When to write down where the assassin is?

[Rugi]

Hey!
When do you write down in which unit the assassin is hidding?:

*before the game
*just before the beggining of every game
*when you deploy your characters
*after all units, characters and scouts have deployed

The ruling is not clear to me. It says that assassins begin the game hidden in one of the units. It also says that they are not placed on the table during deployment.

Shadowblades rule is crystal clear to me but this one isn´t.

Rugi

[Ehakir]

after everything has been deployed IMO, or at least, that's the way I always do it.

[Kinslayer]

The same for fanatics, assassins and other hidden models. You deploy, you write down where these are hiding, you roll for first turn...

[Fr0]

Before the game begins.

[Waerik]

Before any units are placed.

Any later then that would give you an unfair advantage IMO.

[Patrizzo]

The same for fanatics

No, those are bought to the unit, not added afterwards.

[Dalamar]

Assassins follow all rules for characters except for not taking up a hero slot.

And thus I'd say you write down their position at the same time you deploy your characters.

[Rugi]

And thus I'd say you write down their position at the same time you deploy your characters.

I also thought this was the correct way but that means that if you wish to hide him inside shades who wish to scout, you will have to do it before they are deployed.
This seems kinda wierd to me.

[Dalamar]

Assassins have scout rule. What do you do with scout characters if you want to deploy them as scouts? wait until everything deploy.

So technically you can wait for everything to deploy and then place your assassins in normal units as you decided not to scout them in the end/didn't have a good position for the shades.

[Lakissov]

I do same as Dalamar, and with exactly the same justification - as each assassin is a scout, then I must (note: not have an option, but must) wait till the time when I deploy scouts to deploy my assassin.

[Crawd]

Once you know your opponent army, before anyone deploy, you should have an idea where you want your assassin. I think it should be writen before anyone deploy something. Or else, you could see the deploiement of your opponent and put your assassin in function of it and normally the assassin would be inside the unit before the battle begins.

That's when I think it should be writen, before anyone deploy their armies.

[Rugi]

OK, I agree you place the assassin at the very end of deployment even tough some opponents might think it´s unfair.
Thank you Dalamar for the justification!

[Silverheimdall]

Assassins have scout rule. What do you do with scout characters if you want to deploy them as scouts? wait until everything deploy.

So technically you can wait for everything to deploy and then place your assassins in normal units as you decided not to scout them in the end/didn't have a good position for the shades.

You're not allowed to deploy them as scouts.
Only to deploy them with Shades.

Assassins may never be deployed on their own (Except Shadowblade).

Assassins are to be attached to a unit before deployment begins.

[Rugi]

Damn i´m confused now!

Can everyone please write down their arguments for a certain conclusion. If you just write "at the beggining" or "at the end" I won´t be able to explain to my opponents why this is so.
Thanks.

In the rules it says that assassin begins the game hidden in one of the units. So what is meant to be the beggining of the game? Deployment or turn 1?
If it is the start of deployment then I agree that assassin must be already hidden at that time. If the beggining of the game is turn 1 I´m with Dalamar.

[Lakissov]

actually the book doesn't say at all when you have to make the note where the assassin is concealed. the only thing it says is that you have to make that note. and also that you don't deploy him at all.

so it's basically a question where each person has to agree with their opponent.

my basic argument is that an assassin should get the same advantages as any other character. if I can choose which unit each oen of them joins, based on the deployment of my and opponent's troops, then why can't I do the same for an assassin? that would be really weird. this is why I always make the decision regarding the assassin's position before turn one. if I meet an opponent that asks to do this earlier, I will do so only if they are a good player that doesn't whine too much, or if I just feel that I don't want to argue and give them that cookie.

[Fr0]

It does not say exactly when you write it down, just do it before the game begins. *Hint before the first turn has begun* This isn't rocket surgery. Deploy your crap, jot down your assassins. Are you opponents this hard headed?

[Dalamar]

No, you're not allowed to deploy them as scouts *on their own* but that doesn't change the fact that they still have the scout rule.

The game begins after the roll for first turn, by that point assassins must have their position noted down.

[Duke daedric]

Well technicaly there are a "unit upgrade" not a character ( just technicaly) and as such you chose which unit to upgrade before the game itself.

I personally do this when I make the armylist just like I choose will my warriors get a champion or not..

[Rugi]

Assassins are definitely not a unit upgrade. That was just a rumour. They are definitely characters but have some special rules.
Unit upgrade is Kouran or Tullaris for example.

[Irtehdar]

The first moment where you must have written down where your assassin hides is when turn 1 begins. Up until that moment you dont have to dedicate it to anything.

However if you dont already before deployment know where you want it you didnt do a good enough job while planning your game.

If you want it with your RxB's its because you want it as a nasty surprice to some unsuspecting fast cav.
If you want it in a static block it is to enforce that unit further.
If you want it in a shade unit then you bought that unit as an assassin dilivery system.
And each different deployment is most effective with different equipment combos.

[Lakissov]

However if you dont already before deployment know where you want it you didnt do a good enough job while planning your game.

...

And each different deployment is most effective with different equipment combos.

This is one point with which I have to disagree.

Currently, I use versatility as the defining concept for building and playing my army list. I like to have units and characters that can do many different things, and which can be combined together to provide different results.

Why this is useful is because this gives you many options and lets you slightly adjust the tactics to better fit against a certain opponent. Assassin, to me, is a unit that can indeed multitask. I give mine an additional hand weapon, a handbow, manbane, rune of khaine and the cloak (because I currently run a magic-heavy version of a vesatile army). The assassin can be used:
- to kill characters, especially if he gets the steed of shadows off (and if he has been blessed with KB by the COB)
- to butcher cavalry, especially if he gets a charge off on it together with shades
- to increase the strength of a flank, guarding the shades from enemy light units
- to buff the black guard anvil (which I run without the ASF banner)

Although I can indeed make a plan in advance on where I want to put my assassin, I prefer to always keep my options open for as long as possible, as long as it doesn't cost me anything. This allows me to make last-minute changes, if needed. The fact that I know where all the troops of my opponent are when I decide upon the placement of the assassin means that I can put him to the best and most suitable place. And as we all know, deployment is a very important part of the game indeed, especially with an army as unforgiving as druchii.