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One for Calisson - some Corsair tactics I have used... 
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Morathi's Favoured
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I don't use Corsairs as often as I would like. The main reason for this is quite simply the cost. 20 Corsairs with full command and a magic banner is 250pts, whereas 180pts buys me 20 Warriors with full command, shields and a magic banner. That 70pt difference buys a whole lot of other stuff unfortunately...

Anyway, when I do use them I prefer either 20 with fc and Sea Serpent Standard, or 14 with standard bearer and Sea Serpent Standard. I like the frenzy banner a lot, preferring the immunity to psychology over the worry of whether or not they will get baited off in some random direction. They work very well running up a flank alongside the Hydra as they pose such an additional threat that an opponent struggles to decide which to deal with first. With both being very resilient to missile fire I find that they get to where I want them without too much trouble.

Lokhir is a good addition when allowed to use special characters. I have used his 'Daring Leap' ability to protect the unit when they have been charged in the side before now, gaining valuable extra attacks which have won me combats.

An Assassin is another good addition to the unit too. I like to 'feint' a mistake and offer their flank or rear and then reveal the Assassin once the enemy charge has gone in. Obviously you need an assassin kitted out for combat - ahw, rune of khaine and manbane - he works really well and allows you to advance the unit forward and not worry about enemy DRs or other forms of fast cavalry and flyers getting behind you.

All in all they can be used very aggresively in this manner, and when I have a COB in the army they just get even better. Adding a 5+W to their 4+ armour save makes them ideal for charging missile lines.

Another unit formation I use is 10 Corsairs with rhb and the Banner of Murder. I march them across the board in front of my Black Guard unit, straight at the target. Sometimes I will fight any opponent that charges them, rather than fleeing through the immune to psych BG. The armour piercing nature of the BoM helps their combat prowess against certain enemy units, but other times I will flee and draw the opponent into the asf BG. It's a blunt, unsubtle tactic but it works either way. I like it when the enemy is presented with a no win choice situation such as this.

Finally, I use units of 10 with rhbs to protect flanks on occasion. A self explanatory tactic.

Looking to the future, when I have finished my current Ice Warrior DE project I will be starting a raiding army built around Corsairs. I'm looking at ways of using 2 blocks of Corsairs, one with fc and sss, one with fc and a character most likely immune to psych. DRs in support along with 4 rbts, some Shades and some magic. It will be a painting project mostly but I do have some ideas of how to make it reasonably competitive I hope.

Thanks for reading.


Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:21 pm
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Dragon Lord
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I'm planning to test corsairs in two setups soon.

One is 18 (6x3) with Champ and Standard and SSS. 225 points sounds like a lot to someone who's been using 20 warriors with war banner for a measly 180 points for a while now but I ran some statistics and it turns out that when receiving a charge, the corsairs are only slightly worse than warriors (the amount of dead elves means that return attacks don't do too much damage from either one) while on the charge corsairs beat the snot out of warriors by a large margin (due to wider frontage and advantage of two hand weapons).

Second setup is 10 corsairs with handbows and nothing else, keep them as cheap as possible as shooting screen, protection on flanks from fast cavalry and such and if opportunity arises as extra few attacks and the slaver rule.

Deliberating assassin in the big block but looking at whole army it's either an assassin or a second hydra.

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Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:08 pm
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Welcome, DA, in the Brotherhood of the Coast! :D

I don't use corsairs that often either, except the 10 RHB unit (with muso for 105pts).
The more I think about this small unit, the more I am convinced it is a great denyer for the opponent: it denies shooting at a more precious unit, and it denies light harassers the ability to come close and do their job.


About a big unit of AHW corsairs, for the pts difference, you have more shooting resilience than shielded warriors, albeit no so good shielding in frontal melee. Depending on your opponent, one or the other may be more interesting.

A second difference is that warriors must face the threat to get their 4+save and +1 lance attack, whereas corsairs have the same armour than warriors on the sides but they get 2 attacks, or even 3 with the SSS.


I have to keep testing Lokhir. So far, not so good, but that was against ill-adapted opponents. I suspect he could do marvels with the boost of a CoB but I don't have a CoB.


The AP banner on RHB corsairs? I would be afraid to give up too easily 100 VPts if loosing combat. Your association with BG is probably a great use for that unit, but it may be the only good use.


Warm thanks for sharing your unmatched experience to the Brotherhood! :P

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Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:24 pm
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After several games I have found i prefer the big unit of Corsairs with SSS over the basic warrior block myself.
Yes they are substantially more expensive but i think they actually have the chance of killing enemy models and surviving the game which sort of makes up for it.
Being ITP and with 4+ saves from shooting and 3 attacks regardless of whether they are charging is worth it compared to Ld 8, 5+ saves and 1 attack on the charge.

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Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:33 am
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Quote:
One is 18 (6x3) with Champ and Standard and SSS.


This is one of my main units in my Cult of the Serpent, Corsair list, +KB or +1 attack and it is just sheer brilliance in a can. Also run another unit of 3x6 with Warbanner and a sneaky assassin.

The rhb corsairs I find superior to othet flank guarders, one unit babysitting the frenzy unit and blasting the hell out of any fast cav that comes a calling is fine by me :D .

Quote:
I have to keep testing Lokhir. So far, not so good, but that was against ill-adapted opponents. I suspect he could do marvels with the boost of a CoB but I don't have a CoB.


Oh CoB is quite nice with Lokhir my friend, as a fellow corsair player I highly recommend this if you want the most out of Lokhir, KB just compliments his many attacks so well, sure it is situational, but quite nice to charge a unit of chaos warriors or something very similar and just rev up the Crimson Blades to blend and roll 5 KB hits, and that was just from Lokhir never mind his corsair buddies.

And of course the perfect addition to corsairs is executioners though they are hard to fit in to the fluff, without a little tweaking.

Still my favourite unit, an old habit from the pre-edit 6th ed. AB, where shielded warriors and corsairs were the same cost, and yet I think they reward aggressive play so much better, and really who likes being on the defence the whole time!

It's nice to see the more experianced players using them aswell despite many vets I see around in NZ refusing to use them on principle.

Long live the Brotherhood of the Coast!

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Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:17 am
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Morathi's Favoured
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Calisson wrote:
Welcome, DA, in the Brotherhood of the Coast! :D

I don't use corsairs that often either, except the 10 RHB unit (with muso for 105pts).
The more I think about this small unit, the more I am convinced it is a great denyer for the opponent: it denies shooting at a more precious unit, and it denies light harassers the ability to come close and do their job.

Joe Sturge used to use this unit in his 'Suicide Elves' army and used them well. He just used to run at the enemy, and shot them as they charged it. The net goal was to reduce the SCR and ACR of enemy units before they hit his main battleline.

About a big unit of AHW corsairs, for the pts difference, you have more shooting resilience than shielded warriors, albeit no so good shielding in frontal melee. Depending on your opponent, one or the other may be more interesting.

Corsairs and Executioners are the poor cousins of the DE list imo, both suffering from last minute dumbass changes in the final playtesting list. Consequently they will always have to fight for their right to be included in a DE army when Warriors and BG are so much better options.

As we have a trend for tactics rather than uber combos burgeoning at the moment, I thought it might be fun to look at ways of furthering the cause of these two units.


A second difference is that warriors must face the threat to get their 4+save and +1 lance attack, whereas corsairs have the same armour than warriors on the sides but they get 2 attacks, or even 3 with the SSS.

Add in KB from the COB and they start to hurt real hard.

I have to keep testing Lokhir. So far, not so good, but that was against ill-adapted opponents. I suspect he could do marvels with the boost of a CoB but I don't have a CoB.


The AP banner on RHB corsairs? I would be afraid to give up too easily 100 VPts if loosing combat. Your association with BG is probably a great use for that unit, but it may be the only good use.

A lot of tournaments over here give 100pts for the army that captures the most standards, not per standard. It's a much better system imo as it helps certain armies by encouraging them to boost their SCR potential without worrying about giving away masses of extra vps.


Warm thanks for sharing your unmatched experience to the Brotherhood! :P


Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:39 am
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Quote:
while on the charge corsairs beat the snot out of warriors by a large margin (due to wider frontage and advantage of two hand weapons).


I'm a big fan of warriors in particular 135pts units without shields or magic banners. You can fit two of these units in for about the same cost of a unit of 20 corsairs with magic banner. I have found on a couple of occasions that it is better to have a 1 slightly harder unit than the 2 weaker one as corsairs should go through most basic infantry fairly easily on the charge this can make a big difference depending on how your list is designed.

I think the slaver rule is something that can be easily forgotten (I know i do) but it does add an extra valuable element particaurly if you are managing to get the charge on cavalry.

My most recent experience with Corsairs is using them in an all Core army. With the addition of the Cauldren and the frenzy banner they really are a unit to be feared.


Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:36 am
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I like running 2 x 18 corsair units with handbows, each one with an assassin (manbane, stars) and a wizard. I put my coldone lord in one unit aswell. This combo works great against things like stardragons and other large targets, as the corsairs can dish out close to 40 shots plus the stars.

Was never big on the handbows before, but after trying them out I'd never go back to 2 hand weapons.


Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:14 pm
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I've actually been considering getting some RHB corsairs for a while but was never convinced if they were worth it over say, a unit of RXB. Also I regularly use witch elves, are corsairs with frenzy banner better in a CoB list?
One advantage I do like is the stubborn on the witch elves but I can see how the armor on the corsairs is useful too.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:53 am
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Cold One Knight

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The poison on the witch elves means that they are less likely to get as many killing blow attacks if you give them the KB blessing. But they don't get the stubborn benefit from the cauldron, which really makes no difference as they will be frenzied until the moment they are in a bad way. but the big difference there is that you also can build them up with masters or hags, whereas the witches can only have added Death Hags as they are Khainite.

Also Corsairs are core, which might help sway your position. But the major difference in damage potential is dependant on having the Cauldron Blessing
Some things to consider.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:35 am
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I too have been working on a Corsair-themed army. However I'd been struggling with list building due to lack of tactical ideas/knowledge.

I also think a Cauldron is essential in an all-corsair army. You could even model it as a "Captain's Platform" and model a captain throwing out orders along with his officers.

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:24 pm
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Im really unsure about corsairs. never took them.

Their abilities are just too expensive for what they offer. the rhb isnt worth it imho. As screens i think 9 harpies are mutch better if you want to spend 100 points for a screen. 8 inch ! they move further then they shoot.

harpies, though ugly. dont cause panic! are flyers, -1 to hit. Far more flexibel in their movement

I think corsairs are only usefull as combat corsairs like 18 of them, with the SSS and the Strengt of khaine blessing.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:00 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
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We all know that fluff is not a good bed mate for competitive lists. Gw writes stories and it writes army books and ne'er the twain shall meet as the old adage says. The COB is the perfect buff to make Corsairs more viable than they are in their vanilla state. I like the idea of the Captain's platform though.

Personally, whilst I like theme where possible, I am happy in myself when I have to mix concepts/fluff to make a list work. For me, theme comes into it from a conversion/painting point of view, rather than fluff.

Looking at Corsair armies then, I think I would favour the following units as viable for the list, meeting a tenuous theme criteria as well as functionality:

Lokhir
COB - either as a stand alone or as a BSB. If you need a fluff reason it could be that the Raiders simply stole it!
Level 2 Sorceress
Assassin
Corsairs
Cheap units of Warriors as expendable units.
Dark Riders - lots!
RXB units
Harpies in abundance!
Shades - lots!
RBTs
Hydra
Lots of magic items. Raiders do steal tons of stuff after all!

I think a horde style army would have some great mileage in it, and as we have done with GeOrc's Temple of Khaine concept, I'm sure we could win some games with it.

Lokhir, a BSB COB and a couple of Level 2s with full magic item allowance is only 845pts. In a 2250pt list that leaves a whopping 1405pts to spend on the rest of the army. Serious firepower from 2 RBTs and 3 units of DR with rxbs still leaves 875pts to spend. 500 pts for 2 blocks of 20 Corsairs with fc and magic banners, 110 for 2 units of 5 Harpies and there are still points for a Hydra and a unit of 5 Shades with great weapons.

If you prefer, you could drop one unit of DRs and the great weapons from the Shades to fit 2 units of 10 naked Warriors in as additional harassing/diverting units. I kinda like this idea actually as it adds another 20 wounds to the army.

I think this would make for an enjoyable army to use against your friends. Not uber competitive against hardened tournament armies, but fun nonetheless. It would work by whittling down the enemy with magic and shooting, whilst using the large number of units to position the army, hoefully, for combined charges into the enemy when the time is right. The RBTs offer long range missile support, and the Hydra the much needed high strength combat attacks.

Should be fun methinks.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:38 pm
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Dark Alliance wrote:
Personally, whilst I like theme where possible, I am happy in myself when I have to mix concepts/fluff to make a list work. For me, theme comes into it from a conversion/painting point of view, rather than fluff.


Quoted for QFT. You can bring out any theme via modelling (EG: I use Daemonettes as Black Guard).

I think going Shade heavy can really up the competetiveness of the list. Say, one Shade unit to every block will give you a troubleshooter (to take out marchblockers) and flankers (I rarely scout more than 1 unit).

EDIT: Where do we stand on Dogs of War? I can see OK Ironguts fitting in well.

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Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:03 am
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Morathi's Favoured
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No Dogs of War for me, although I might be tempted by a Giant if it was as cheap as it is rubbish.


Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:31 am
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What do you think about a big corsair unit with an ASF-BSB instead of an assassin? Both have the task to give the unit some ASF-attacks when being charged.
Somebody said it should be not that good but I still don't know why.


Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:49 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
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I used it in a game once, along with Lokhir. It's effective but does commit a lot of extra points by way of the BSB, which is unnecessary imo.


Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:29 pm
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A good use for corsairs is as a screen, say.. 10 strong with hand bows, reaver with 2 handbows. Advance them infront of your hammer units. When enemy units get close, fan them out to 10 wide and stand and shoot.

If you want to go with a bigger corsair unit, an assassin with manbane and stars works best, i wouldn't bother with a BSB as he would be more useful in a more elite unit. Lokhir is a poor choice in a competitive game, hes too situational and at S4 hes only gonna kill lightly armored "Sally" troops.

I would still go with the handbows even in a big unit, the armor piercing banner is a nice touch. This works great against large targets, which most dark elf armies struggle to deal with. With an assassin with rending stars/manbane, a corsair unit should be able to laugh off a frontal charge from just about anything.


Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:54 pm
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