It Was Magic Heavy... An Experiment with Balance.
Moderator: The Dread Knights
It Was Magic Heavy... An Experiment with Balance.
Magic Heavy: An experiment. For 2250pts.
Supreme Sorceress @ 365pts
Level 4 with Pendant of Khaeleth, Focus Familiar and Life taker.
Mount: Dark Pegasus
Master @ 175pts
Equipped with Caledor’s Bane, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak.
Mount: Dark Pegasus.
Sorceress @ 185pts
Level 2 with Sacrificial Dagger and Dispel Scroll
Warriors @ 215pts
25 warriors with Full Command, War Banner.
Warriors @ 120pts
20 warriors.
Corsairs @ 125pts
12 Corsairs with Musician.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 repeater crossbowmen with shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 repeater crossbowmen with shields.
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 dark riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician.
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 dark riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician.
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies.
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies.
Shades @ 108pts
6 Shades with Great Weapons.
Cold One Chariot @ 100pts
Cold One Chariot @ 100pts
Reaper Bolt Throwers @ 100pts
Reaper Bolt Throwers @ 100pts
Totals @ 2247pts
Models = 112
Power Dice = 8 Dispel Dice = 5 + 1 Scroll.
Essentially I want to move away from corsairs for now and focus more on magic which has been playing on my mind for quite some time, and I wanted to make a balanced list of sorts which excels at shooting and magic yet has some combat power to back it up if things get hairy.
The army will advance slightly into favourable positions allowing the chariots to guard flanks whilst the fliers and cavalry get to work on harrassing,march blocking and taking out enemy shooters/fast cavalry.
General plan is pound them with magic and bolts and then let their weakened forces patter upon my spear wall, with the corsairs merely in here to justify the massive 80+ corsair models I own (and that doesnt include the new models I just bought ) I suppose their slaver rule could come in handy as a flanking unit and they aren't that bad in combat either so will support a flank.
So really I want to know what others include in their magic lists and see what happens? I don't want to use Black Guard because I'm sick of people groaning whenever they see that unit and its innevitable ASF Ring of Hotek mass produced fun. I tossed up CoKs over the Chariots and maybe even a Hydra because Terror is fun but then it would really be taking the essence away from magic/shooting.
So opinions on Knights over Chariots, Hydra, the DP Master and any other hints would be greatly appreciated.
Oh and the dagger! I want to know if its worth it or should I turn the naked spear elves into a proper FC, Shield unit and mount the Sorc on a DS to roll with some DRs?
C&C appreciated.
Zardock.
Supreme Sorceress @ 365pts
Level 4 with Pendant of Khaeleth, Focus Familiar and Life taker.
Mount: Dark Pegasus
Master @ 175pts
Equipped with Caledor’s Bane, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak.
Mount: Dark Pegasus.
Sorceress @ 185pts
Level 2 with Sacrificial Dagger and Dispel Scroll
Warriors @ 215pts
25 warriors with Full Command, War Banner.
Warriors @ 120pts
20 warriors.
Corsairs @ 125pts
12 Corsairs with Musician.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 repeater crossbowmen with shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 repeater crossbowmen with shields.
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 dark riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician.
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 dark riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician.
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies.
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies.
Shades @ 108pts
6 Shades with Great Weapons.
Cold One Chariot @ 100pts
Cold One Chariot @ 100pts
Reaper Bolt Throwers @ 100pts
Reaper Bolt Throwers @ 100pts
Totals @ 2247pts
Models = 112
Power Dice = 8 Dispel Dice = 5 + 1 Scroll.
Essentially I want to move away from corsairs for now and focus more on magic which has been playing on my mind for quite some time, and I wanted to make a balanced list of sorts which excels at shooting and magic yet has some combat power to back it up if things get hairy.
The army will advance slightly into favourable positions allowing the chariots to guard flanks whilst the fliers and cavalry get to work on harrassing,march blocking and taking out enemy shooters/fast cavalry.
General plan is pound them with magic and bolts and then let their weakened forces patter upon my spear wall, with the corsairs merely in here to justify the massive 80+ corsair models I own (and that doesnt include the new models I just bought ) I suppose their slaver rule could come in handy as a flanking unit and they aren't that bad in combat either so will support a flank.
So really I want to know what others include in their magic lists and see what happens? I don't want to use Black Guard because I'm sick of people groaning whenever they see that unit and its innevitable ASF Ring of Hotek mass produced fun. I tossed up CoKs over the Chariots and maybe even a Hydra because Terror is fun but then it would really be taking the essence away from magic/shooting.
So opinions on Knights over Chariots, Hydra, the DP Master and any other hints would be greatly appreciated.
Oh and the dagger! I want to know if its worth it or should I turn the naked spear elves into a proper FC, Shield unit and mount the Sorc on a DS to roll with some DRs?
C&C appreciated.
Zardock.
Last edited by Zardock on Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Join the Shrine of the Serpent today!
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
- Rabidnid
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm
- Location: The Tower of Dust
Basically I can't see a reason not to use corsairs over spears.
For your core I would keep your current harpies and DR, but replace the spears with a 21 strong unit of corsairs with the SS standard. You can put your dagger sorc in the unit without worrying about her fleeing off the table due to panic. Just keep the corners of your RXB units in front of its corners so she can see to cast, but the unit can't charge anything. 2 or 3 units of 10 RXB is good.
Rares. I like the hydra over the chariots, as its not stupid and can move though woods like a skirmisher. It is the ultimate flanker.
RBT are ok, but I would go with an assassin or another sorceress for the same points.
You peg noble is OK but mine has armour of darkness, a crossbow and a halberd for 169. The sorcs kill high armour targets with lore of metal, and the assassin uses the rending stars on high toughness. This leaves the DP master to generally harass and run down things in the enemy rear, and if its the general it gives your DR and harpies Ld 9.
I would go with 3x lvl 2 over a level 2 and a lvl 4, the one with ToF takes dark, and the other two take lore of metal. I should be possible to get the dagger, ToF, the familiar, Lifetaker or the seal of ghrond and 2 SD scrolls on the 3 of them.
Basic plan is to use the ItP corsairs as dagger food for the first couple turns and then shift the sorc to an RXB unit and then release the corsairs to do their thing later in the game. If thr enemy has a lot of magic or shooting you might have to put both non familiar sorceresses in the corsairs, then move them out later when the corsairs are needed for melee.
Everybody else does their thing, but watch out that the hydra dosen't get stuck in combat and isolated. Your DR and the DP master will help there.
For your core I would keep your current harpies and DR, but replace the spears with a 21 strong unit of corsairs with the SS standard. You can put your dagger sorc in the unit without worrying about her fleeing off the table due to panic. Just keep the corners of your RXB units in front of its corners so she can see to cast, but the unit can't charge anything. 2 or 3 units of 10 RXB is good.
Rares. I like the hydra over the chariots, as its not stupid and can move though woods like a skirmisher. It is the ultimate flanker.
RBT are ok, but I would go with an assassin or another sorceress for the same points.
You peg noble is OK but mine has armour of darkness, a crossbow and a halberd for 169. The sorcs kill high armour targets with lore of metal, and the assassin uses the rending stars on high toughness. This leaves the DP master to generally harass and run down things in the enemy rear, and if its the general it gives your DR and harpies Ld 9.
I would go with 3x lvl 2 over a level 2 and a lvl 4, the one with ToF takes dark, and the other two take lore of metal. I should be possible to get the dagger, ToF, the familiar, Lifetaker or the seal of ghrond and 2 SD scrolls on the 3 of them.
Basic plan is to use the ItP corsairs as dagger food for the first couple turns and then shift the sorc to an RXB unit and then release the corsairs to do their thing later in the game. If thr enemy has a lot of magic or shooting you might have to put both non familiar sorceresses in the corsairs, then move them out later when the corsairs are needed for melee.
Everybody else does their thing, but watch out that the hydra dosen't get stuck in combat and isolated. Your DR and the DP master will help there.
"Luck is the residue of design"
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
You don't really need PoK on the Supreme if you have Focus Familar. One or the other does the trick easily, especially if you use harpies as shooting screen for her (as she's not a large target).
Instead you can give her 2 null talismans that will protect her from magic not requiring LoS and it will also protect the pegasus from untimely death to some extend.
Instead you can give her 2 null talismans that will protect her from magic not requiring LoS and it will also protect the pegasus from untimely death to some extend.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Thanks Dalamar I think I will switch the PoK for 2 Nulls as you said.
Rabidnid, using frenzied corsairs in a list which really doesnt want to manoeuvre seems like a tactical disadvantage to me, agreed their being Immune to Psychology would help with the dagger but I really like spears for that because their cheap and the level 2 will be killing 3 models max a turn so I may just:
Increase the Spear unit to 25 and add shields.
I want to add an assassin, but i really haven't used a Level 4 mage in a while and want to see what can be dished out by her, if she doesnt perform I will swap her for 2 level 2s and see if the increased spread of my magical abilities helps somewhat.
As to the Hydra, alot of people would not like me for taking it, and to fit it in I would have to drop the Chariots which are also an experiment in their effectiveness, or my beloved RBT which never failed me in 6th, and I'm hoping they will triumph again in 7th.
Will update list when I get the chance I have to run to lecture now.
Rabidnid, using frenzied corsairs in a list which really doesnt want to manoeuvre seems like a tactical disadvantage to me, agreed their being Immune to Psychology would help with the dagger but I really like spears for that because their cheap and the level 2 will be killing 3 models max a turn so I may just:
Increase the Spear unit to 25 and add shields.
I want to add an assassin, but i really haven't used a Level 4 mage in a while and want to see what can be dished out by her, if she doesnt perform I will swap her for 2 level 2s and see if the increased spread of my magical abilities helps somewhat.
As to the Hydra, alot of people would not like me for taking it, and to fit it in I would have to drop the Chariots which are also an experiment in their effectiveness, or my beloved RBT which never failed me in 6th, and I'm hoping they will triumph again in 7th.
Will update list when I get the chance I have to run to lecture now.
Join the Shrine of the Serpent today!
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
- Rabidnid
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm
- Location: The Tower of Dust
The biggest problem I had running this style of list was the lack of ItP troops to take on deamons and VC. You only have the choice of witches, corsairs with the SS banner, CoK, CoC, BG and a BSB with the dread banner. Bacause of their stupidity, my CoKs failed time and again, leaving me with just my hydra. I've added witches since, and they have performed beautifully, hitting as hard as BG with the hag's MB attacks, at half the cost.
As for the Sac Dagger, she needs to be in a useful unit that is a bit oversize, otherwise the points you are spending on anything she dosen't knife is wasted. Mine are usually shielded RXB out of an oversized RXB unit. You can give her the pearl as well, so she can use whatever unit she is in, even if it is only a 10 man RXB unit.
As for the Sac Dagger, she needs to be in a useful unit that is a bit oversize, otherwise the points you are spending on anything she dosen't knife is wasted. Mine are usually shielded RXB out of an oversized RXB unit. You can give her the pearl as well, so she can use whatever unit she is in, even if it is only a 10 man RXB unit.
"Luck is the residue of design"
The biggest problem I had running this style of list was the lack of ItP troops to take on deamons and VC.
I would probably not run this style of list at tournaments in NZ where most Daemons and VC armies pop up. My main opponents I see will be Tomb Kings and WoC Tzeentch, maybe some Skaven and non broken Vampire Counts thrown in aswell. With the lack of large amounts of real fear causers there (ok TKs have alot but they can be dealt with) I think my army will perform well enough.
Is the only thing you have against spearmen their lack of ItP, they are great for SCR imo and they just add some numbers to your army in case.
I do see your point for the Sac Dagger though, if i diminish a spear unit below useable strength then they will be wasted points...
If I ever did go to a tourney I would not aim magic heavy because I cannot see it being effective, I would rather take my corsair army which is much more balanced and I know how it works, or I would take a dragon/manticore Lord list.
List still in progress, thanks for the tips Rabidnid, so you would say that Metal is the best lore to take majority of the time?
Join the Shrine of the Serpent today!
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
- Rabidnid
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm
- Location: The Tower of Dust
Zardock wrote:List still in progress, thanks for the tips Rabidnid, so you would say that Metal is the best lore to take majority of the time?
You can change lore depending on your opponent, but that said, versus any but DoC it will have its uses. I pretty much ony use Dark and metal now. Dark has some great spells, but the ability of metal to allow you to direct attacks as specific model with your default metal spell is very useful. Verus WoC and lizzies it makes killing off characters, death works well for tht as well..
It also lets you kill off Ring of Hotek users which is a nice ability as well.
Last edited by Rabidnid on Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Luck is the residue of design"
Quick Note: Your current total comes to 2292 not 2247, I think you forgot to add a few things (DR are 117 each not 112 and your Supreme Sorc comes to 400)
I enjoy seeing lists that are magnified by Core...however, you must test the theory of such units, when we have special units that does what Spearmen/Corsairs do...only better (and a tad more expensive). I am not a big fan of the spearmen blocks other then servicing your sorceress. I wouldn't mind seeing you swap the sorceress' and have the High Sorceress in a spearmen unit with sac dagger. It would save points and allow your other sorceress which has less utility with the dagger to focus on more intimidating targets with her 2 spells and life taker while on a dark Pegasus.
The Chariots do absolutely nothing for me. I would love to see a War Hydra instead..which would also save 25 points. Without going into much depth, its a lifesaver and its potential is near guaranteed and not hindered by stupidity or unlucky rolls on the charge. I really wish they had stayed the same and not improved in anyway. Perhaps a cheaper point total as well.
If your idea is to pummel with shooting... i would heavily suggest march blocking with two units of 5 Shades and insert more crossbowmen. They are my current favorite Core unit next to Harpies in most of all Warhammer. I don't think that Spearmen will guarantee a victory by any stretch...because they are so very frail.
I would agree with Rabidnid in that if you end up using Corsairs...You HAVE to use the SS Standard. You could use a harpy screen to avoid having to charge...and their prowess is enhanced with that extra attack (plus hatred!)
In addition, if you end up using corsairs...the BEST compliment is a small unit of executioners. I could end up seeing a nice little 7 man flank next to a unit of corsairs doing wonders for your sit and wait approach.
I enjoy seeing lists that are magnified by Core...however, you must test the theory of such units, when we have special units that does what Spearmen/Corsairs do...only better (and a tad more expensive). I am not a big fan of the spearmen blocks other then servicing your sorceress. I wouldn't mind seeing you swap the sorceress' and have the High Sorceress in a spearmen unit with sac dagger. It would save points and allow your other sorceress which has less utility with the dagger to focus on more intimidating targets with her 2 spells and life taker while on a dark Pegasus.
The Chariots do absolutely nothing for me. I would love to see a War Hydra instead..which would also save 25 points. Without going into much depth, its a lifesaver and its potential is near guaranteed and not hindered by stupidity or unlucky rolls on the charge. I really wish they had stayed the same and not improved in anyway. Perhaps a cheaper point total as well.
If your idea is to pummel with shooting... i would heavily suggest march blocking with two units of 5 Shades and insert more crossbowmen. They are my current favorite Core unit next to Harpies in most of all Warhammer. I don't think that Spearmen will guarantee a victory by any stretch...because they are so very frail.
I would agree with Rabidnid in that if you end up using Corsairs...You HAVE to use the SS Standard. You could use a harpy screen to avoid having to charge...and their prowess is enhanced with that extra attack (plus hatred!)
In addition, if you end up using corsairs...the BEST compliment is a small unit of executioners. I could end up seeing a nice little 7 man flank next to a unit of corsairs doing wonders for your sit and wait approach.
This list is fast becoming a best of all phases in my eyes, the more I listen to the feedback the more I am attempting to integrate all 3 phases into my army. In my mind however I'm not sure if this can be done.
Basics is that I will take roughly:
Lord on Manti:
Its big its KB and it hurts.
Sorceress on DP with Focus familiar
Sorceress on foot with Tome of Furion
Corsair Block 1 with Serpent Standard
Corsair Block 2 with Warbanner
*maybe* Assassin for one of these units.
2 units of Harpies
1-2 units of Dark Riders
2 units of Crossbowmen
Black Guard/Execs not to sure atm
Shades (always needed in my eyes they truely are magnificant) maybe I'll take 2 small units
Hydra
2 RBT
Somethings will obviously be taken out but the above is a list that can excell in combat, shooting and has the magic to back it up. Also contains 2 terror causers...
I know that the high level magic has changed so I'm going to edit the title to represent this.
Again I'm squeezing this in any more comments from the veterans would be much appreciated, I am working on a list but today has been pretty hectic what with lectures and a test i forgot about, seems to me that there are not enough hours in the day.
Zardock.
[EDIT] Didn't want to add another post to include my list so here it is:
Ok I actually managed to come up with one that has some of the things I mentioned above. Hope you like it.
Balance is a fine thing indeed 2250pts
Dreadlord @ 420pts
Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Seal of Ghrond
Mount: Manticore
Sorceress@ 180pts
Level 2 with Darkstar Cloak and Dispel Scroll.
Sorceress @ 185pts
Level 2 with Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll.
Assassin @ 146pts
Add. Hand Weapon, Manbane, Rune of Khaine.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Banner.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, War Banner.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Executioners @ 84pts
7 Executioners.
Shades @ 108pts
6 shades with Great Weapons.
Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100pts.
Total 2252pts
This has enough Shooting and Magic to whittle my opponents down and also maneuvre to set up combi-charges on their weakened units and with DRs and Shades a mobile firebase/warmachine destroying extravaganza.
The RBTs maybe become a Hydra at some point, If I feel that a really static element to the army is not needed.
CnC appreciated.
Basics is that I will take roughly:
Lord on Manti:
Its big its KB and it hurts.
Sorceress on DP with Focus familiar
Sorceress on foot with Tome of Furion
Corsair Block 1 with Serpent Standard
Corsair Block 2 with Warbanner
*maybe* Assassin for one of these units.
2 units of Harpies
1-2 units of Dark Riders
2 units of Crossbowmen
Black Guard/Execs not to sure atm
Shades (always needed in my eyes they truely are magnificant) maybe I'll take 2 small units
Hydra
2 RBT
Somethings will obviously be taken out but the above is a list that can excell in combat, shooting and has the magic to back it up. Also contains 2 terror causers...
I know that the high level magic has changed so I'm going to edit the title to represent this.
Again I'm squeezing this in any more comments from the veterans would be much appreciated, I am working on a list but today has been pretty hectic what with lectures and a test i forgot about, seems to me that there are not enough hours in the day.
Zardock.
[EDIT] Didn't want to add another post to include my list so here it is:
Ok I actually managed to come up with one that has some of the things I mentioned above. Hope you like it.
Balance is a fine thing indeed 2250pts
Dreadlord @ 420pts
Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Seal of Ghrond
Mount: Manticore
Sorceress@ 180pts
Level 2 with Darkstar Cloak and Dispel Scroll.
Sorceress @ 185pts
Level 2 with Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll.
Assassin @ 146pts
Add. Hand Weapon, Manbane, Rune of Khaine.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Banner.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, War Banner.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Executioners @ 84pts
7 Executioners.
Shades @ 108pts
6 shades with Great Weapons.
Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100pts.
Total 2252pts
This has enough Shooting and Magic to whittle my opponents down and also maneuvre to set up combi-charges on their weakened units and with DRs and Shades a mobile firebase/warmachine destroying extravaganza.
The RBTs maybe become a Hydra at some point, If I feel that a really static element to the army is not needed.
CnC appreciated.
Join the Shrine of the Serpent today!
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
Zardock wrote:This list is fast becoming a best of all phases in my eyes, the more I listen to the feedback the more I am attempting to integrate all 3 phases into my army. In my mind however I'm not sure if this can be done.
Basics is that I will take roughly:
Lord on Manti:
Its big its KB and it hurts.
Sorceress on DP with Focus familiar
Sorceress on foot with Tome of Furion
Corsair Block 1 with Serpent Standard
Corsair Block 2 with Warbanner
*maybe* Assassin for one of these units.
2 units of Harpies
1-2 units of Dark Riders
2 units of Crossbowmen
Black Guard/Execs not to sure atm
Shades (always needed in my eyes they truely are magnificant) maybe I'll take 2 small units
Hydra
2 RBT
Somethings will obviously be taken out but the above is a list that can excell in combat, shooting and has the magic to back it up. Also contains 2 terror causers...
I know that the high level magic has changed so I'm going to edit the title to represent this.
Again I'm squeezing this in any more comments from the veterans would be much appreciated, I am working on a list but today has been pretty hectic what with lectures and a test i forgot about, seems to me that there are not enough hours in the day.
Zardock.
[EDIT] Didn't want to add another post to include my list so here it is:
Ok I actually managed to come up with one that has some of the things I mentioned above. Hope you like it.
Balance is a fine thing indeed 2250pts
Dreadlord @ 420pts
Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Seal of Ghrond
Mount: Manticore
Sorceress@ 180pts
Level 2 with Darkstar Cloak and Dispel Scroll.
Sorceress @ 185pts
Level 2 with Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll.
Assassin @ 146pts
Add. Hand Weapon, Manbane, Rune of Khaine.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Banner.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, War Banner.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Executioners @ 84pts
7 Executioners.
Shades @ 108pts
6 shades with Great Weapons.
Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100pts.
Total 2252pts
This has enough Shooting and Magic to whittle my opponents down and also maneuvre to set up combi-charges on their weakened units and with DRs and Shades a mobile firebase/warmachine destroying extravaganza.
The RBTs maybe become a Hydra at some point, If I feel that a really static element to the army is not needed.
CnC appreciated.
Going on the front and saying that I am not very keen on an uncontrollable and very vulnerable mount. I love Crimson death, but you are guaranteed the charge with proper placement (20" charge). I would love to see a standard Lance and perhaps some defense (regen or reverse ward save).
If I were you, and just speculating, I would drop the Lord, make your general a sorceress and add an additional sorceress (to keep with your defensive approach) a Cauldron of Blood, or a Hydra.
Those Dark Riders come to 117. Check the book again...
also for 5 more points, you can swap out rune of khaine and get Rending Stars instead. Keeps with your theme and adds soo much more versitility to your list. Yes, it ends up being a little cookie cutter to lists you have seen....but there is a very good reason why people take this buttercup.
I really appreciate your efforts in revising this list. Shows that you care, and show us that our comments are valuable. Keep it going!
- Marauder mitch2
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If you are going with a manticore the extra hero slot should be used as it is one advantage over a Dragon.
The only unit i can see for that is the 2nd corsairs with the warbanner. They could give you a 14 BG with a standard for smoke and mirrors and pretty much do a better job, or you can get more magic with a 3rd level 2.
The only unit i can see for that is the 2nd corsairs with the warbanner. They could give you a 14 BG with a standard for smoke and mirrors and pretty much do a better job, or you can get more magic with a 3rd level 2.
DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM
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Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Those Dark Riders come to 117. Check the book again...
ZZZ sorry man I checked and though 17+5 =21 goddamn maths hahahaha =D
I'm not playing defensively with this list anymore I should probably have said that, seeing as I've switched out from my high magic phase to a balanced list I'm going to be playing a tad more aggresively.
I may just squeeze in a CoB though that would be interesting and would definately help my list out.
@Marauder Mitch2, If i drop the 2nd Corsair unit I can get 14 bog standard BG with a banner, is that what you are suggesting? I'm still not sure with the manticore to be honest, I'd much rather have my lord on foot with some BG to carve everything up so I may rework the list, yet again and see what I can chuck out there.
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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
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- Rabidnid
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Zardock wrote:Ok I actually managed to come up with one that has some of the things I mentioned above. Hope you like it.
Balance is a fine thing indeed 2250pts
Dreadlord @ 420pts
Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Seal of Ghrond
Mount: Manticore
Sorceress@ 180pts
Level 2 with Darkstar Cloak and Dispel Scroll.
Sorceress @ 185pts
Level 2 with Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll.
Assassin @ 146pts
Add. Hand Weapon, Manbane, Rune of Khaine.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Banner.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, War Banner.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Dark Riders @ 112pts
5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Executioners @ 84pts
7 Executioners.
Shades @ 108pts
6 shades with Great Weapons.
Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower @ 100pts.
Total 2252pts
This has enough Shooting and Magic to whittle my opponents down and also maneuvre to set up combi-charges on their weakened units and with DRs and Shades a mobile firebase/warmachine destroying extravaganza.
The RBTs maybe become a Hydra at some point, If I feel that a really static element to the army is not needed.
CnC appreciated.
Lord I would go with AoD, PoK, CD and a null talisman for maximum defense. The AoD means you actiually get a 5+ ward save from the PoK versus RoBI
You are losing the unit strength of 5, some KB attacks and terror, but it is a much easier to hide, and more controlable mount.
Drop the RBT for a hydra and the points saved from your lord to add another sorc. 3 lvl 2s rock.
I do think adding the extra level 2 will add more than the loss of the manti takes away.
You do need to stay under 2250 if you are going to a tournament, so best plan for that now.
"Luck is the residue of design"
It's here, the list you all helped me to create.
Rabidnid you've made me come full circle and become magically heavy once again, yet I believe that the list is still more hitty in combat than previous, it may be lacking a tad in shooting now but still with 5 units of Crossbow totting lads, I'm sure that I'll be ok.
Hoping to have alot of fun with this list, looks like there will be some tactics involved in the maneuvering for charges etc.
Without futher ado:
Balance is a fine thing indeed 2250pts
Dreadlord @ 225pts
Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Pendant of Khaeleth.
Sorceress @ 147pts
Level 2.
Mount: Dark Steed.
Sorceress@ 180pts
Level 2 with Darkstar Cloak and Dispel Scroll.
Sorceress @ 175pts
Level 2 with Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll.
Assassin@ 171pts
Add. Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death, Black Lotus.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Banner.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, War Banner.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Dark Riders @ 139pts
6 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Dark Riders @ 139pts
6 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Executioners @ 84pts
7 Executioners.
Shades @ 108pts
6 shades with Great Weapons.
War Hydra @ 175pts.
Total pts 2253pts
I know 3 points over, I will fix this if I ever find a tourney around but atm it is sweet for friendlies at the club.
Thanks to everyone but especially Rabidnid who's continual effort has really shaped the list and helped me make something that isn't usually being run at my local. I may get good sportsman at my next tourny just for not running Double Hydra, Unkillable Dragon Lord and ASF BG with RoH.
I'm looking forward to that
Now to go forth and blast things out off the face of the board with.. The Power of Darkness
Cheesey one liner complete
Thanks all
Zardock.
Rabidnid you've made me come full circle and become magically heavy once again, yet I believe that the list is still more hitty in combat than previous, it may be lacking a tad in shooting now but still with 5 units of Crossbow totting lads, I'm sure that I'll be ok.
Hoping to have alot of fun with this list, looks like there will be some tactics involved in the maneuvering for charges etc.
Without futher ado:
Balance is a fine thing indeed 2250pts
Dreadlord @ 225pts
Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Pendant of Khaeleth.
Sorceress @ 147pts
Level 2.
Mount: Dark Steed.
Sorceress@ 180pts
Level 2 with Darkstar Cloak and Dispel Scroll.
Sorceress @ 175pts
Level 2 with Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll.
Assassin@ 171pts
Add. Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death, Black Lotus.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Banner.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, War Banner.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Dark Riders @ 139pts
6 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Dark Riders @ 139pts
6 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Executioners @ 84pts
7 Executioners.
Shades @ 108pts
6 shades with Great Weapons.
War Hydra @ 175pts.
Total pts 2253pts
I know 3 points over, I will fix this if I ever find a tourney around but atm it is sweet for friendlies at the club.
Thanks to everyone but especially Rabidnid who's continual effort has really shaped the list and helped me make something that isn't usually being run at my local. I may get good sportsman at my next tourny just for not running Double Hydra, Unkillable Dragon Lord and ASF BG with RoH.
I'm looking forward to that
Now to go forth and blast things out off the face of the board with.. The Power of Darkness
Cheesey one liner complete
Thanks all
Zardock.
Join the Shrine of the Serpent today!
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
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- Highborn
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Zardock wrote:It's here, the list you all helped me to create.
Rabidnid you've made me come full circle and become magically heavy once again, yet I believe that the list is still more hitty in combat than previous, it may be lacking a tad in shooting now but still with 5 units of Crossbow totting lads, I'm sure that I'll be ok.
Hoping to have alot of fun with this list, looks like there will be some tactics involved in the maneuvering for charges etc.
Without futher ado:
Balance is a fine thing indeed 2250pts
Dreadlord @ 225pts
Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Pendant of Khaeleth.
on foot i honestly don't see this guy getting into the game enough to justify his 225 points cost. also, why go for crimson death over soulrender? you have a good armour save and the pendnat so the initiative isn't gonna be a issue, and the armour piercing will be helpful against knights and the like (and its cheaper)
Sorceress @ 147pts
Level 2.
Mount: Dark Steed.
Sorceress@ 180pts
Level 2 with Darkstar Cloak and Dispel Scroll.
Sorceress @ 175pts
Level 2 with Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll.
I'd maybe swap the tome girls scroll to the DS sorc, and then try to squeeze a powerstone onto the tome girl, so you can sneak through power of darkness at the end of a magic phase and use the generated dice to cast the whatever nice spells shes got.
Assassin@ 171pts
Add. Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death, Black Lotus.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, Sea Serpent Banner.
Corsairs @ 190pts
14 Corsairs, Full Command, War Banner.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Repeater Crossbowmen @ 110pts
10 Crossbowmen with Shields.
Dark Riders @ 139pts
6 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
Dark Riders @ 139pts
6 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows and Musician
im not entirely sure these need to be 6's. maybe drop one from each unit to free up the points to make a few changes?
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Harpies @ 55pts
5 harpies
Executioners @ 84pts
7 Executioners.
Shades @ 108pts
6 shades with Great Weapons.
War Hydra @ 175pts.
Total pts 2253pts
I know 3 points over, I will fix this if I ever find a tourney around but atm it is sweet for friendlies at the club.
Thanks to everyone but especially Rabidnid who's continual effort has really shaped the list and helped me make something that isn't usually being run at my local. I may get good sportsman at my next tourny just for not running Double Hydra, Unkillable Dragon Lord and ASF BG with RoH.
I'm looking forward to that
Now to go forth and blast things out off the face of the board with.. The Power of Darkness
Cheesey one liner complete
Thanks all
Zardock.
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
I still think the smaller corsair unit should be replaced by 14 BG with a standard, Also the lord needs a mount a Dark steed would benefit his equipment and make him more flexible. You can free the points by dropping a rider from each of the units. Also with the extra points you can get a BG champion with a null stone and use it as wizard bunker as people will assume the ASF banner.
DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM
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Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Both Corsair units are the same size but I assume you mean the Warbanner unit?
Ok I think that perhaps the DRs could go down to 5 again and with the suggestions tone the list up. 14BG with Standard are the same price as 14 Corsairs with FC? I just wouldnt have expected that I will check my AB next time I get.
Ok I think that perhaps the DRs could go down to 5 again and with the suggestions tone the list up. 14BG with Standard are the same price as 14 Corsairs with FC? I just wouldnt have expected that I will check my AB next time I get.
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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
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Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
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- Rabidnid
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Zardock wrote:Both Corsair units are the same size but I assume you mean the Warbanner unit?
Ok I think that perhaps the DRs could go down to 5 again and with the suggestions tone the list up. 14BG with Standard are the same price as 14 Corsairs with FC? I just wouldnt have expected that I will check my AB next time I get.
Meh, just move one of the dispel scrolls to the girl on the DS and then give one of your girls on foot the the pearl of infinite bleakness, and you have a better bunker without spending money for new figures.
As noted above, the points on your lord don't add up, he either has a null talisman you haven't listed or a dark steed you have under pointed by 3 points.
15 spare points plus the 2 DR gives you 59 points.
Putting your lord on a dark steed, a familiar for your mounted sorc and giving the pearl to one of your foot sorc costs 68 points.
You could drop 2 exe and make one of the remaining a champ. They don't need to be 7 wide as they are mostly hitting flanks, and the champ will let you get by with one box of 5 exes.
That will make up the 3 points you were over and cover the 9 points you are short.
If however you want black guard, go for it, but make them a combat unit with banner of murder rather than baby sitters.
"Luck is the residue of design"
The Dread Lord is actualy exact thank you very much.
Dreadlord + CD + AoD + PoK = 225 =D
So I'm not sure why my points are off. Though a dark steed would help I'm sure.
I won't keep the exes at 7 I'll drop em to 5 with champ for the mo, and not even bother with the BG atm because I dont really need them.
edit: No need for points costs, we all know how much each component costs by itself. After all we all own a copy of Druchii army book
Your friendly mod, Dalamar
Dreadlord + CD + AoD + PoK = 225 =D
So I'm not sure why my points are off. Though a dark steed would help I'm sure.
I won't keep the exes at 7 I'll drop em to 5 with champ for the mo, and not even bother with the BG atm because I dont really need them.
edit: No need for points costs, we all know how much each component costs by itself. After all we all own a copy of Druchii army book
Your friendly mod, Dalamar
Join the Shrine of the Serpent today!
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
Brotherhood of the Coast!
Zardock (Group 27)
Class: Trainee of Khaine
WS:4 / S:5 / T:3 / D:4 / I:2
Equipment: Short sword and Dagger, 50g in a pouch.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Uncontrollable Frenzy
The Keeper of the D.net Battle Records.
- Rabidnid
- Malekith's Best Friend
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- Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm
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Zardock wrote:The Dread Lord is actualy exact thank you very much.
= 225 =D
So I'm not sure why my points are off. Though a dark steed would help I'm sure.
I won't keep the exes at 7 I'll drop em to 5 with champ for the mo, and not even bother with the BG atm because I dont really need them.
Whoops, you are correct, you better delete that before GW see's it though and closes us down as we aren't allowed to post individual points costs.
I'd decided that the dread was 125 for some reason, without looking it up.
Otherwise it should all work pretty much as planned. I run a very similar list and my magic always dominates
"Luck is the residue of design"