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magic/shooty DE possible? 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 12
hey guys im new to the forums and me and my friend are thinking about getting into dark elves and I was wondering if it was viable to have a competitive heavy magic/shooty de army? I know dark elves are more designed to be a in your face close combat army but was wondering how flexible the army list was to be able to do something like im wanting.


Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:01 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:43 pm
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Location: Scotland
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To be honest the new DE book can be played almost any way you like, its the most flexable book there is imo.

RXB elves (with shields) and DR as core. shades for specials, mabye either BG or execs as well to give you a bit of a combat punch just in case. RBT or 2 as rares.

Only thing you might trouble with is generating enough SCR to beat the very heavy infantry blocks some armies use (skaven especially)


Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:22 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Location: Crofton, MD
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I've actually seen a magic/shooty DE army do very well against some of the newer (Daemons and VC) armies. Whether that's generally the case or just a strange result, I don't know, but it seems like it can work out pretty well.

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Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:06 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 12
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I was thinking it might be possible but I wasnt quite sure exactly how it would work and I didnt wanna go spending all that money without knowing what im doing so I made a list to tryout and proxy along these lines. Its not finished yet but I think I might have the basics.....

supreme sorceress
lvl4
dagger

sorceress
lvl2
darkstar



4 bolt throwers



5 shades (to take out other warmachines/march block)
extra hand weapon



2x10 rxb
shields

25 spears (supreme goes here maybe add an assassin to protect her?)
cmd
shields
warbanner



20 blackguard
cmd
ASF banner


Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
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Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
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Yes, it is quite possible. I've had good success with a magic/shooty army in both this edition of the book and the prior.

A key component in the success of a shooty/magic army is to have a significant number of harrassing units--Dark Riders and Harpies--which can be used to bait and delay the enemy. The longer you can keep the enemy from engaging, the more turns you have to inflict damage with magic and shooting.

The downside is that some opponents REALLY don't like facing this type of army.

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Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:05 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:15 pm
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What you've stated in your "under construction" list is actually not that stupid ... I would go for smaller units though. Even with the dagger you don't need a unit of 25! 20 will do just fine ... might gonna use 14BG's and 7 Executioners - also consider Dyvim Tvar's advice!

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Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:25 pm
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Highborn

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:16 pm
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This kind of army can also struggle against armies that can have troops that come on from behind you, like beastmen or dwarf miners.

If you are going to have a sorceress with a sacrificial dagger in a unit you have to be careful with unit design and use of the dagger.

If you take a unit of 20 spears as the bodyguard, after a magic phase you will be dropping your rank bonus and reducing your combat resolution, which DE spears need to win in combat.

Another option could be to take units of 10-12 spears no shields and simply use them as a battery for your sorceresses. This allows you to use the combat blocks to engage the enemy and the sorceress to go crazy with her dagger.

Be careful though, nothing would make your opponent laugh harder than your sorceress killing enough models that they take a panic test, failing the test and then running off the table.


Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:00 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:16 pm
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I was actually thinking of a small unit to be the battery for the supreme but I was thinking for cost effectiveness maybe I could add that to the 20 man spear unit and combine them so the extra 5 guys there could be used for the dagger or as body fillers against shooting. I think id feel much safer putting her in a 25 man spear unit rather than a small spear unit of 10 (probably 8 maybe 7 after the dagger). I Kinda like the battle standard but I dont know if it would fit in something like this. Also how many chars is a good idea for a 2k army with de?


Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:29 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm
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Location: The Tower of Dust
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I run a magic and shooting army and have no issues. Harpies to screen and block. Some small RXB blocks for flank security, big RXB as bodyguards and for CR, and Cok units for mobility and flank chargers.

Rather than using RBT I've added even more RXB elves and have found it successful versus most things.

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Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:52 am
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Cold One Knight
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:40 pm
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Location: Netherlands
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Quote:
supreme sorceress
lvl4
dagger


Remember when you use your sorceress this way you downgrade the flexibility of your main caster.

- 45 degrees sight
- range issues from spells
- protection --> she is stuck in a unit 1 suicide charge from flyers or another fast unit...

And concerning the dagger my opinion is a lvl 2 can make at least the same or even more use of it. You can take more risk with the lvl 2 than with the lvl 4 concerning generating power dice.

Consider giving the lvl 2 the dagger and the level 4 the tome and a pegasus or dark steed. You get more movement and so flexibility for getting her in the place you want her the most.

Also the lvl 4 peggy with the focus familiar is considered a good combo.

This way you spread your magic power and


Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:01 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
Posts: 9728
Location: In the paintshop
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Try this

Level 4 - dark peg, 2 scrolls, focus familiar, pearl
Level 2 - lifetaker, tome
Level 2 - seal of ghrond
BSB - dark steed, ha, sdc, enchanted shield, pendant, lance
Assassin - cloak, manbane, rending stars

10 rxbs - shields
10 rxbs - shields
10 rxbs - shields
5 Harpies

10 Shades
10 Shades

2 RBTs
Hydra

2250pts

...it works!!


Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:31 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
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Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
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Gary you are telling me it is wrong in sooo many ways.

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DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM


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My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer


Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:33 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
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Marauder Mitch2 wrote:
Gary you are telling me it is wrong in sooo many ways.


I know... :oops:


Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:35 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I tried my version and i felt bad. It was a dice rolling episode. Might take it to Reading but unsure.

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DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM


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My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer


Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:50 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

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Rob you should take the list I posted above to Reading. They deserve it! :twisted: :lol:

The thing is, quite ironically it is fully ETC legal!! :shock:


Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:52 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I had my own version with 2 spearblocks and Sac Dagger but i might just stick a Spearblock in and have the dagger. I want to win 1 event i have come close but the closer i come the harder it gets. I think i am getting good enough to that level.

Does the list do ok with riders which is my issue.

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DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM


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My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer


Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:57 pm
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Slave on the Altar

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:05 am
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My present 2kDE army is a fairly mobile force with a lot of magic, and the joy of having about 75% of the army capable of shooting. Thus far, it has utterly devastated most of my opponents, and the few losses I've had were more caused by tactical errors I made due to inexperience with DE in general than any fault of the army itself.


Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:15 am
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Warrior

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:43 am
Posts: 69
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yes it is very feasible, though I would take the rxb in units of 20 with full command so you also have a fairly good static resolution cc unit if needed. As Dyvim Tvar stated it needs to be backed up with harpies and dark riders. This means that you can usually outshoot most gunlines as if you take dark magic you can stop a large number of units from shooting each turn. This with the harpies will protect your cc units before they get into combat. Further use harpies and DR to march block to get more turns of shooting and magic, this works very well against demons. You have to consider what you are shooting at however, for instance don't even bother with shooting at plague bearers with regen as you will only kill maybe 4 off a turn if you are lucky. Whilst shooting at other units will maybe result in 20-25 dead a turn.


Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:48 pm
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