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The Corsair Draft, An Army List to bring in the New League. 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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At last! I get my hands on then new army book and thus have drafted a new list based on one I used to run with many a tweak to keep the corsair theme of all my models.

Dark Elf Army List 1st Draft.

Corsair Fleet of Zardock Doombringer

Zardock Doombringer. Dreadlord @ 225pts
-equipped with Crimson Death and Armour of Darkness wearing the Pendant of Khaeleth.

L’thinare, Sorceress @ 185pts
-with Dispel Scroll and Sacrificial Dagger.

E’lilith, Sorceress @ 197pts
-with Dispel Scroll and Focus Familiar,
-Mount: Dark Steed

Dark Elf Warriors @ 149pts
-20 with Musician and Standard Bearer. /w Shields.

Dark Elf Warriors @ 149pts
-20 with Musician and Standard Bearer. /w Shields.

Dark Elf Warriors @ 120pts
-20 Warriors.

Black Ark Corsairs @ 155pts
-14 Corsairs with Reaver and Musician.

Black Ark Corsairs @ 225pts
-20 Corsairs with Full Command.

Dark Riders @ 139pts
-6 Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician.

Dark Riders @ 139pts
-6 Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician.

Harpies @ 121pts
-11 harpies.

Shades @ 162pts
-10 Shades with Great Weapons and Bloodshade.

Black Guard @ 252pts
-14 Black Guard with Full Command and Banner of Hag Graef.

Total Points - 2251pts

Models in Army - 144

Power Dice - 6
Dispel Dice - 4

The Goal of this list is the 3 warrior units and the 20 man Corsair block take to the middle whilst my 14 man Corsair unit and the Black Guard advance along the Flanks to crush the enemy between several units.

The Harpies are there for Screening/Warmachine Destroying and the Shades are there for General Mayhem/Warmachine Destroying.

Of course the dagger Sorc. will be accompanying the basic warriors who will serve as fodder, allowing her to support the Infantry advance along the centre lines with some magical Fire Power.

The Mounted Sorc will find some nice corners to shoot around with her familiar and will bring her magic to bear where it is most needed and maybe will be run in one of the DR units but I am still toying with that answer.

My Dreadlord will most likely be found in the Central Corsair Unit giving it some added melee power and Ld to the Central Core.

This List may not survive as I have no idea of what lists I may be Playing down at University in a few months and upon realisation I am lacking some of the things that Druchii take as standard.

No RBT's, Crossbows or War Hydra's.

I'm hoping that fellow D.netters can help me reforge this list into something that is fun to play and play against and has some form of competitive edge.

Unfortunately, Zardock ploughs the seas in a raiding ship not a black ark and as such his holds cannot contain Cold Ones or War Hydras and being a raiding army will lack any Khainite Support.

These are the only real limits I want to enforce upon my List and I would love to bounce Ideas of people on how I should modify this list.

At the moment it isn't feeling exactly right to me.

Perhaps More ranged support and less Spearmen? Making a more msu style list to represent the raiding theme I am trying to go for?

Any Comments welcome :D

Thanks Zardock.

Note: The main reason I feel rushed to make this list is because I am taking over the Druchii.net Battle Records from Pyro and feel that I should also be competing in the ladder if I am the one to be updating the thing.

To anyone who wishes to contribute on how to improve Pyro's already great ladder system then also use this thread to post your suggestions.

I hope to be hearing of all your exploits very soon and I will post my new Battle Record Thread as soon as Pyro lets me know that I'm formally in charge.

To those already participating in the Ladder. I have saved the Current Ladder Stats so that we can continue from where Pyro's ladder left off and keeping all of your stats here on the forum.

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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy

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Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:27 pm
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You have a good character set up so I think that's just fine. Though I would think of even dropping the horse from the mounted mage.

I think that the core selection is fine considering what's going on with your theme. I would suggest though dropping the Shades to 7 with no Bloodshade. The large unit size and Bloodshade are very helpful but you could use those points to boost your Spear numbers to 25. Also such a huge unit of Harpies I think is too much. A unit of 7 or 8 would suffice just fine.

As such that gives you 92 points to put back into bulking the numbers of your Spears up. That will leave you 1 point short putting 4 more Spears into the units that your mages will go and then 5 into the unit that won't have anything. This will make those units much more resilient. With 5 combat units, 2 Spears, 2 Corsairs, and the Black Guard I am even thinking that last unit of Spears can go towards another unit of Riders or even a 2nd unit of Shades.

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Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:10 pm
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I ran this list over with a friend and he dismissed my attempts to remove Hydras and RBTs from my list.

I'd like to keep the basic Spears there but if both my sorceresses were to move with the bigger units then dropping the sacrificail spears for more riders might just work.

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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy

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Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:10 pm
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RBT and crossbows are perfectly fluffy and unless you have a problem with them, I would drop the small corsair unit and one spear unit to get a unit of 10 crossbows and two bolt throwers. I think your list will be greatly improved with these. Otherwise, you have very little that will give your opponent incentive to come across the board to you without first shooting you up.

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Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:03 pm
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Quote:
No RBT's, Crossbows or War Hydra's.


I don't see how a raider captain would not have these, but have black guard.. darkbade book suggests nodels on cosair cruises have their cold ones with them

if ur carrying cold ones u cold well be carrying chariots

and I'm sure your Sorceress can magically put the hydra into a deep sleep deep in the hold

spear and crossbows are mercs, hired out to ugment the raiders, by a nobe who owesu a favour or wants a cut of the gold

RTB's are from the ship

yet you have some of the witch kings personal guard, comming along with your petty raid, this raid is for your glory not the almighty witch kings, why should he sent his personal elites, to support your thirst for gold and slaves?

a raider theme.. with black guard? sorry almost anything else in the list, sure BG not so much


Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:43 pm
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I agree with a lot of the other posts. From a fluff perspective have the black guard makes little sense under normal circumstances. If you are dead set on including them due to how useful they are you would have to spin your fluff a little bit more.
Also not including RBT's or crossbows is a little strange in a raiding force that would much prefer to whittle down the opposition rather than risking their relatively few numbers in subsequent engagements against forces that may be numbered close to their own.

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Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:05 am
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I did not explain my fluff entirely for my army.

Needless to say the Black Guard and Spearmen are 'corsairs' in the sense that they will be converted to look like corsairs taking on another role.

The Black Guard are actually Zardock's personal guard who guard his keep on a small island off the coast of Norsca and the Black Guard rules are the best for representing an elite unit that my general is allowed to join ie not Khainite.

The main reason I did not include crossbows and Bolt Throwers was because I ran out of points and was a tad crazy with the Spearmen. I did want to include them but thought that I'd run it through the site to see what everyones opinion was.

Seeing that I have left my range combat somewhat wanting, I will reformat my list and post it in this thread soon. Less Spears, more shades and Bolt Throwers, I just don't take stock in crossbowmen. I find them to static though I'll give them a shot.

Cheers

Zardock.

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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy

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Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:44 pm
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Nice theme you got there, looks a bit like mine :P . Anyway, about the list:
First of all, I also think you really need some missile support. I'd drop 3 shades and the upgrade bloodshade, also split your unit of harpies in 2 units of 5. Then I also would drop an intire unit of spearmen, because you've enough of them and missile is more needed then even more CC support. This will give you 203 spare points. For these points you can buy 2 RBT's. Now you could stop changing and the list would be nice, but if I were you then I would also change this:
Drop the smaller unit of corsairs, take 10 RXBmen with musician and take an extra 4 BG. This wil make the unit of BG a bit more stable and then they'll be able to take a few deaths from missile and still do a great job.
Hope this helps,
Farodin

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Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:32 pm
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My one warning about converting all units to look like corsairs is to make sure that they are distinguishable. You will have some tense games against opponents who can't differentiate between units. Then they will be upset due to not knowing which unit is which. I have seen this happen before with "counts as" units. So, just make sure you convert well.

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Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:37 pm
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Quote:
The Black Guard are actually Zardock's personal guard who guard his keep on a small island off the coast of Norsca and the Black Guard rules are the best for representing an elite unit that my general is allowed to join ie not Khainite.


well that sounds silly


Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:43 am
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edit: double post sorry! =(

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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy

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Last edited by Zardock on Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:47 am
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Quote:
well that sounds silly


That Contributed to the discussion of my army list. To counter this, its A FANTASY game so I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT. Don't waste posts with irrelevant bullcrap that doesn't contribute to this discussion.

I am adding some RBTs and crossbows as advised and will test those out when I get a chance.

As for the modelling aspect druchii77, The spear corsairs will just be warriors with sea dragon cloaks, I'm using this because in the Malus Novels the corsairs frequently weild Spears and Shields and I assume its just as well they are trained in all types of war.

The 'black guard' will be armed with Halberds and will be ornate and easily distinguishable from the rest of the army do not worry about that.

Anyway I have received the advice that I was looking for and would not look to turn this thread into a place to flame my fluff for my army.

Thanks to everyone who attempted to be constructive.

Cheers

Zardock

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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy

The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.


Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:47 am
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sorry black guard just shold not be in a raider army

there are just there because you want to use the badist no brainer unit in the game, how ever you try to dress it up


Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:56 am
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Zardock Doombringer wrote:
its A FANTASY game so I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT.

The 'black guard' will be armed with Halberds and will be ornate and easily distinguishable from the rest of the army do not worry about that.

I fully support that. :)
Myself, when I have Lokhir commanding an army, I'd rather give him the BG escort he deserves than mere corsairs.
By the way, being a corsair (an not a pirate) means that we have the official support of the ruling authorities.
I don't see why they would not support us with some exceptional participation of their best trusted troops.
BG are not opposite to corsair fluff as Khainites.
And I don't see why adding some fluff would condemn us to renounce (for what sake?) to have a competitive army!

Zardock Doombringer wrote:
Don't waste posts with irrelevant bullcrap that doesn't contribute to this discussion.
I would not look to turn this thread into a place to flame my fluff for my army.
I fully support your wisdom as well. ;)

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:41 am
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backslide wrote:
sorry black guard just shold not be in a raider army

there are just there because you want to use the badist no brainer unit in the game, how ever you try to dress it up


You've already made your point, and Zardock disagrees. Stop kicking a dead horse and either make constructive posts or stop posting in this thread. Its Zardock's army and he can do whatever he wants within the rules of the game.

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:34 pm
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Hummmmm......

I would have cold ones and not horses because the cold ones can eat fish. Dark steeds are weird though so who cares anyway.

Justy looking at your core I would like 2x5/6 harpies for vertical envelopment during opposed landings, over the horizon recon at see and general cuteness as you can also feed them anything. 3 spear and 2 Corsairs? Spears have no use at sea so I would go all RXB for say 2x 20 corsairs with FC, 1x20 RXB with shiields and muso for the dagger and 1x10 RXB shields and muso with the remaining points.

The Shades are fine of course but a little big, and the BG as your lord's escort is also fine whatever anybody says.

Overal a nice list with a lot of character, but I would drop the DR for naked CoKs just to add a littl intimidation on the flanks, especially if you have the 30 RXB

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:12 pm
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Zardock Doombringer wrote:
The 'black guard' will be armed with Halberds and will be ornate and easily distinguishable from the rest of the army do not worry about that.


You could also use them, fluffwise, as a simple elite guard of retainers. Therefore not necessairly being the elite guard from the king himself, just well armed personal guard. Hell, Malus has his own private guard, why shouldn't your highborn have some?

Most has been said already, cut shades and harpies in half, take bloodshade. But besides that, I'd either go fully offensive with the Sorcs or fully defensive and take two scrolls. Now you've got two sorcs that can do a little bit of both but not enough. To upgrade your magic defense, take the seal of ghrond on one of your non-spelcaster heroes. Then take more offensive magic items like the +1 PD staff and the Tome of Furion.

Just my ideas ^^

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:07 pm
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Quote:
sorry black guard just shold not be in a raider army

there are just there because you want to use the badist no brainer unit in the game, how ever you try to dress it up


Yes I do want some Black Guard because they are bad ass and no brainer, I don't deny that, I dress them up so that they fit in with the Theme but enough of your talk now.

I'm definately keeping the DR's and removing some of the spears for crossbows.

Concerning the Sorceresses, I always play them this way even from the last edition. I find that 2 dispel scrolls are handy and even with only one offensive magical item they can lay down so much magical firepower with the PoD and the dagger. I do not intend for them to be the magical bombardment of a lvl 4, they only know 2 spells and so they will provide some support for my troops marching forward and will leave the spearmen before combat is met.

Really I'm hoping that at least one of the sorcs will roll Word of Pain and allow my units to begin decimating the combat phase one unit at a time.

I agree that the cutting down on the Shades and Harpies will help to alleviate some points and make the units more practical.

I'm not to sure if cutting the Spearelves out completely would be a good idea, although if the corsairs can hold in combat and allow a flank charge then their slavers rule would help with the subsequent break chance I want them to take.

I'll edit in a new list once I have revised it.

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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy

The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.


Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:43 pm
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With so many infantry, your opponent will have to kill a lot of elves before getting any result.

I fully share Neves's opinion about sorceresses:
Quote:
I'd either go fully offensive with the Sorcs or fully defensive and take two scrolls. Now you've got two sorcs that can do a little bit of both but not enough.
Only a couple of spells will go through a good magic defense. And the magic defense they provide is just one DD above a mere scroll caddy.
If you're happy to play like that, fine.
If you want to be more competitive, then
- either you provide the BG the RoH for a better defense, and by dropping one sorceress, with the spare pts you can take an assassin (yes, Khainite, but Corsairs are said to routinely hire them)
- or you take a 3rd sorc for a better magical attack.

- 11 harpies. - 10 Shades.
The immediate question is why not make them 5+6 and 5+5.
Same cost. Usually not all of them can fight so splitting between two target can be effective. And the tactical options provided by 4 units are twice the ones provided by only 2.

Last question:
didn't you consider the Frenzy standard and the AP banneer for your 2 corsair units? Unless you consider that your units will win by the numbers, not by killing some foes.

If you did all this, you would have three offensive units, three cheaper defensive units and 6 agile supporting units (DR, harpies and shades). No shooting (or little if you take MXBs), little magic. Could work.
Looking forward to reading your battle reports!
Go Corsairs!

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Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:06 am
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Callisson, I mentioned this was a draft list. To be honest I only just bought the AB and skimmed through it, later looking at the other standards realised that they would help.

Once I've finished travelling I'll rework the list and work on my theme.

As you play a corsair army I hope you wouldn't mind me asking more questions as they appear before me.

I'll consider the dropping of the 2nd sorc for just plain scroll caddy and RoH for BGs.

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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy

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Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:32 pm
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I like your draft list and my suggestions are as follows:

1. Your current army-list would struggle against very tough armies, particularly those that have the support of monsters/daemons. The reason for this is because you not only lack these yourself, but also have nothing adequate enough to deal with any the enemy throw at you.

I think you should include either at least one Reaper and/or a war hydra. I appreciate any changes you might be prepared to make would probably only allow for one of these two additions, but I really think you will have a problem without them.

Also the Corsair invasion forces are very offensive in nature. Reapers could cut down the enemy's more dangerous additions from afar and weaken their regiments for your Corsairs to finish off. They have more range and hitting power than crossbows which may also face the problem of having to move forward with the rest of your army to shoot at required targets which would prevent them from firing and being effective in their support.

A War Hydra would provide a hammer force and needed strength to your army. Additionally, it might attract attention away from your Black Guard and Dark Riders.

2. On that note, I think your Black Guard are a good solid choice, but not up to strength as they are. If you take Black Guard then you want to get them into combat as they are your best unit and expensive, but it would not take much in the way of missile fire for example to knock off your bonus one for your extra rank and then you will be almost relying completely on the roll of the dice as, although immune to psychology, they are not unbreakable without Kouran or the Banner of Nagarythe.

Although they have two attacks and the Standard of Hag Graef, if they do not strike first for whatever reason (enemy gets strike first on roll off or iniative/impact hits) then that will be your deadliest regiment gone, bearing in mind it also contains the most points. An easy picking for victory points.

3. Remove a harpie and have two units of five. Two units will work better than one and give more for the enemy to keep their eye on.

4. I think you have too many Warriors and not enough Corsairs if you do not take any Reapers or additional infantry-based missile support alongside your shades. Your current army is not going to be hanging around waiting for the enemy because it lacks that ranged capability and your Shades only have a range of 24" and will probably be on the flank somewhere. Your Corsairs are probably better off with 2-hwps as otherwise you lack the advantage of numerous attacks you need without much in the way of heavy support.

Corsairs may be slightly more expensive, but they have at least two attacks and better protection against missle fire. Also, they will not lose an attack when on the offensive unlike the Warriors.

Hope that little bit helps.

Right Hand of Khaine


Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:49 pm
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I like your draft list and my suggestions are as follows:

1. Your current army-list would struggle against very tough armies, particularly those that have the support of monsters/daemons. The reason for this is because you not only lack these yourself, but also have nothing adequate enough to deal with any the enemy throw at you.

I think you should include either at least one Reaper and/or a war hydra. I appreciate any changes you might be prepared to make would probably only allow for one of these two additions, but I really think you will have a problem without them.

Also the Corsair invasion forces are very offensive in nature. Reapers could cut down the enemy's more dangerous additions from afar and weaken their regiments for your Corsairs to finish off. They have more range and hitting power than crossbows which may also face the problem of having to move forward with the rest of your army to shoot at required targets which would prevent them from firing and being effective in their support.

A War Hydra would provide a hammer force and needed strength to your army. Additionally, it might attract attention away from your Black Guard and Dark Riders.

2. On that note, I think your Black Guard are a good solid choice, but not up to strength as they are. If you take Black Guard then you want to get them into combat as they are your best unit and expensive, but it would not take much in the way of missile fire for example to knock off your bonus one for your extra rank and then you will be almost relying completely on the roll of the dice as, although immune to psychology, they are not unbreakable without Kouran or the Banner of Nagarythe.

Although they have two attacks and the Standard of Hag Graef, if they do not strike first for whatever reason (enemy gets strike first on roll off or iniative/impact hits) then that will be your deadliest regiment gone, bearing in mind it also contains the most points. An easy picking for victory points.

3. Remove a harpie and have two units of five. Two units will work better than one and give more for the enemy to keep their eye on.

4. I think you have too many Warriors and not enough Corsairs if you do not take any Reapers or additional infantry-based missile support alongside your shades. Your current army is not going to be hanging around waiting for the enemy because it lacks that ranged capability and your Shades only have a range of 24" and will probably be on the flank somewhere. Your Corsairs are probably better off with 2-hwps as otherwise you lack the advantage of numerous attacks you need without much in the way of heavy support.

Corsairs may be slightly more expensive, but they have at least two attacks and better protection against missle fire. Also, they will not lose an attack when on the offensive unlike the Warriors.

Hope that little bit helps.

Right Hand of Khaine


Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:52 pm
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I like your draft list and my suggestions are as follows:

1. Your current army-list would struggle against very tough armies, particularly those that have the support of monsters/daemons. The reason for this is because you not only lack these yourself, but also have nothing adequate enough to deal with any the enemy throw at you.

I think you should include either at least one Reaper and/or a war hydra. I appreciate any changes you might be prepared to make would probably only allow for one of these two additions, but I really think you will have a problem without them.

Also the Corsair invasion forces are very offensive in nature. Reapers could cut down the enemy's more dangerous additions from afar and weaken their regiments for your Corsairs to finish off. They have more range and hitting power than crossbows which may also face the problem of having to move forward with the rest of your army to shoot at required targets which would prevent them from firing and being effective in their support.

A War Hydra would provide a hammer force and needed strength to your army. Additionally, it might attract attention away from your Black Guard and Dark Riders.

2. On that note, I think your Black Guard are a good solid choice, but not up to strength as they are. If you take Black Guard then you want to get them into combat as they are your best unit and expensive, but it would not take much in the way of missile fire for example to knock off your bonus one for your extra rank and then you will be almost relying completely on the roll of the dice as, although immune to psychology, they are not unbreakable without Kouran or the Banner of Nagarythe.

Although they have two attacks and the Standard of Hag Graef, if they do not strike first for whatever reason (enemy gets strike first on roll off or iniative/impact hits) then that will be your deadliest regiment gone, bearing in mind it also contains the most points. An easy picking for victory points.

3. Remove a harpie and have two units of five. Two units will work better than one and give more for the enemy to keep their eye on.

4. I think you have too many Warriors and not enough Corsairs if you do not take any Reapers or additional infantry-based missile support alongside your shades. Your current army is not going to be hanging around waiting for the enemy because it lacks that ranged capability and your Shades only have a range of 24" and will probably be on the flank somewhere. Your Corsairs are probably better off with 2-hwps as otherwise you lack the advantage of numerous attacks you need without much in the way of heavy support.

Corsairs may be slightly more expensive, but they have at least two attacks and better protection against missle fire. Also, they will not lose an attack when on the offensive unlike the Warriors.

Hope that little bit helps.

Right Hand of Khaine


Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:52 pm
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