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Tactics against the Vampire Counts 
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Trainee Warrior
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Greetings all I'm fairly new and this is my first created topic.

I am to face Vampire Counts next week and I have yet to face them in this edition (though I faced them back at 6th many a time) any tips you guys can offer? Any weak spots I could employ?

I know that my opponent wants to go magic heavy and he most propably will also be using a wight.

We always play under ETC rules btw...


Thanks

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Fri May 08, 2009 9:15 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I have no doubt a quick search will answer this question ten-fold!


Fri May 08, 2009 2:14 pm
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Corsair
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In addition to what phierlihy wrote:
did you check the D.R.A.I.C.H.?
It's on top of the tactics forum.
It is filled with hyperlinks to interesting threads.
If you go down enough, you'll find a section named:
know your enemy
with a couple of links to threads tending to answer your question.

If, after reading that, you're still in need of help, state it in your next post, and tell us the specific problem you have, and what army you plan to play with.
I'm sure there will be some help offered.

So welcome among the thread-creators!

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Last edited by Calisson on Sat May 09, 2009 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri May 08, 2009 4:24 pm
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Shade

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:49 pm
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Although the senior members above have the best intentions in mind, I haven't contributed to the DRAICH or the related threads in its links, so I'll make my contribution here.

Shooting in general will become almost useless. In fact, strategies that rely on killing troops will, for the most part, fail. You have to kill the Vampires, there are no Victory Points to be had unless.

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41540

Here is a link to an excellent breakdown of common Vampire hero builds and some clues to discerning them and finding the vulnerabilities. The idea here is that most good players will protect their generals so hunting the head will be incredibly difficult in the beginning. Killing Heroes is something like landing body shots to soften him up, and will certainly impact his magic phase with every dead hero.

However, logistics here are dictated by army builds, both his and yours. In this case, the DRAICH is a good source for our troop break downs and the links will be good for his. Please come back with more specific questions.

A staple of my anti-VC tactics has always been to refuse to waste dispel dice on Invocations. I will gladly allow my enemy to raise all the troops he wants and save my DD for Vanhel's and the other more dangerous spells.

In this situation, shooting could be valuable. However much shooting you have, choose valuable targets and focus fire. RnF troops are not the best targets, but things like fell bats can be. Even though they are skirmishers and the to hit penalties will be huge you could still hit them enough to bring down one or two, making him believe that he needs to raise them back, wasting his PD on Invocations and making his Danse castings easier to anticipate and to stop. He might get wise to this in later turns, but it's those turn 1 and 2 Danses that can really hurt.

Even Knights of both flavors and Vargulfs will fail their saves if you force them to take enough of them. But you'll need tons of shooting for this, not just RxBs but RBTs and Shades as well. A Rending Star Assassin will force some Heal castings on a Vargulf as well. But if all you take is a hand full RxBs, you'll probably be further ahead to rank them up and use them as redirectors.

Those are just my first thoughts. The link above is a really good resource that I've been studying since I found it. With that, the DRAICH and the search you have some real homework to do. If you still have questions feel free to ask.

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Fri May 08, 2009 5:47 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Not to derail the topic...but I totally did NOT say check Draich. While I do recognize the effort put into 'Druchii for Dummies", I do not think highly enough of it to endorse it. Sorry Calisson.

That was unnecessary; you are surely the only person who imagined that maybe we thought you endorsed the D.R.A.I.C.H. I'm partway inclined to just delete this here unnecessary post, but being evil I shall let it stand as an example of what not to do. Hey, kids, stay in school, don't do drugs, and don't make unnecessary posts. Layne be Gone.

Sorry if making my position clear leaves a bad impression on you.


Last edited by Phierlihy on Sat May 09, 2009 2:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Fri May 08, 2009 10:48 pm
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Noble
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Are Fell bats 2 wounded models?

If so then they dont get the -1 to hit modifier. That goes for everthing with a higher US then 1. even though their flyers and counts as skirmichers. The BRB on page 28 says that.


Fri May 08, 2009 10:51 pm
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Zenith wrote:
Are Fell bats 2 wounded models?

If so then they dont get the -1 to hit modifier. That goes for everthing with a higher US then 1. even though their flyers and counts as skirmichers. The BRB on page 28 says that.

The unit strength of a model/unit of models depends on the base sizes used. The amount of wounds does not affect unit strength in any way, unless the model in question is a monster or specifically says otherwise.

Getting back on topic, I'm pretty sure that phierlihy meant to use the "Search" bar, located on the upper right-hand corner of the screen. You can use this to search the forums for any relevant information on what you're looking for. You may get lots of hits when you search for something, but with a little dedication you'll find exactly what you're looking for. There are several other threads that can give you information on how to fight Vampire Counts, as well as several other armies.

Of course, if you don't want to spend the time searching through the forum, you can always check the DRAICH, as Calisson suggested. It has some interesting tidbits and other useful things that might come in handy. However, I'm afraid I will have to agree with phierlihy, and would suggest that you instead use the "Search" bar.


Sat May 09, 2009 1:04 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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willowdark wrote:
Shooting in general will become almost useless. In fact, strategies that rely on killing troops will, for the most part, fail. You have to kill the Vampires, there are no Victory Points to be had unless.



If you have a lot of shooting normally then it can contribute. I have left vampires standing by themselves by shooting his entire 20 skeleton unit away. One had been wounded with black horror, and then the unit reduced further by chillwind. 40 RXB shots later and both the vampire and BSB were standing by themselves in the middle of an open field :)

Ignoring his raising of skeletons and zombies is good advice, they are easy to kill and contribute very little. Hitting his vulnerable units with magic and shooting will help shape his plans to your own advantage.

The black coach counts as a chariot, so an S-7 rending star from an assassin can make it very sad.

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Sat May 09, 2009 2:25 am
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In all my game vs the vampires I found out that the best option you've is the melee combat. More and more are the points made by my Bg. In general, there are no weak points in a Vampire army, or better, even if he's not so good in combat he knows that he will stay there quite forever.

It really depends on the skills of your opponent and on a couple of choices that could make you wanting a certain type of army:
- Has he got the regen banner? If he's got it you'll necessarily need some extra killing blow to tear apart the bsb (best option here is the cauldron).
- Has he got the Helm of Commandment? If he has it you'll need different strong units to fight at the same time different units, so that he'll not be able to use the Helm on everyone and the bearer himself could be in hth.
- Has he got many ethereals or no ethereals? Ethereals become one of the major threat that the Vampire can pull out. If he's got a wraith unit it would be better take some "special" equipement to face them: I'd suggest the Lord with Hydra blade and potion of strenght on steed.

Above these consideration, the major strenght of the Vampire is that he can rise more and more models that you'll never be able to stop. In fact you could stop some evocations but you'll never stop everything, so the best way to end this madness is going early in hth or burn his magical characters. The first option is easier in my opinion as the opponent will not refuse the combat, thinking that he's quite invincible, but with some solid infantries you should threaten him very much.
Optimal units to deal with the vampires are:
- solid blocks of infantry, as like as 20 spears fc
- many elites units, as witches, bgs and coks (I suggest here to take a character with them, or at least the magical warbanner).

On the other side I do not share the idea of Rabidnid about the heavy fire, as it simply doesn't work for me.

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Sat May 09, 2009 10:54 am
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Warrior

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mobility, mobility and mobility....that is how i play VC......own the movement phase completely and who cares what he raises where...as long as your the one choosing battles then your odds are always greater to win...hydra's and BG are awesome....i use DL on dragon and Master on pegasus both with magic items so i can wipe out ethereal...especially if opponent makes an ethereal vamp.... I think shooting is awesome to bring Vs. VC....if you wipe out a unit then he cant heal it anymore so it can screw him big time if you wipe out skelly's and zombies from afar and never have to roll for psychology.
My friend I play more then anyone else always plays VC and he hates the dark elf so much now he has started playing me with high elves instead

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Wed May 13, 2009 4:22 pm
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If he is going magic heavy he may not take a ton of defensive items on his general, making it more likely you can kill him in combat.

I like to start with bolt throwers on the black coach and necro carts as there is no reason to be shooting troops. He will have to heal any elites you injure instead of a raising a billion troops.

The hydra can be good at taking out his heros as he cant escape by challenge and its a lot of high St attacks.


Thu May 14, 2009 5:53 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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I'd suggest lots of ranked up Spears and Black Guard. Magic wise I'd go with some sorceresses, one with the seal of Ghrond and one or two dispel scrolls. A Master with the Pearl of Infinite Blackness should keep your units from running away from the nasty fear causers. Dark Riders might be good in order to take away rank bonus' and swing combat in your favour.
Good Luck!


Thu May 14, 2009 8:27 pm
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Check D.R.A.I.C.H and bring lots of harpies!

Then, park said harpies 1" (or just anything really) behind engaged undead infantry blocks. Raise-spells does not work if there are enemies within 1" of the point of appearance.

Dyvim Tvar taught me that. Very useful tip.


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Mon May 18, 2009 9:37 pm
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Cold One Knight

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Does that same principal operate if you land beside the unit? as long as you are there they can't raise past the middle of the last rank I guess. Not that I am sure taht offers any substancial tactical advantage, but just checking it to be sure.


Tue May 19, 2009 12:17 am
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Dragon Lord
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They won't be able to expand the unit to the sides then. But as you have to land at least 1" away, they're free to raise the back ranks of the unit, as they will never be within 1" of you considering you couldn't be within 1" of them to begin with.

This also means they can raise back to the size they had when the harpies blocked them as harpies don't move during the enemy turn ;)

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Tue May 19, 2009 2:47 am
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Black Guard

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Kalthorn wrote:
Greetings all I'm fairly new and this is my first created topic.

I am to face Vampire Counts next week and I have yet to face them in this edition (though I faced them back at 6th many a time) any tips you guys can offer? Any weak spots I could employ?

I know that my opponent wants to go magic heavy and he most propably will also be using a wight.

We always play under ETC rules btw...


Thanks


A tough matchup, but the DE are very well equipped to deal with him. Do you have a general build of your list and his list? If so, I would suggest posting it, because it would allow us to give you specific tactics on how to beat him instead of a bunch of people giving the standard 'check draich,' answer. In the meantime, check DRAICH. :)


Tue May 19, 2009 7:08 pm
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