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Dragon in a 2k army? is it viable or just too cheesy? 
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Slave on the Altar

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:07 pm
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following on from a previous post i made where i said i would love to create an army based army a rich sorceress who had a dragon that she............well obtained :D

a) do you think its a viable option a dragon in a 2k army list? my reasoning for including one would be from more of an army theme than a game winning instrument (though i would mind winning a few games now and then :D )

b)would you go sorceress or dreadlord route? sorceress would fit my theme obviously but i could quite easy put in that she doesnt ride the dragon herself. too dangerous for her ;) im just slightly concerned that id be too worried of putting her into combat like you should do with any good dragon!!

and c) support issues. if my dragon goes tearing about the place left right and centre do i need to suuport her? or should i ?

penny for your thoughts :D


Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:30 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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This is purely personal oppinion but I tend to look down on folks who bring a dragon to a 2000 point game. While it is technically allowed, your army is the exact minimum number of points to bring a Lord level character and fielding him on a dragon just seems like overkill. Bring a Lord at 2000 if you need to and a dragon at 2250 or higher. For the record, I play 3999 point games without dragons.


Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:06 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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Dragon's are definatly effective in 2000pts and i don't think it is unfair to take them, their are several ways of neuturalising them (cannons, bolt throwers, lore of beasts). Also a dragon character takes up to character slots and is only about the same cost as a tooled up lord and a tooled up hero. Plus with the new lizardmen book its not the dragons you need to be worried about.

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Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:22 pm
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Dragon Lord
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I'm being looked down on by phierlihy ;)

I tried a couple games without a dragon, and frankly, I find it irreplaceable, whether it's dreadlord on a dragon, or supreme sorcerer on a dragon.

Simply because dragon is the only thing that combines speed, manouverability and killy power.

Sure we have other units as well, but they don't have all those points which make dragon so good.

Dark Riders are amazing with their speed and manouverability... but the lack the punch to destroy sometimes even small units on their own.

Cold One Knights have the speed and the power... but they sorely lack in manouverability department

Sure, Dark Riders + Cold One Knights sound like a perfect solution to Dragon's awesomeness don't they? But nothing ever goes according to plan. What it your CoKs fail stupidity with Dark Riders perfectly set up for a flank charge? The situation will probably not happen again in the rest of the game. What if your Dark Riders get shot up and leave Knights unsupported? The knights then stand a good chance at not breaking what they were meant to break. and so on.

Dragon can easily position itself on a flank, fly over enemy units during a charge (often overlooked by any opponent) and easily cause 6+ wounds on its own, especially with hatred now. 6+ wounds against standard block of infantry means winning by 4 points, pretty good chance at breaking them on the charge.

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Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:23 pm
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Dragons at anything less than 3,000 points or so tend to set the game on "easy mode." That said, some groups rather enjoy playing the kind of no-holds-barred Warhammer that makes Dragons, multiple Treemen/Hydras/Steam Tanks and other hard builds completely acceptable at 2,000 points. My advice would be to bring two lists, one with a Dragon and one without, and play according to the expectations of your group/opponent.

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Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:39 pm
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I don't see how the game is set on "easy mode" with Dragons in 2k. I like to play balanced games and my typical 2k list doesn't have space for Dreadlord but every once in a while I do like to field one. And when I do, he is always either on a Dark Steed or a Black Dragon. Dragon being the superior choice.

They do need support and your army should be specialized in WM hunting and anti-magic.

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Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:38 pm
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The SkaerKrow wrote:
Dragons at anything less than 3,000 points or so tend to set the game on "easy mode." That said, some groups rather enjoy playing the kind of no-holds-barred Warhammer that makes Dragons, multiple Treemen/Hydras/Steam Tanks and other hard builds completely acceptable at 2,000 points.


Guilty as charged! I do have to say that taking a Dragon is not "easy mode," mainly because it's hard to keep him alive long enough for him to do stuff!

Our group loves the cheese (though I myself despise it). Usually our battles end around 4th or 5th turn due to the severity of losses for one side or the other, and it's not uncommon to see both sides completely devastated after our games. So, taking a Black Dragon at 2k points isn't really a big surprise when you have stuff like Bloodthirsters, Dual Dragon lists, and lots of Steam Tanks running around!


Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:21 pm
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For the record, I don’t take one myself, but I see it definitely as a viable option in a 2000 point list. The dragon lord on does not automatically make your list cheesy.

The rules allow it, it can be dealt with, you don’t automatically win and it is not like you don’t pay for it in points.

Also, If your dragon lord gets taken out then it is unlikely that your army will perform as well and it is VERY unlikely that your opponent will be moaning about you bringing it then!

I just see it as a tactical decision people make when selecting an army.

@ServentSmithy
If you want an army themed around a rich sorceress then I suggest you go ahead and make it. It is, after all, your money and time that will be invested in your army.

I personally would take a sorceress over a dreadlord. My thinking about this would be to let the dragon do the fighting and the sorceress to do the magic. It is after all very expensive option at 2000points and at least you would get both aspects of the game.

I find it hard to play warhammer without a bit of magic!


Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:49 am
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Hmmm cheesy... well, if he would have 10 wounds, an 1+ armour save, could shoot a cannon, and could have more than 15 autohitting S6 attacks, I would say he would be cheesy. But he would be paying +200 pts over the Steamtank in this case, just to be able to fly... well...

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Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:47 pm
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i never leave home without one....dreadlord on black dragon with AoES, PoK SDC, Shield, Lance, Rxb and two null talismans(if my opponent is magic heavy) or a magic weapon like crimson death(if opponent is not magic heavy)(then no lance)......the dark elves are all about losing some to win...but that should never be the general...565 pointsd that you have at the end of the game is great.....i love this set up and he is whatever you game dictates, has the mobility to change tactics midstream..can always lend his ld 10 to needed battles with proper moving...there have been so many games i never brought him into actual close combat but his breath weapon, annoying 2 shots and Ld bonus just was so flippin clutch for me. lets no forget the terror and 9 strength 6 hatred attacks when the general is ready for some carnage himself....a great general never gets dooped into charging a unit he doesnt want to.....once you start thinking two turns ahead this general becomes the QUEEN OF ALL CHESS MATCHES!!!!!....invaluable....i would rather have this and no hydra's or CoK then to have those units without him...i am getting a chubby just thinking about the next opponent i will massacre with him.

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Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:59 am
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I find dragon's to be more than acceptable in a 2k game. The amount that you invest into having the dragon is usually more than enough to let your opponent take things that would easily counter it. And then there's still enough points for Core, a pair of Sorceresses and some special.

Personally, I prefer a dreadlord with Deathpiercer, AoES, Ring of Darkness, SDC and Shield. Gives him a nice AS, regen, and anyone targeting the dragon or him suffers half WS or BS (goodbye reliable bolt throwers and medium arms fire, as well as Chaos lords skill).

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Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:35 am
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buddylimbeck wrote:
dreadlord on black dragon with AoES, PoK SDC, Shield, Lance, Rxb and two null talismans(if my opponent is magic heavy)

Not allowed according to the new FAQ; null talismans just take up your talisman slot, so you can't combine them with the PoK.

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Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:17 am
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Slave on the Altar

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I happen to think people who look down on other people for there choices of units in Warhammer are a bit pretentious. I love taking a dragon along occassionally, although the group i play with generaly love to go balls out on unit choices with a lavish slathering of steam tanks dragons and *hate filled shudder* Tyrion.


Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:05 am
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In case that was directed my way, just for the record, I also look down on people who bring two Hydras, two Steam Tanks, a pair of Ancient Stegadons, more than one Hell Cannon, SAD armies, armies that field more than ten power dice, Bloodthirsters, Thorek, and a few other things that escape me at the moment, in a 2000 point game (the exact BARE MINIMUM number of points to field the most heinous thing your army book mkes possible). If someone wants a one-off game to try something out, sure. I'll let them play kick-the-baby with me. But I've got lots of people to choose from. If people just want to field garbage lists all the time, I've got other players to thrown down against.

I show up to actually PLAY the game.


Last edited by Phierlihy on Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:16 pm
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phierlihy wrote:
If people just want to field garbage lists, I've got other players to thrown down against.

I show up to actually PLAY the game.


Well, that makes me feel awkward!

Garbage lists? Really? It's all just part of the game! Can't really expect everything to be even, because, well, the armies aren't even! Not using the advantages given to you in your army's lineup is what I look down on, personally.

It may be just something that only I agree with, but that's something I hold to dearly. Any challenge you face makes you a better player I think. If everything was always even some of the magic of the game would be lost, in my eyes.

Well anyway, back on topic somewhat, Dragons really aren't the worst things out there. I'd much rather face a Dragon than face something like a Bloodthirster. Really, it's all down to how you use the choices you buy. If you use it effectively, people will call you cheesy, if you use it ineffectively, people won't really care much.

Dragons are not cheesy, because there's always a countermeasure for everything.


Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:29 pm
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Dragon Lord
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The cheese is only in your mind.
I think that sums up my opinion about "cheesy" lists and "cheesy" army choices.

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Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:01 pm
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Slave on the Altar

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Using a Dragon in 2000pts is not cheesy but great fun. you watch the face of your opponent when you reveal a Black dragon on the field. I often use one in 2000pts however it is a big target for enemy fire so while it is being attacked by bolt throwers and ranged units get your close combat units in as soon as you can.

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Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:23 am
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Dragons are ok in a 2K army because sometimes your lord would want to show off his favour. Dragons are good but easy to deal with. How many empire armies go without cannons, or Elf armies without Bolt Throwers.

Everyone have ideas of cheesey.

i used the dragonmage as i wanted a different idea that could work in the GW GT environment.

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Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:52 am
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Lord on a dragon in 2000 points means that you have not much magic.
this combo is beatable and for around 500 points your enemy have other troops that are dangeruss.


Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:29 pm
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I only look down on people who look down on people because of the army list they brought.

Any chance I had of hoping to keep the game under control and reasonable in who picks what went away when Daemons came out anyway. Take whatever you're comfortable with if doing so helps you with your strategy to win.

A dragon won't win the game for you, but he is a heck of a flanking force that can disrupt your opponents strategy, it is their job to counter act that with strategy of their own. Every list I take focuses on how I can kill my opponent, but I also keep security measures in there for the things that I have a hard time dealing with.

For example, I would not run a 2 hydra list, as I think the 2 bolt throwers are too important for putting wounds on greater daemons, dragons, steam tanks, trees, stegadons, etc. My orcs take 4 bolt throwers for the same reason. When I ran empire, I always took a pair of cannons, etc. Its a cheaper way to deal with those threats. If more people looked at Warhammer that way, the game would balance out a lot faster... I would take my dragon less often if most every opponent had a pair of cannons or bolt throwers as I risk 320 points for 200 or so.

In my opinion, when people worry about 'cheesy' lists it is because they have already got set in their head what they want to play with as an army list (either because they can't afford more models, or don't want to paint more, or don't like taking unit xxx) so don't vary their lists all that much. As a result, something that comes along that makes it very hard for them to win gets categorizes as "cheese"

Play how it makes you feel happy. Unless you live in a small market, there are games to be had out there.


Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:13 pm
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You should never look down on somebody for the army list that they bring. As long as it's legal and they're paying the points, then they should reserve the right to take it in their army and have hit be called fair, since that's exactly what it is. I am really loving the dragonlord right now, but he's had some ups and downs for me in the past. My favorite setup right now is Dreadlord on Black Dragon with Lance, SDC, Sheild, AoES, PoK, and the Potion of Strength. Just a kick as combo for attacking and will definitely be able to survive almost any fight.

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Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:50 pm
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I wouldn't use one normally

I think that in 2,000 points a 300-ish point mount is just too big a point sink. I like to keep things cheap and cheerful, but I mean at the end of the day, If my opponent brings a Monstrous mount into his games at 2,000 I'll be fine with it.

You could always try a Manticore... I might do that myself....

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:05 pm
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But a Manticore has no AS, is a large target, only T5 and has less wounds. I like using them too, but they can't quite do what a dragon can.

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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:56 pm
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Im not a big fan of dragons. But thats because Im not a fan of stuffing more than 250 pts into a single target.
I wont look down at a person for their army choices. Ill look down at the person who cheats, Ill look down at the person who fails to play his chosen army to its full potential but I wont look down at the person who brought something I was not prepared to counter. That just means he won the ''army selection phase''
I have means of putting a dragon into the ground(they are all over in our book) and if those means fail then I was not prepared enough for the game.

If my opponent can bring a dragon so can I. The game is beautifully balanced that way. I choose not to bring one and instead spend those points on other stuff most of the time.

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Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:47 pm
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I like dragons I am playing DE cause they have cool modles and a dragon. Though my first army was dwars then i went to Tk I know have 4-500pnts of Tk and still wokring on my DE Army to play with a dragon. I always liked dragons and think there really cool so now I get to play with one.

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Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:19 am
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