A Case for Executioners

[Malathir]

Up until recently, I had been wholeheartedly in support of Blackguard over their Executioner cousins, though it pained me greatly. However, in trying to experience a bit more of the Khainite side of things in my army, I discovered something that absolutely overjoyed me: The Cauldron of Blood. Mind you, it's not exactly the Cauldron that I found to be effective, but rather, the Executioners in the presence of the Cauldron.

I recently played a game against a rather vicious Warriors of Chaos list, and thought the ability to cut through their rather ridiculous armor was something I wanted to try, if only a little. For this, I took a BSB Hag with the Banner of Nagarythe in the Cauldron. Now, that gives you all the fun of the Cauldron, plenty of initiative to move it up considering that it's your (terror causing) BSB, and it's unbreakable. On top of that, all units within 12" get the BSB, on top of +1 to combat res., and if they're Khainite, they are stubborn. All that, and you have a blessing to play around with. For extra measure against the possibility of a Daemon Prince or other nasty flyer taking out the Cauldron, it was packing an assassin.

The Executioners themselves were a rather large unit of 20, with my general heading them bedecked with in Blood Armour with the Pendant and wielding the Chillblade. Set seven wide and three deep, it was a pretty imposing unit, and so my opponent threw one of his two massive Chaos Knight units at them early in the game. Before the phase was done, there were only four dead executioners, and the ten knights had been cut in half. This of course is rather exceptional, but a potential 14 WS5 S6 KB attacks that Hate..? Worth every penny. Later, the unit was bogged by a Shaggoth, and flanked by a massive unit of marauders, but even without the benefit of many ranks, they were as tough a nut to crack as Blackguard having an effective Ld9 thanks to the +1 of the Banner, stubborn, with rerolls on break, and I gave them a ward save so the Shaggoth didn't just eat them entirely. The "seige" on the unit didn't last long.

In the end, I'm a little uncertain as to whether or not this is too expensive for a unit that can be danced around, but it being the centerpiece of my army does help to attract attention. It also adds a good bit to the straight combat potential of Witch Elves, as well as being something that benefits nigh on any RnF unit we have, although I find that the Stubborn makes a rather massive difference. I still want to play around with this a bit, but I find that this is definitely potential to really make dread use of Executioners as more than a flanking unit, and gives a long more of the bang that the Khainite rule should be bringing to the table. It seems to me that the BSB Cauldron and Executioners is a match made in... whatever abyssal plane we hold dear.

Has anyone else tried this or something similar? Opinions or comments? I want to hear what the other generals have to say on this, or other ideas on Executioners or the Cauldron.

[Chain]

So your master was running around in front of the unit unable to use lookout sir? Your assassin was in the executioner regiment right?

Anyway
executioners are preferable to black guards vs heavy cavalry i'd say(it's what they do best)

The Banner on the
cob was an interesting choice. Must have been nice to take such a large regiment of Executioners with you.

Usually I only inc 5 with a draich master, not that expensive if they die and able to give a shocker if the opponent forget em.

[Malathir]

I suppose I did not explain properly: No, my general led the unit in the conventional sense that he was within it, at the front of the ranks. As I noted, the assassin was with the Cauldron of Blood to protect my rather costly banner and unit to best aid the army by not getting killed by anything less than a cannon or something equally impossible to defend against with a unit as such. For that sort of a thing, I have only my prayers to Khaine and the ward save so granted to rely upon.

It was, in fact, the Dreadlord that did away with the remainder of the Chaos Knights for the most part, the Chillblade killing three out of four knights hits. I am sure to digress, but as far as that item goes, I'm rather torn between it and the Blade of Ruin, but find that on average, against T4 characters and opponents, the Blade of Ruin is far more likely to wound, but the ability to negate the attacks of your enemy with the Chillblade is invaluable, especially when you are set against a fearsome opponent in a challenge. It is essentially assured combat resolution, as a Lord with blood armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, and the Pendant of Khaeleth is indeed a hard character to wound for someone that still has many magic item points remaining for the ability to pack a rather deadly punch.

[Ethsar46]

Unless your general was a witch elf you cant run it in execs, so if you were then its an illegal combo.

Only Khainite characters can join Khainite units. Khainite characters can join normal DE units but not the other way around.

Also you were playing WoC, which means almost no shooting. This is a big advantage for Execs. If your tailoring a list against WoC or a army with almost no shooting then id probably take execs over BG aswell, esp WoC due to their good armour.

[Sulla]

Set seven wide and three deep, it was a pretty imposing unit, and so my opponent threw one of his two massive Chaos Knight units at them early in the game. Before the phase was done, there were only four dead executioners, and the ten knights had been cut in half. This of course is rather exceptional, but a potential 14 WS5 S6 KB attacks that Hate..?

You're basing your views on exies oin large part upon a big unit of knights chargeing you, you passing your fear test and him fluffing all his attacks and then all his armour saves? Play another 10 games with them and then see if you still rate them.

Me personally, I don't face enough non-fear causing knights to make them worthwhile. (And if I were the chaos guy, I would have sent hounds at the exies to lose, flee, draw them out of the cauldron's range and flank them...)

[Malathir]

It's been nice to see some responses, though no real thoughts or additional tactics have been brought up.

Ethsar is right, however, and something I forgot entirely (for which I must apologize to my opponent next time) is that indeed, the Dreadlord could not join the unit! This is something I had backwards, where I was under the impression that a Khainite character could only join a Khainite unit, etc. and not the other way around. Over the whole course of the game he would have served the Cold One Knights far better, so not much is lost on my part.

Sulla, however, I must maintain that I weighed the battle rather extensively before I deigned to bring it up here. Passing a psychology test is no large matter for a high leadership army such as elves. Were we as unsure as Skaven, I can understand that, but fear is by no means an overwhelming obstacle. He did not fluff his attacks, either, as the 5 wide unit of 10 knights throw 10 attacks that against Execs would hit on 4s, cutting it in half, and wounding on 2s, his 4 wounds of 5 hits is, in fact, exactly average. The fact of his mounts not adding anything is a small note, but a note nonetheless, but there was really very little "fluffing" here. As for armor saves, a 4+ armour save is not the all-encompassing 1+ that they start with, and with the contribution of KB, there was, again, very little "fluffing" of his rolls here.

I was highlighting an event where I feel that the contribution of the Cauldron made an otherwise flabby unit that would crumple under such a charge something completely different, and rather turned the tables on it. Over the course of the whole battle, they contributed a good bit more, and I think I'm fair in my opinion. I by no means call the results definitive, and of course it depends upon your player's experience. He was caught with his draws down about the Cauldron, as he had little experience with the new DE, as I was caught and somewhat miffed by the Khornate Lord on Juggernaut hiding in a large unit of Nurgle knights getting the contribution of the -1 WS from the unit in a challenge, but these are all tricks and tools we find out and it's what makes the game interesting. I'm very much looking forward to more games with them, and now really can only think to boost the unit with Tullaris since the Lord is a bust. 21 strong fear causing stubborn execs? Please.

[Dyvim tvar]

I think Executioners are great in conjunction with the Cauldron -- I don't need any convincing. A big plus in my book is that unlike Black Guard, they can flee as a charge reaction. Although being stubborn with the Cauldron is great, sometimes you want to flee to avoid taking casulaties and to set up a counter-charge -- for eaxample, a charge by another unit of Executioners, preferably with the +1 attack from the Cauldron.

[Camaris]

In my opinion execs used in conjunction with the cauldron are awesome, especially against warriors of chaos. However, don't expect them to always survive charges from large units of knights.(I take it he fluffed his rolls?)

[Haf]

" As I noted, the assassin was with the Cauldron of Blood to protect my rather costly banner and unit to best aid the army by not getting killed by anything less than a cannon or something equally impossible to defend against with a unit as such. For that sort of a thing, I have only my prayers to Khaine and the ward save so granted to rely upon. "

Your assasin cant join cauldron! And cant be hidden in it. It is like war machine and, anyway, an upgrade of character.

[Gethsemane]

Characters can join war machine crew... it may be possible for the assassin to join the Cauldron but he is definitely not able to hide in it...