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Chaos Chosen? How would you handle this? 
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:03 pm
Posts: 237
There is this chaos player at my store who I am trying to figure out how to beat since we are both going to the same next two indys.

He has the basic 2 khorne knight units, 3 maurader horsemen, scroll caddy, and two warshrines.

I can deal with all of the above, my problems are:

1. His lord has the demon sword and is on a juggarnaut. I can try to killing blow him or just kill his unit and win through CR. Accept with a champ for the challenge and let him get his 6 points of CR.

2. This is the biggest issue. 20 Chaos Chosen marked with tzeench with the ability to adjust the table and the banner of rage. They are deployed 6 wide with another lord with a juggarnaut who has a few magical items (nothing special). What he does, is adjust the rolls into rerolling because it may be a gift he already has until he gets Divine Greatness. He can normally get it on turn 2 (we rolled it out about 9 times and it was either turn 1 or turn two). So essentially, they become stubborn with a 3+ ward save. Flanking doesn't make a difference, and just about any unit hitting them won't make a difference. My only thoughts is pouring bolt thrower shots into them before they get the ward save, but then I ignore all the fast cav and knights. The other one was just play point denial by baiting him into the woods and away from my force. This way I can take his knights apart piecemeal and not every worry.

Thoughts?


Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:22 am
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Warrior
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:04 am
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My regular opponent plays Tzeentch Chaos with a block of chosen... so I know how it goes.

Black Horror is nice and juicy on them.

Soul Stealer works too... you might need 6's... but it adds up.

Black Horror + Soul Stealer makes for a nice 1 2 punch.

Bolt Throwers could help too.


Otherwise Repeater Crossbows and LOTS of bolts into them. 20-40 shots a turn will whittle them quickly.


Alternately a Manticore rider to fly and flank. That rank busts... plus you have a good shot at stopping attacks back... and with killing blow + hatred on the manticore even a character will be nervous.

I try to flank the chosen with my Chaos Dward Lord on Great Taurus in my games aganst my friend... and it works very nicely.

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Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:32 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:49 pm
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Have you tried 1 L4 on Peggy and 2 L2 on Peggy with the Lore of Metal? Since they have high armour, Lore of metal is deadly against them.

You should Harpies and Dark riders to bait him to give you more time. Of course, you have to take out the fast cav as soon as possible so you won't have too much problem to keep your bolt throwers alive, keep in mind to not put them close one of another, so if they want to throw his knights at them, you could have flank shots.

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Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:49 am
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Daemon in Disguise
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I played an army that was very similar to this with my combat infantry DE army a few weeks ago, it went like this;

Leaving my usual tactic of "waiting back until i soften up the enemy" behind i marched my 13 BG /w Lord up and got charged by 5 Knights, Lord on Jugg and 17 Chosen /w ASF BSB, murdered the knights with my lord but fluffed with BG and got grinded over a couple of turns. I got a bit worried that i lost my main unit with lord so i just spent the remainder of the game killing everything else and breathing/shooting the chosen until there were none left, something i should have done from the get go but was over zealous and eager to get stuck in. To sum up really, avoid the chosen and kill everything else.

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Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:39 pm
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Noble
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I laugh at frenzy chaos knights, they make good practice for harpy baiting and flank charging CoK's.

Seriously though, rip everything else apart and just dance around his "uber unit of doom". Or just lead it towards some trees with your dark riders. :twisted:

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Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:19 am
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:03 pm
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Yea, the only thing I could think of is just hardcore baiting away from me so they are only moving 4 inches a turn. Also, since they are most likely deployed up center, I can place my entire army on the flanks and force him to turn to one side or the other.


Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:07 am
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Noble
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Post 
indeed, march block. and ignore,
With that i mean, focus more on other more easier targets.


Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:35 pm
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Shade
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Flank charge with 1 cold one knight unit will be good.


Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:25 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:36 am
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Location: NM, USA
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Interestingly enough, I was playing lunch-hammer with a friend who's just getting into the game. He wanted to play DE, so I played WoC (my two armies.) He ended up stuffing my chaos warriors (not chosen, but still had the mark of khorne!!) with spears after squeezing off the Word of Pain spell! Couldn't get a hit in, he got me on combat rez, I broke, etc, etc.

Other (somewhat obvious, I suppose) solutions:

Reapers
Dark Riders (good for causing failed charges for Frenzied WoC)
Assassins

One last observation: I stuffed the local chaos player when the WoC book came out with DE with the following combo:
Executioners in a unit with an:
Assassin, led by a:
Death Hag BSB w/ first strike banner backed up by:
Altar of Khaine

Which is to say, I stuck first with a high strength, killing blow unit, with extra attacks thanks to the altar of khain. It'll go through anything!!

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Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:12 pm
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Cold One Knight

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Flanking charging doesn't work against chosen with Stubborn and a 3+ ward. Tried it with the Hydra and he WIFFED because the ward save. Next turn, the character moved over and killed the hydra and got a free eye of the gods roll.

Best bet, ignore it and kill EVERYTHING else. Once everything else is dead, shoot and magic them in a final attempt to get them below S.

BTW: Baiting is really... really hard with this player. He seees baits coming and manuvers to stop it. It is possible, but I have to get him in a situation where he can't stop my baiting.


Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:14 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:36 am
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Location: NM, USA
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Oh, interesting, I missed the whole '3+' ward save. Ouch!

OK, his whole strategy depends on the two war shrines, yes? He's looking for that good roll. What about a manticore or dragon mounted hero/lord? Bait the chosed until you can get a charge in on the warshrines with said bad-ass. Even if you only get one, that might be enough to jam him up, looking for the good roll with only one shrine.

BTW, thanks for this. I'm having a hard time making my chaos army tick - it is seriously underpowered (for once.) I'm going to have to pull this one on my high-elf playing friend.

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Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:55 pm
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Executioner
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Dark magic + Marshblock.

When he finally came to you - bait him with harpies and smash his flank (COK's + blessing from COB is something that could not be underestimated).

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Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:59 pm
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Cold One Knight

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Well not entirely.

I rolled out with him what I thought would be our hardest hitting unit against him on the flank would be.

I hit him in the flank with a 7 wide executioner unit with a hag in it. That hag was a BSB with the Hydra banner. The unit had the AP banner. There was also a assassin in the unit with KB and rerolling 1s. On top of this, I blessed them with the cauldron for +1 attack.

I killed a grand total of 6 guys. They held and he moved his character to the flank to proceed to devastate the unit. Won the combat and then ran them down.

Magic doesn't work too well because they are already MR1. If he rolls right on the chart he could be MR3. It is very situational. But even with the 3+ ward, our magic isn't as effective as it should be.


Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:34 am
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Arnold Layne
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It sounds like avoidance is by far the best tactic. You'd be lucky to break them or wipe them out, so you'd better just stay away. All of your units are faster than his, so it shouldn't be too difficult. How is it that he prevents you from baiting him?

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Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:30 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Swab wrote:
2. This is the biggest issue. 20 Chaos Chosen marked with tzeench with the ability to adjust the table and the banner of rage. They are deployed 6 wide with another lord with a juggarnaut who has a few magical items (nothing special).
So you are playing at least 3000, right? You could easily go with 2 dragon lords. They could eat the knights one unit per turn , then kill the shrines. all the while you march block the chosen with DR. With 2 dragons and shooting/magic, you should be able to eat every last piece of his army except the big unit while losing not much of your own. that will net you an easy massacre.

BTW, well done to the chaos player for making a competitive infantry based army. I'm so bored of facing Tzeench magic, slaanesh marauder horse and knights.

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Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:50 pm
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