Basically I think that this opportunity is just too good to pass over.

With regards to what the Cult did after the campaign in Lustria, I’m actually most fond of your option ‘C’. Initially I believe that Morathi would have returned from the campaign in Lustria, and her return with an army of the Cult of Pleasure would likely have sparked some open battles between the Khainites and the Cult army. Those battles would likely have been bloody, and might ultimately have destabilised the entire kingdom, which is why Malekith intervened and told the parties to cease the fighting and return to the way things were, prior to the Storm of Chaos. Now, you could argue that the Druchii who followed Morathi to war in Lustria might now be compromised, and that come the next Death Night, they would likely be killed. However, why would that be the case? Morathi and Hellebron has been commanded to cease the overt hostilities, so for that reason alone I’d say that Hellebron might well “balance her interests” in this regard. She is unlikely to want to openly defy Malekith and risk some sort of censure. Also, why should the Druchii that went to war with Morathi necessarily stand out much more than their neighbours? How many thousands of Druchii went to war with Morathi? Were all of the Druchii in that army practicing members of the Cult of Slaanesh? Or were a part of them simply following orders and marching to war, because Morathi commanded it? Also, did anyone actually make the effort to sit down and make note of who these individuals were? And given Morathi’s political and magical power, combined with those of the other Cult members, wouldn’t it be a realistic guess that a good part of the Cult followers would be able to avert any such lists? I’d argue that it would be quite possible, and that it the disappearance of such lists might even make the basis for an interesting piece of fiction (Hellebron discovers that the lists have disappeared, during the preparations for Death Night).

With regards to the Marauders and Chaos Warriors that marched with Morathi into Lustria, then I’ve argued before that they should play second fiddle in the army list, and stay out of the Core entries. The easiest way to explain what happened to them, would be to simply let a large part of them have been slain in Lustria (Morathi used them as cannon fodder), and the rest of them ought to have been returned north to the Chaos Wastes where they normally make their homes. Morathi can probably still call on some of the surviving tribes, but not in the numbers that she could during the Storm of Chaos.


/Kyrel


Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:29 pm
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http://www.druchii.net/monthly/issues/d ... june06.pdf
http://www.druchii.net/monthly/issues/dherald-05-07.pdf

do not forget the civil war (which was recognized by GW at the time)


also, more background for you
http://www.druchii.net/monthly/issues/d ... uary06.pdf

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:35 am
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Kyrel wrote:
1st:
Specifically I would change the focus from Slaanesh to Atharti. Arguably this is controversial, but I don’t think that it would be without merit for several reasons.


That indeed is controvertial. ;) Details below.

Kyrel wrote:
Going by the Liber Chaotica books, the elves as such don’t worship gods in the sense that their gods are individual beings with their own goals and ideals. Rather they worship the concepts that the different gods represent. Khaine thus represents war, murder, aggression etc., and Atharti represents a variety of pleasure providing things like art, music, dance, creativity, philosophy etc. Worshipping in this way allows the elves to arguably worship what one could say is chaos gods, without actually worshiping them. That sounds a little strange, but think of it this way: One can appreciate the Ten Commandments from the Bible (i.e. Do not kill & Do not steal), and live in accordance with them, but one can do this without having to believe in what the rest of the bible says (i.e. Jesus walking on water and raising the dead).
The difference here being that Ten Commandments won't be angry with you if you break them. ;)
I see that we do differ in interpretation of LC fluff. My POV on it:

- firstly, god's biger power=more consciousness as a being - this comes outside of LC is given as objective info rather than in-world view and used to be (still is I assume) GW view on it.

- having that in mind I see following fragments of LC:

Quote:
"In this way, the simple deities that the elder races had developed for themselves across millenia of evolution, suddenly stopped being mere concepts or items of faith, and became actual beings with immense power and independent identity - they truly were the first daemons, gods and angels of Empyrean."
and
Quote:
"Without even realising what they were doing, the Asur began to impose their will and expectations onto some of these greater entities, forging them into benign deities that personified various aspects of the Asur's ideals, hopes and aspirations."
as showing that elven god such as Atharti do have their own personality, goals and ideals. And just like any other warhammer god this personality&goals come from god's nature - one that has been formed by elven ideas & beliefs in that case.

And - what is important - elves are aware that their gods (since the fall of the Old Ones) are no longer mere concepts. To what level and how they worship them is one thing, but they are aware they worship concious, powerful enties.


- IMO as an elf god ('limited Chaos god' and not 'general Chaos god') both Atharti's sphere of influence and interest are smaller than Slaanesh's.

- Unless we take it that Atharti is Slaanesh's aspect (which I'm against, as this is contrarty to the reason she and other new DE gods have been introduced to the fluff), I agree that relation is similar to that of Khorne and Khaine:

* each is independent deity with indepented conciousness
* worshipping of one supports the other to some level

- I agree that by worshipping Atharti an elf might bring Slaanesh's intrest upon him. But I believe that would head toward turning individual to Slaanehs's way rather than 'you worship me, but unwillingly, so I'll limit to gifting you just a little bit'.

- So if Atharti follower (and to remain one) is to get Mark-like bonus it would have to come from Atharti herself. Looking at known history of elves and their gods, I'd say she might, but only for a truly exceptional individual (like Asuryan gifted Aenarion), not on a more common base (which would be needed to field marked units).

- ItP psychology effect might of course be given to a unit in other way. 'no fear of anything whatsoever' is IMO debatable, but simple ritual drugging oneself before battle would suffice.


Kyrel wrote:
But if Slaanesh does not or can not directly gift the elves of the Cult of Pleasure with boons, and if the Druchii actually worship Atharti, why are there then Daemons of Slaanesh in the Cult army? Well, Daemons of Slaanesh basically represent some of the aspects of Slaanesh given physical form. Some of the aspects being represented by the Daemons, can easily be concepts that are mirrored within the worship of Atharti, and thus a follower of Atharti gains the ability to summon up Daemons that represent these concepts. Incidentally, since the concepts are the same, the Daemon that comes out of the summoning, is also identical.
Ok, that's were our points of view go wide and afar.

- Slaaneshi and Atharti's concpets are not identical; if they would they would be same deity or at least one would be aspect of the other

- Their concepts are similar, so their daemon servants might take on a similar form. Similar being the key. No reason why Atharti's servants should have crab-like claws, is there? They should evoke pleasure with their outlook but that can be achieved in many ways.

- So saying 'Oh, these are... umm... Atharti's Succubusses. No, not Slaaneshi Daemonettes. Really.' is IMO going by a far stretch. I would accept it on battlefield perhaps. Like, playing with a friend at home, I may use Waywatchers as DE Shades should I need more miniatures of them than I have... we do even sometimes use empty base or goblin wolfriders as Wild Riders, should we need more. ;) Still, on 'theoretical', AB and background level I would not accept such idea.

- Another thing is that 'benign', 'civilized', 'limited Chaos' or however you choose to call gods created by specific beliefs of a race (be it Sigmar, Morr, Asuryan or Khaine), all have one thing in common - they rarely send their daemonic servants to mortal realm, lest in bigger numbers, to help mortal followers in battle.

- One might say that DE, with all their daemon-dealings, might have it diffrently. But should that be the case, why don't we see Khainite daemons in regular DE army? Surly 'War god' is more likely to send his servants to battle than 'Pleasure god'?


So all in all:
1. Yes, having elves worship only Atharti in place of Slaanesh is closer to GW's idea (by words of Gav on his Mechanical Hamster blog)

2. No, having then a link in the form of almost-Slaaneshi daemons is IMO not defendable.

3. Yes, it would stop Cult of Pleasure being "Chaos Elves". Which I believe would be totally wrong.

- The 6th ed list's name is Cult of Slaanesh, to start with.

- The whole idea of it is about elves who turned to worshipping of Slaanesh - a Chaos god

- Slaanesh, until recently, used to be prominent part of HE/DE background. It is unlike Chaos Dwarfs, who, at least since developement of fluff in 4th ed had their own god, Hashut.

- IMO the whole difference is to give this idea a unique flavour, not to allow CoS to be "Chaos Warriors with pointy ears". Something, which 6th ed list already did I believe.


This has a big preference aspect, which has been discussed at the begining of rewrite. To put is short:

A) some people like their 6th ed CoS with Daemons, Marauders, Warriors and Anointed

B) some people think CoS should be Dark Elves and Daemons only

C) some poeple think than in light of 7th ed fluff, we should leave Slaanesh behind and make Atharti/Pleasure Cult list with DE simply


The last option got little of support. First two got more each, with A) option being the leading one (especially looking at recent posts in rewrite topic)



Today's Cult, Lustria expedition and Flesh&Blood campaign
I'd look at present day of CoS with above fact in mind - so do it in such way as to keep the general idea of 6th ed list


As for Lustria, AFAIK the end result was a draw between Lizardmen and DE, which translated into following events (taken from summary by one of SoC's paricipants I found on the net):


Quote:
17th Sigmarzeit (4th month):
SoC Day 6: Dark Elves, with their barbaric allies, attack jungles of Lustria and Lizardmen.

30th Sigmarzeit (4th Month):
SoC Day 19: In Lustria Druchii, Dark Elves, sack the ruins of the temples surrounding Tlanxla and Quetza. Disturbed from their efforts by these distractions, the Realm of Chaos has grown further, and occurrences of Daemonic intrustions are increased. The Dark Master Be’Lakor is rising.

27th Sommerzeit (5th month):
SoC Day 49: Lizardmen are beating the Dark Elves back.

33rd Sommerzeit (5th month):
SoC Day 55: Lizardmen finally defeat the Dark Elves. Remaining forces of Dark Elves escape to their Black Arks.


So no lizardmen items.


As for Civil War campaign, first short summary from druchii.net forums:

Quote:
Short version -

During the Storm of Chaos, Morathi brought the Cult of Slaanesh out of hiding and launched her raid into Lustria. Upon returning home, Hellebron ordered the Temple of Khaine to purge the "infidels". The Civil War erupted.

The Cult's Chaos allies attacked Naggaroth from the North. Almost every race sent invaders to take advantage of the chaos and confusion. First among them were the High Elves, who attempted and nearly succeeded in building a counter-fortification between Arnhelm and the Wrath Gate in the Blackspine mountains.

The war raged for several months with no clear victor. But as time went by, control of key areas were slowly being regained by the Temple of Khaine loyalists. The Cult and Chaos Hordes were slowly repulsed in the North after crashing through the Watchtowers and threatening the High Temple in Ghrond.

Throughout the entire conflict, Malekith remained absolutely silent. Not a single word on the conflict was heard from the Black Throne. Then, without warning, Shadowblade appeared to the major faction leaders. His mission - put an end to the Civil War. Malekith's thoughts on the war may never be known, but the Civil War was brought to a close by his will alone.

Morathi and Hellebron were spared. Their seconds in command were, alas, not so fortunate. The Cult was not officially suppressed and did not return to hiding. The Temple of Khaine is ostensibly still the state religion in Naggaroth. However the Cultists now openly walk the streets and the tensions that brought about the Civil War in the first place are still simmering.


There is no official storyline on the Cult after Storm of Chaos. The last we heard of Morathi's playthings was that they were returning to Naggaroth from Lustria after a modest success in raiding Lizardmen temples for magical trinkets. Civil war was a distinct possibility, as the Cult was definitely considered heretical by the Temple of Khaine.

Druchii.net ran a campaign to reflect that civil war - the War of Flesh and Blood. It is pretty much canon for most of us, particularly those members that participated. We are currently in the process of chronicling this in the Druchii Herald (volume 1 is in the summer issue, volume 2 is in the works).

The Cult lost that war, but are not entirely disbanded. Indeed, Malekith simply declared the war over and ordered a stop to the fighting. He never ordered the Cult to be purged, though he did order the Chaos mortals to be enslaved. So the Cult would still exist in some form or another.

But even if they were purged by the Temple, they would still exist in the shadows as they have for millenia. The Cult has been around since before the Sundering. They surely won't disappear just because their military power base was broken.
And I do have mixed feelings about it:

1. It seems (haven't got time to read through all of it now) an interesting piece of fluff; unofficial, but is still there.

2. It does rip, or at least limit our possibilty to make a Khaine vs Slaanesh 'Campaign pack', as it already happend.

3. Most of all, it seems to imply that Marauders are now slaves and therefore not available as part of army, inclusion of Anointed also seems problematic if we marry that with 7th ed fluff


So my view on it is:
- If it can be included without altering whole idea of army list, then superb. We might try to make a campaign for following events

- If it can't, stop timeline just after SoC and leave future as possibilites - then we could have campaign for alternate version of Khaine-Slaanesh conflit, without having the outcome decided for all (as each group of players could play it out individually). This I believe would also be in line with current 'setting, not a timeline' perspective GW takes - which while irritating in ignoring what already happend in - supposedly - official fluff, has one good point: army rules don't become unfitting in time due to happening events.


Ok, have to go, so that's all for now.


Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:12 pm
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Some more comments - this time on what MartialArtist said:

- Morathi is already trying to spread the cult among HE (see background in 7th ed DE AB)

- Khaela Mensha Khaine is an elven deiety, and as such is only worshiped by elves; nonetheless, humans have Khaine, God of Murder, whom they believe to be brother to Morr, god of death (those two stay in conflict, as both are trying to be ones who get people's souls after death). DE view that Khaine as a faint reflection of their own god. Background-wise they are in the same relation as Khaela Mensha Khaine and Khorne (they overlap, but are separate, BTW human Khaine overlaps with Khorne also, so all 3 have a common part).

- I don't think Morathi would be interested in spreading Cult of Slaanesh among humans - it doesn't give her much of political power (as Slaanesh's aims may not be hers and human cultists would definitly put a god above even most priced follower) and from 'souls for power exchange' POV, elves are so much worthier than humans.

- This is not to say that she wouldn't colaborate with human cults of Slaanesh - as this god's followers are least about in-cult fighing from all 'Big Four' I believe she might deal with them if it suits her needs; though I believe that would limit to their help in getting magical artefact.

- Wainting to see at least outline of your ideas for Khaine/Slaanesh campaign. I think before you develope it, we need to decide upon background, as to know wether it follows or is alternative to Flesh&Blood campaign.


Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:38 pm
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Weenth wrote:
- Wainting to see at least outline of your ideas for Khaine/Slaanesh campaign. I think before you develope it, we need to decide upon background, as to know wether it follows or is alternative to Flesh&Blood campaign.


As I said at moment just a whole heap of fragments of things, but I will try and get my act togethor on the weekend and probably create (another) thread to put it all in and keep it separate to allow for comments and such. As is, it is just ideas I had for scenarios (situations, rewards for next scenario, limitations to each army, board layout, scenario special rules etc.) with very little background or anything as I'm more focussed on the rules, but when I post it you fluff-buffs can see what you think.

Flesh and Blood campaign? Sorry, but started actually involved in warhammer about 6 months ago (previously just read WD and stuff) and probably having first game in about 2 weeks, so very new and may have missed whatever that was.

MA

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Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:37 am
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Flesh and Blood is aforementioned DE Civil War campaign created here, on druchii.net, supposed to take place soon after Storm of Chaos events. You may check link Voodoomaster gave and 'Old Forums' part in the Forums submenu of the site for more info (that's where I took the short summary from).


Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:43 am
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Lord General Of Khaine
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 2528
Location: Exile
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bored in a lecture here, i have already given a presentation on this topic, so heh.
a quick summary of the War of Flesh and Blood for you all then.

Fought during the winter/spring of 2004 and 2005, this online campaign was a battle between the newly resurgent cult of pleasure from the wake of the Storm of Chaos (Malekith was busy in Ulthuan and left Hellbrone and Morathi in charge.
Morathi moved south with her armies to Lustria in an attempt to increase their/her power. This created unrest in Naggaroth when the armies began to return, finally the powder keg was lit and an open war rather than a secret war began, with the cult moving on the temple of khaine in ghrond in attempt to destroy it, and the tower of sorcery there they attempted to capture, they failed however.
At the mountains of Arnheim the Asur attacked the wrath gate and attempted to build a 6th defence gate of ulthuan there. in the south the temple forces there together with a weak lizardman alliance attempted to stop the Cult armies.
The watchtowers were being overrun, and Ghrond was being fought over as a bloody stalemate. Har Ganeth, Naggarond, Clar Karaond and Hag Greaf were relatively peaceful in comparison. Karond Kar was in the midst of a slave and cult revolt.
Leaders in Ghrond were Khael Vraneth (me) and Lonciera (Darkprincess) with General Kala fighting the Asur alone it seemed at the 6th Gate, and the south an amalagmation of leaders.
At the end armies from Clar Karond finally broke the seige on the watch towers in the name of the king, the revolts in Karond Kar were put down the armies of the south were eventually utterly crushed by the armies of the Temple. Kala died at the 6th gate but she did destroy it, and the Asur were forced back. in Ghrond there was a stalemate with the Temple slightly on top.

The status quo remained at the end, the temple still massively powerful but its credibility damaged a little, the cult dramatically weakened with the kings decree to kill all human allies (or enslave them) but on the other hand it wasn't 100% outlawed, instead ordered to ulthuan to fight once again.

Hope it helps
VM

_________________
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"For every victory there is a defeat, for every defeat there is a victory. My victory, my defeat are for all to see..."
Khael Vraneth, Lord-General of Khaine.


Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:47 am
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