New to Druchii, vs. WoC

Druchiilifestealer · Post by **Druchiilifestealer** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:18 pm

OK so this weekend is the first time I'm running my DEs. My opponent is most likely going to be against the WoC. Being a former OK player, I'm fairly used to units with high movement. My list is as follows

Master
PoK
Blood Armor

Sorceress
Lvl2
Darkstar Cloak
Power Stoner

Shadowblade
Simply here because he was talking down on him when we were discussing the new book. Also to slap around his chosen -.-

10 RxB
10 RxB
20 Corsairs AHW
5 DR RxB
5 Harpies
5CoK
FC
1 Assassin
AHW
RoK
ToD
BV

He is going to modify his list to run around my points lvl, which I'm not sure off hand what it is since I don't have my book handy, me posting this from my iPod at work <,<;;

I DO know however, having watched him play a few games and having played him with my ogres, what units he will be using.

5 Chaos Knights
Mark of Khorne
15-20 Chosen
Mark of Nurgle >.<
20+ Marauders
5 of the chaos Fast Cav
10 hounds.

He generally doesn't use much magic, and if he does its Nurgle.
My other opponents I'm not worried about since the Empire player is still new, and the Lizardman player is well..... dumb. (YEAH I'M GUNNA CHARGE YOU WITH MY SLAAN WHO DOESN'T HAVE ANY TEMPLE GUARD LEFT!)

Any advice would be helpful! (Edited because I forgot my manners and thanking you in advance >.>)

Post by **Dalamar** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Shadowblade sadly is to be talked down on... he's horrible with the new rules, not even a match for a regular assassin unless you want him to be war machine hunter (and even then regular assassin can often do better).

Buddylimbeck · Post by **Buddylimbeck** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:51 am

i disagree...shadowblade in an opponents unit can turn the tide...especially against high elves....killed teclis in turn 2 once with him and that won me the game...a 300 point assassin who can hide in an enemies unit can be awesome!!

Post by **Dalamar** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:53 am

That Teclis was stupidly deployed then.
All you need is a champion to challenge Shadowblade, who can't refuse the challenge, and gets beaten by combat resolution.
He's simply not worth 300 points. If he had Rune of Khaine then he'd be worth considering.
Also if you roll that 1 on turn 2 he's dead no matter what. A bit too much gamble if you ask me.

Buddylimbeck · Post by **Buddylimbeck** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:16 am

a 5 inch template for strength 3 on toughness 3 can be brutal if he does die...and you get to choose where you put shadowblade so if he does have someone next to teclis then you dont have to put him in that unit and if rolling a one is what would keep me from using someone then i wouldnt play this game anymore....cause most people suck if you roll a one when using one of their abilities

Buddylimbeck · Post by **Buddylimbeck** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:19 am

am i wrong in where you place shadowblade if you dont roll a one...he automatically replaces one of the soldiers in that unit, so if you put him on the other side of teclis and challenge and there is no hero or champion in base contact they cannot accept the challenge or issue one for that matter

Druchiilifestealer · Post by **Druchiilifestealer** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:23 am

That's what I thought. Also, put him on the flank, negate that bonus from your opponent, kill one or 2 and force a draw?

Post by **Dalamar** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:26 am

ok. let me show you the formation.

EECTE

E-Elf
C-Champion
T-Teclis

There is no legal position for you to touch the Teclis without touching the Champion (you still have to contact maximum number of models when you reveal shadowblade) and putting him on the flank makes you unable to attack teclis at all.

Buddylimbeck · Post by **Buddylimbeck** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:28 am

unit st 5 or more negates ranks..not single characters...or am i wrong in that as well

Post by **Dalamar** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:29 am

yes, it has to be US 5 or higher to negate ranks, so Shadowblade won't do that by himself.

Simply put, in *vast* majority of situations two assassins cost the same or a little more than Shadowblade (depending on equipment) and are far more flexible and reliable.

Buddylimbeck · Post by **Buddylimbeck** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:30 am

y can u not put him on corner...he is one of the units...he is standing where he is revealed and if he challenges immediately then only teclis can accept or refuse

Camaris · Post by **Camaris** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:30 am

The key to winning vs. warriors is more or less to run circles around them until they overextend themselves. Basically, use your DR to cut and run, while, focussing your rxb fire on his marauders, fast cav and hounds. Use your Harpies to marchblock his chosen. M4 pretty much ensures that they won't be doing anything. Once you have used your movement and shooting to control the movement phase, combo charge the flanks of one of his uber units(knights and chosen) with 2-3 of your own units.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Dalamar. Shadowblade is very situational. He's pretty much only useful if your facing some uber mage like Teclis, so I wouldn't recommend using him. Maybe switch him out for another unit of DR and another assassin or another level 2 mage and DR.

Post by **Dalamar** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:36 am

When you reveal shadowblade you put him in contact with any side of the enemy unit. And when getting into close combat there is a rule to maximise models in combat from both sides.

He's not *inside* the unit after he's revealed, he follows all rules for normal units.

He is not part of the unit he was hiding in, he comes out of it.

So in my example formation, lets make it two ranks

Code: Select all

EEEEE
EECTE

you can place Shadowblade either behind them

Code: Select all

  S
EEEEE
EECTE

to one of the sides

Code: Select all

SEEEEE
 EECTE

or to the front

Code: Select all

EEEEE
EECTE
   S

Druchiilifestealer · Post by **Druchiilifestealer** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:52 pm

shouldn't one of those E be missing from his reveal?

Post by **Dalamar** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:54 pm

it should, but it's a minor detail, doesn't affect the fact that Shadowblade is unable to kill any characters he's meant to kill if your opponent knows how to place his characters inside units.

Druchiilifestealer · Post by **Druchiilifestealer** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:23 pm

What about just tying up units till help arrives?

Post by **Calisson** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:44 pm

Dalamar wrote:when getting into close combat there is a rule to maximise models in combat from both sides.

BRB p.21 (bottom).
"When a unit charges, the player must try to put as many models as possible, from both sides, in contact."

However, shadowblade dos NOT charge.
DEAB p.68: "when Shadowblade is revealed, remove a rank-and-file from the unit and place Shadowblade anywhere in contact. The unit and Shadowblade are then in melee." (RAW translated from French)

Conclusion:
it is perfectly legal to reveal Shadowblade like this:

S
ETCEE
EEEEx

where "x" is the one removed.

Important · Post by **Important** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:34 am

I can agree here with shadowblade. The only use I've gotten with him is to ruin warmachines with crew or small regiment of shooters. He can be good against wood elves and thier skirmishers to make them stop so you can catch up if they are trying go around your units.

Otherwise I find a normal assasin better.

Druchiilifestealer · Post by **Druchiilifestealer** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:55 pm

OK so I switched him out for another unit of DR (converted Glade Riders ftw....) and a second lvl 2 sorc.