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What to do at 1500? 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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On the 4th of April I will have a tournament with a point cap at 1500 pts. I know that one of the players, who I will probably face, will field skaven or beasts or chaos. So what would you field at 1500 pts?

I thought of a list with a master on manticore, PoK bsb, 2 units dark riders, a unit CoK, and 2 RBT's.
Another list I thought of contained a master on chariot, the PoK BSB, two units warriors, an assassin, some CoK and a Hydra.

I don't want to take magic as it is usually me who suffers most when casting spells with my casters :P. So what do you suggest?

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Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:22 pm
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Corsair
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List 1. :D
Very mobile, hard kills, you should be able to adapt to anything.

List 2 :x has no really mobile unit. You would have to cope with the opponent's ideas.

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Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:38 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
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I used this list back in January, in a 64 player tournament noted for extremely hard armies. I took a balanced approach and won the event!



Pump up the Volume! - Old Skool Style!!

Arabella - Level 2 Sorceress(General) - Sacrificial Dagger, dispel scroll 185pts
Angellina - Level 2 Sorceress - 2 null talismans, power stone 185pts
Master (BSB) - dark steed, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, lance, Hydra Banner 206pts

15 Warriors - musician 93pts
10 rxbs 100pts
10 rxbs 100pts (includes the lucky Zombie mascot!)
5 Harpies 55pts
5 Harpies 55pts

5 Shades 80pts
6 Cold One Knights - full command, Banner of Hag Graef(ASF), ring of Hotek 262pts

War hydra 175pts
Army total 1496pts


I beat Wood Elves with a Treeman, Ogre combat army, nasty tricked out Daemon combat army, DOW with Asarnil and his dragon, nasty tricked out magic heavy Daemon army and drew the last game with a Skaven SAD army fielding 25 Jezzails!


Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:48 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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Hey, I'm going to the same tournament, I might steal your list 1:twisted: , but this was my original idea
Master on cold one with 3 null stones
bsb, just the same
cauldron
dark riders, harpies, 2 COK units (ROH) and a hydra
Maybe a litle to magic defense...

See you in Dendermonde 8)
(btw, it's the 5th of april 8) )

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Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:13 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Well, let's hope for a nice bloody battle then :P
I must admit that i like your list a lot as well, DA, but magic + me = miscast. I don't know why, I don't throw 4+ dice at all spells, but the ones just tend to turn up everytime I throw something for magic XD

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Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:31 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Word of warning though. Dark Alliance's lists are not mindless point and click lists, they are hard to use properly but deadly when done right.

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Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:39 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
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Dalamar wrote:
Word of warning though. Dark Alliance's lists are not mindless point and click lists, they are hard to use properly but deadly when done right.


Ahh thank you :D


Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:43 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)
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@ Dark Alliance : I was wondering...where did you put the sorceress with the 2 null talismans ?

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Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:54 pm
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I should know Gary, I'm trying to learn using a balanced list and it's working so so... getting draws and minor wins mostly (and getting massacred the rest of the time :P)... but I can see the potential there.

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:08 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
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In the crossbows


Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:10 pm
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Shade

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What I would field at 1500

330 Master on Manticore - Deathpiercer, Armour of Darkness
215 Master BSB on Dark Peggy - Blood Armour, PoK

55 5 harpies
55 5 harpies

92 5 Dark Riders - Musi, RXB
92 5 Dark Riders - Musi, RXB


262 6 CoK - FC, Ring of Hotek, Standard of Slaughter
217 6 CoK - FC, Null Talisman
175 War Hydra


You'll be incredibly fast, and hard hitting.
All you really need to care about is magic, and with the RoH and a NT on your CoK's, and your very high speed..you shouldnt have that much trouble.
Both of your masters can tear apart War machines or casters easily, but can also avoid magic because of their 20" flying move.
6 CoK's with Standard of Slaughter can tear appart infantry blocks easily. Specially when supported by other units like DR or your hydra..but also alone, dont underestimate that unit.


Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:13 pm
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Mictian wrote:
What I would field at 1500

330 Master on Manticore - Deathpiercer, Armour of Darkness
215 Master BSB on Dark Peggy - Blood Armour, PoK

55 5 harpies
55 5 harpies

92 5 Dark Riders - Musi, RXB
92 5 Dark Riders - Musi, RXB


262 6 CoK - FC, Ring of Hotek, Standard of Slaughter
217 6 CoK - FC, Null Talisman
175 War Hydra


You'll be incredibly fast, and hard hitting.
All you really need to care about is magic, and with the RoH and a NT on your CoK's, and your very high speed..you shouldnt have that much trouble.
Both of your masters can tear apart War machines or casters easily, but can also avoid magic because of their 20" flying move.
6 CoK's with Standard of Slaughter can tear appart infantry blocks easily. Specially when supported by other units like DR or your hydra..but also alone, dont underestimate that unit.


Probably a bit too single minded, and it wll die horribly to heavy mgic or shooting. The hydra is the only thing with any stamina in the list.

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Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:25 pm
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hey Ive tried to come up with a list that stays away from magic

Master
BSB, Full Mundane armor, Pok, Soulrender

Sorceress
2x Dispel Scrolls

10 RxB
shields
10 RxB
shields
5 harpies
5 harpies
5 Dark Riders
RxB

15 BG
ASF banner, ring of hotek, CmD

5 Cok
musician

5 cok
musician

1 war hydra

the idea would be to have the BG in the center with the ring and BSB, screened by the harpies. The RxB providing fire support while the 2 CoK units take one flank and the hydra another, with the dark riders hunting down mages and war machine crews. And the sorceress would just be scroll caddy, with whom you may not even want to cast with as the ring will hurt your already poor luck with magic. hope you enjoy


Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:45 am
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Morathi's Favoured
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Dalamar wrote:
I should know Gary, I'm trying to learn using a balanced list and it's working so so... getting draws and minor wins mostly (and getting massacred the rest of the time :P)... but I can see the potential there.


We can work on that today then if you like at GW.


Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:23 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Thats what i am finding. I can get the minor/major wins but it is pushing it to get the massascres. I am getting better at more wins apart from the GW GT. Blanace is the key thought.

nice list mate.

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Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:33 am
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This will be the list I am fielding:
Master, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Lance, Manticore
Blood Armour, Crystal of Midnight
340 pts.

Master, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Lance, Cold One, BSB
Pendant of Khaeleth, Sword of Might
185 pts.

5 Dark Riders, Mus
92 pts.

5 Dark Riders, Mus
92 pts.

5 Harpies
55 pts.

10 Crossbowmen, Shields, Champion
115 pts.

5 Cold One Knights, Standard, Champion, Standard of Slaughter
202 pts.

5 Cold One Knights, Standard, Champion, Ring of Hotek
192 pts.

5 Witch Elves
50 pts.

War Hydra
175 pts.

Total: 1498 pts.

Do you think it would be better to drop the Crossbowmen and get more Dark Riders and a nice banner on the other CoK/a nice item on the other CoK champion instead?

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Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:19 pm
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Rule of Burning Iron, will remove both of your champs and the ring quickly.



I would leave the RXB in as my 10 to 40 are always useful.

I would actually try to get get a hag and manbane onto the witches. My hag yesterday killed a couple Saurus on the charge, overran into a stegadon and did a couple wounds to finish it off, and destroyed the rallied Saurus when they charged, but didn't pick her out.

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Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:18 pm
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Hayaa, it has been the 5th of April!!! I wrote down a more detailed report of the tournament yesterday evening, but it went lost as I wanted to post it, so here a quicker runthrough, I went for the list posted above:

First battle VS Daemons of Chaos
He had:
Tzeentch LVL 2 General with master of sorcery
Nurgle Herald on Palaquin, BSB, 50-pt bound spell
Slaanesh LVL 1 Herald with Siren Song
19 Daemonettes with Standard
16 Plaquebearers with Standard
14 Horrors
5 Seekers
6 Flamers

I will just discuss some of the highlights of the battle. First of all, I used my crystal on the horrors, with him rolling 1-2-3... Pity. The Tzeentch guy took fire by the way, and the slaanesh got the first spell, stupidity. His seekers were charged by dark riders, to be killed, and his daemonettes by Cold One Knights with SoS and Hydra in the front. He Sirensonged the harpies in as well. He had ASF, but only killed one harpy in the flank, leaving me the opportunity to kill about 6 of the beauties. They poofed a bit, and after his next turn they were gone. Then the Manticore and Harpies flank charged the Horrors with general, and they poofed over two turns as well. The hydra toasted 5 plaquebearers with one shot, and in the meantime, the BSB had survived 49 flamer shots only to take one wound and hold them up in CC. He then was joined by my witch elves to finish the job. All he had left in what was about turn 4 were the plaquebearers with his herald. I failed stupidity with my hydra, that had gotten stupid by the loss of the apprentices because of some Daemonette attacks in that combat (about half of my army was stupid in the meantime because of natural stupidity, loosing apprentices, or this slaanesh spell: 2x CoK, BSB, Hydra, Harpies, Manticore... that's more than half my army :P). And therefore I lined my hydra, CoK and manticore up in front of his block in order to make him charge all if he wanted to charge any of them. He did not take the gamble and I charged in next turn with my hydra that went stupid again, I believe. The hydra and knights only inflicted one wound on the big palanquin (I placed my manti out of contact to prevent poison from killing my precious mount) and one of the cold ones finished the job. He got sick however and it was said that the cold one was killed by a plaquebearer. I think he just had to throw up however.
Anyway, I lost the combat and fled to rally again. After this I charged in with some other troops I had left and slaughtered the unit.

Units lost:
1 Unit of DR's (due to magic, 2D6 S4, he rolls 12 hits -_-')
1/2 Unit of ringbearer (due to magic again)

MASSACRE!

Second battle VS Dwarves
Some kind of semi-gunline... hmmm... I could win this...

Thane, General, unknown items
Thane, BSB, unknown items
Runesmith, unknown items
13 Warriors, GW
13 Longbeards, GW
20 Hammerers, FC, unknown items
2 Bolt Throwers, probably both +1 Str, one flaming
1 Grudge Thrower, items unknown
1 Organ gun

This time I had to play on the only table with hills in the tournament. It seemed like he would take the hill with his warmachine, so I deployed accordingly, hiding my manticore behind terrain, using my hydra as missile magnet (he did pretty good, read further). One unit of Dark Riders was to attack the BT he deployed at his left flank.
His turn: movement. He does not move his troops at all, and fires his BT's to the hydra. Both miss. The grudgethrower tries to shoot at it as well, but misses.
I did not get to use my crystal this battle, so started with stupidity tests. The army accepted to take over my commands and I made a general approach, moving the BSB at full speed to the enemy lines together with the hydra.
His turn: he shoots again, misses again. Lucky me. The organ gun shoots at the BSB but misfires and blows itself up. In my turn my manticore gets frenzied and charges the hill with the artillery. The dark riders kill of the other BT on the other flank in a couple of turns as well. the hydra and BSB charge the warriors in the flank and kill them. Cold One knights slaughter the longbeards. My harpies go in front of his hammerers to prevent a flank charge in my manticore. This was a summary of something about the 2-4 turn, in which he managed to charge the BSB in the rear with his hammerers as well. (had to overrun, sniff, sniff) I am very lonely at the table and plan everything to charge the returning hammerers in the next turn. He comes back, my CO's go stupid, so I decide to wait another turn and flame with the hydra. He kills 10 of them and my opponent concedes.

Units lost:
1 BSB
1 unit of Harpies

MASSACRE!

Final battle for the 1st/2nd place! (up until now I have scored 72/75 tournament points, being able to get another 25 for my last battle)
VS Orcs & Goblins

The list:
Black Orc Big Boss, Martog's best basha, brew to make stupid/frenzy/hatred
Night Goblin shaman, items unknown
Orc Shaman, 'itty ring
20 Big Uns
14 Black Orcs
13 Arrer Boyz
20 Night Goblins, 2 fanatics
5 Savage Orc Boar Boyz
5 Squig Hoppers
Doom Diver

The BSB has to go for the doom diver, that's for sure... and that's what happened. In the first turn I use the crystal on his Night Goblin shaman, who looses a spell (still having a D6 S2 no asv, the orc had re-rolls in combat and a S5 hit on one model) and the harpies take a suicide dive towards the goblins to lure out any fanatics, and come to discover that two of their companions are to be found hidden in the dirt. One of the fanatics raced through the Big 'Uns a couple of times after this, the other was killed by another suicide action of the brave harpies (who landed on top of him to kill him). His turn brings an irresistable miscast for his NG shaman (Go, ring!), and he has to cope 2 S3 hits, which he doesn't. That's the first dead goblin for now. In the second turn the BSB charged the Doom Diver and the crew fled. No more doom diver (he didn't inflict any wounds in his one turn he could shoot). The manticore went over my left flank to be able to charge the Big 'Uns in the flank and take some cover of the there present terrain, and the Big Orcies didn't pass the terror test and fled a bit. Far enough to get out of my charge range. Somewhere around here the Squigs also charged my BSB to get killed and overrun by him. In his turn the Savage Orc Boars had to charge the hydra who lost by -1 but held his ground due to the re-roll of the BSB, and in the next turn the hydra munched his opponents, to charge the Black Orcs in the front together with my manticore in the flank in my third turn. He declared a tad late that his general had been able to have been stupid..., and rolled a 5 for his brew making him frenzied and hatred. I actually should have forbidden him the use of it as it might have had a big influence on my tactics (luring etc), but I allowed him to use it, assuming the manticore would eat him in the challenge. This didn't happen. I inflicted just one wound with my 4 KB S5 WS5 attacks and 3 S6 WS6 attacks, both with hatred. He, on the other hand, inflicted 4 wounds on my hero with all of his 4 attacks. The hydra killed another three black orcs, but this was a lost combat for me and both monsters fled. The manticore ran never to come back again and the hydra rallied again. After this the guy underestimated the power of a possible combined rear charge in his black orcs by Dark Riders and the BSB, and did it all wrong. Next turn my CoK with SoS could charge the Big 'Uns in the flank, which they didn't like, the Dark Riders and BSB could charge the Black Orcs in the rear, which they didn't like, and my other dark riders could charge the Arrer Boyz in the flank, which they didn't like.
Result: Dead Orcs.
The only thing he had left were his couragious Night Goblins. I don't know if we had played the full six turns, but we agreed to finish it here.

Units lost:
1 unit of Harpies
1/2 unit of the Ringbearer (magic again..)
The manticore + general
Half the Hydra

MASSACRE!

I got in total 97/100 points at the tournament, so kicked ass pretty good. Thank you all for your valuable input, and may the Lord of Murder be with you!

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Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:03 pm
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Well done !

Nice to see the other races being taught there place n the world :)

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Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:03 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Well done!!

Weren't you worried that you may get magic/shot to death if you drew the wrong opponent? (HE for example)


Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:52 am
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Well, it might be that this list is very light in magic defense and shooting defense, but I learned that it defends itself by its offensive side: If the enemy brings magic, one of his mages will loose a spell, when he casts for example a fireball at my manticore (something that came up some times, together with the S5 of the Orcs), the MR will be enough to dispell it together with one die of the pool, and the ring will take care of spells that are cast with more dice. Besides, it will not hurt that much if I loose some models to magic, as I have a big army for 1500 pts. I have too many targets for the mages.
For shooting it is the same: the Dwarven guy was a bit unlucky, but if he had shot down my manticore and hydra, which was highly unlikely, my BSB and Dark Riders would be able to mop up his warmachines.
High elves would not be such a problem as I would be able to hide my manticore behind my hydra, which has a 4+ regeneration save against all his shooting. After this they both (ok, hydra maybe a bit damaged) would be able to set up for a charge in the next turn and make his shooting ineffective in about turn 2-3

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Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:11 pm
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Hey Ehakir, congrats on the wins! Great result! Thanks for the great reports, nice to read them.

I like your list. What units did you find most/least useful in your list?

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Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:12 pm
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Every unit was actually equally useful during the tournament, except for the crossbowmen who have fired approx 10 times during all the battles.
The manticore for being a threat to the enemy and being able to get to the rear of his army to make him consider turning around
The harpies for killing the fanatics and redirecting the dwarf hammerers and giving me the possibility to outmanouvre the seekers in the first battle which I couldn't have done just with DR's
The dark riders for killing of seekers, bolt throwers, black orcs, plaquebearers, annoying the hell out of my enemies and doing the dark rider tricks
The Cold One Knights (especially with the SoS) for totally being able to kick ass! the CoK unit with the ring hadn't seen much combat as the tables were a bit small, but I wouldn't have swapped them for anything else. They kept pressure on the enemy's lines to prevent them from turning around, together with the Hydra who skirmished through my battle line
The witch elves for mopping up the flamers and plaquebearers and scaring the hell out of my dwarven opponent. Besides they made their point cost worth it by taking a table quarter each battle
The BSB for coping 49 flamer shots, killing flamers, plaquebearers, dwarven warriors, goblins, squigs, black orcs, anything in his path, whilst my opponents did not really suspect it. Ok, the daemon player said the second time he shot at him with his flamers (S&S) that it probably wouldn't do a thing
The Hydra for killing 5 plaquebearers and 10 hammererers in two breaths, for being able to run through terrain, and being a very good missile attractor by surviving. On top of this he killed many, many creatures. Also for being able to rally on his 'mediocre' ld 8 vs the Daemons and Orcs

And yeah, the crossbowmen... for taking the tablequarter the witch elves would otherwise had to capture. I think it was due to the small tables that they underperformed, but it was pretty difficult to manouvre all my troops in a proper way and keep LOS for my crossbowmen, so I decided not to mind them. In the first battle they stood on a hill however and could shoot plaquebearers... they shot one during the battle I believe. And when they got the chance to kill the tzeentch herald that was on his own one turn, they did not even hit him (10 shots, needing 6's to hit)

All in all, it all supports each other in a great way. The dark riders make for example up for the lack of manouvrability the CoK have. And so do the other units complement each other very good.

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3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win.


Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:09 pm
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