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tactics for this list 
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Dark Rider
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:48 pm
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Location: somewhere......
hey all
after reading the thread about where the tactics in this forum have gone i've dicided to make a list that's not uber cheesy ( i hope) and needs decent tactics to survive... the list

hero-------------------------------

malus darkblade @ 275 points

core----------------------------------

5 darkriders w/rxb @ 110 points
5 darkriders w/rxb @ 110 points

special-------------------------------

Cok w/ standardbearer @ 151 points
5 shades w/ great weapons @ 90 points
5 shades w/ add hw @ 85

rare-----------------------------------

war hydra @ 175 points

total 996

it's a very fast list and can deal out a punch but also very fragile and most important no magic/magic defense: this is becouse i didn't want magic for this list and at thousand points i find it safe not to use it

so you have two options
1. ''you're nuts where's my ubah deathstar???!!!!'' and leave the topic or
2. use the strong points and minimise the weak points by posting a nice tactic for this list

Gramash

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I was once a dwarf, but then a big dragon appeared. I rose my axe,ready to fight, but the rider said:come to the dark side...
we have cookies!
Well i couldn't resist that!
Now i am the mighty general of a dark elf army MUHUHAHA (still need to work on that evil laugh though)


Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:26 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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gramash wrote:
so you have two options
1. ''you're nuts where's my ubah deathstar???!!!!'' and leave the topic or
2. use the strong points and minimise the weak points by posting a nice tactic for this list

Gramash



Against a conventional melee oriented list it will do OK. Malus lacks a ward save so is vulnerable to spells that don't allow saves. You also lack in shooting because you have small specialist units for your shooting that are themselves vunlerable to both shooting and magic.

I can't actually suggest any tactics for it as my own 1,000 point magic and shooting list would wipe it out in 2 turns.

I would drop a shade and a DR for two core units of spears, corsairs or RXB to give the list some resilience.

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Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:18 pm
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Avoid combat. This is a shooty army. 40 shots a turn is quite decent for a 1k army and it is mobile enough to run around and drain out the points of enemy units until they are weakened enough to make a combined Shade+CoK charge (however leave the banner at home and buy an extra shade or something)

You can actually use this army in 3 teams.
Team 1: DR's. Takes 1 flank and does all those things DR's do.
Team 2: Shades+CoK. Takes other flank.
Team 3: Hydra+Shades: Takes centre line accompanies by your general.
Alternatively the army can dedicate fully to 1 flank and press forth having the shades come in first in turn 1 supported by DR's in turn 2 and finally the rest comes in at turn 3. Against some lists this approach can have you dedicate your full force to a part of the battlefield and break away before your enemy can dedicate the same amount. And your manouvrebility allows you to stay close to danger but far from harm.

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Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:19 pm
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Rabidnid already pointed out to the weakest point of this list - it lacks resilience (and due to this, it is vulnerable to shooting and magic). Now some thoughts regarding the ways to minimize the impact of this weakness:

1. Use terrain to screen your units, if it is possible (this, unfortunately, is not always an option, as some tables tend to have little terrain)

2. Use missile magnets to draw away enemy fire. Here you need to know very well what your plan for the game is.

2.1. If, for example, you plan to go around the flank of a dwarf army to hunt its awrmachines, then during the turns when your fast units are making the flanking manoeuvre, let the hydra come forward to receive some shooting from the thunderers and quarrelers - this will in many cases prevent the enemy from repositioning his shooters in such a way which would allow them to shoot at your vulnerable flanking units (most people simply can't resist the temptation to shoot at something when they can, and so if you give them a target, they will shoot at it instead of repositioning their shooters for shooting next turn).

2.2 If the enemy has mobile shooting/magic, then usually his shooters/mages are less resilient (e.g. archers, skirmishers, or fast cavalry with move-and-shoot weapons). Against such enemies, you should use target saturation combined with rushing. Put as many units into a position where they will be able to charge the enemy shooters next turn, taking into account that the enemy might be able to reposition (so you have to think of places where they are going to go, and cover those ones also, trying to deny them the possibility of slipping away - except of course if slipping away would mean that they can't shoot you either). Then, you charge in with whoever can charge, and destroy enemy shooters.

2.3. There are also shooters that are moderately mobile but at the same time reasonably resilient. Good examples are ranked units of shooters, DE rxbmen, flamers, horrors). Against such foes, you need to bring your own heavy hitters to guarantee victories in Close Combat. Usually, the enemy also knows this, so he will try to target those heavy hitters. Which means that you should screen those heavy hitters with your less heavy units on the turn when you enter the shooters' threat range before charging them. The units you can use for screening are naturally Dark Riders.

3. Against enemies that are not ranged-weapons heavy, you should do reasonably fine. Use your own shooting to eleminate the enemy's fast units, and then go around the flanks of his main blocks. The main blocks can be either strong with ACR or SCR.

3.1 Against ranked units (strong with ACR), combo-charge with one of your hammers (COK, Hydra) and a flanking unit of dark riders (which should be doable if you have eliminated the enemy's fast troops).

3.2 Against hammer units (like your own cok, chaos knights etc), screen your own hammer units from incoming charges with your dark riders (moving them into a position where they block the movement of the enemy, but angled in such a way that when the enemy charges, you either flee, making him pursue and expose a flank to your own hammers, or accept and make them overrun into a direction where they expose a flank to your heavy hitters (it depends on how much space there is between you and the enemy hammers - if there's enough space, then you can have the fleeing manoeuvre, but if there's little space, you often have to accept the charge and sacrifice you DR). Why is it important to get the flank of the enemy? Because then less enemy's models strike. If the enemy hammer is a monster, though, this is not relevant - the only relevant thing is that you would charge and hence get to strike first and get the +2 bonus for the lance (if your hammer is COK), as well as refuse the enemy any charge bonuses.

This, in a nutshell, is how I'd see this army playing.


Last edited by Lakissov on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:31 pm
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Great counselling, Lakissov!

I can only add two points:

1.resistance to shooting.
Half of the army is very resistant to shooting: hydra and CoK. Shooting them to death requires a much higher investment than their pts value.
Half of the army is very vulnerable to shooting: DR and shades. Shooting them to death requires less investment than themselves are worth.
Be prudent with the fragile ones not to expose them unless for a good reason.


2. shooting.
Your own shooting is significant but not overwhelming in quantity.
Worse, your shooters are the fragile ones.
The good point, it is excellent in accuracy (assuming that DR shoot at short distance), and, excellent point, it is fragmented in small amounts.

The good use of framented shooting:
Shoot with DR first (they are less accurate). If not enough, resume on the same unit, if it is enough, proceed to the next target.

Instead of playing guline facing guline, a clever way to use your shooters would be to hide them from most of the opposing shooters, using terrain or hydra & COK, and concentrate them on two units at a time. Progressively, the opposing shooting will be reduced.

Last counsel:
the hydra is often best used breathing rather than charging.
If ever doing so it get charged, it will resist, and your DR will get a flank-charge opportunity.

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Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:27 pm
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I would deploy my shades behind cover half way the field. my DR behind the hydra and the CoK. Move the DR to Where they can do what they do best.

The hydra and the CoK in a V formation where they can hold and let the hydra flame the enemys away and let the CoK charge when they can.

with a heavy shooting/magic army. I would not no what to do. I think a some what simulair tactic but then charge witch te CoK on his low Ld units. and use the dark riders, hydra to charge his shooting unit. The DR would go to his spellcaster.

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Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:44 am
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Dark Rider
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NICE very nice this is what i was hoping to see finaly some druchii tactics return i really love the way you cope with the weaknesses of the list and point out the good ones i hope people will be encouraged to make more lists without all the uber combo things and try new things and experiment i really like Lakkisov's post it really helped me and i'm actually thinking of using this in a few games to see if it works :P

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I was once a dwarf, but then a big dragon appeared. I rose my axe,ready to fight, but the rider said:come to the dark side...
we have cookies!
Well i couldn't resist that!
Now i am the mighty general of a dark elf army MUHUHAHA (still need to work on that evil laugh though)


Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:38 pm
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The main thing with your list is speed, so focusing the areas you want to pressure is the general plan. In a lot of games you will be out shot and you need you need to use the hydra as a missile focus and distract from the riders. Secenary and harpy screens are the best waty to protect the Cold One knights and not stupidity means the are easier to screen and you are not going to stumble into them.

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DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM


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My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer


Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:18 pm
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