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Going without DR's/harpies 
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 27
Good evening gentlemen/ladies,

Mainly as a result of the prevailing ugliness of our DR and harpy models, I'm finding myself uninspired to model and paint them. As such, I'm considering running a druchii army sans these units. While I fully understand the tactical value of these staples of every druchii list, I'm looking for some input into how I could get away without them. To this end, I'll break down what I see as the roles of these units in play...

- War machine hunting: due to their speed and moderate combat abilities, both units are prime choices for killing war machines. Focus on harpies here.

- Redirecting: Either for just baiting nasty units away from a fight, or for pulling units in for a bait and flee combat.

- Killing light units/combat support: Especially the DR's here, with their hatred, spears, and rank breaking abilities, though harpies can add kills against light units like marauders.

As such, I'd want to replace my harpies and DR's with units that could fulfil these roles or mitigate the loss of these abilities. My first suggestion would be straight up replcements of units of 10 crossbows. They fulfil the role of killing light units, and could potentially be used for combat support (with shields). To some extent they can aid in putting down war machines (by picking off crew). Redirecting is going to be another issue, as they really lack that bit of speed.

Anyway, based off that kind of concept, what changes in units and/or playstyle would you guys use in this situation? Any experiences from the battlefield on working without these units? And yeah, I appreciate that there are other options for the harpy/DR models, but treat this as a theoretical :D

Anteater


Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:51 pm
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Shade
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:36 pm
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I haven't yet had a chance to use them...but Shades?


Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:59 pm
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Warrior
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:16 pm
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I'd say you've pretty much got the idea with your replacements, Although i'd still suggest you do take Riders and Harpies.

For redirecting units of 10 warriors can be useful, they don't have the speed of the other 2 options but they're cheap and most peaople will ignore them in favor of shooting at juicier targets.

A full rush foward in your face kind of approach with uber combat units might not require the subtlety of Riders or Harpies, but iv'e never tried it myself.

Only problem with that is there are frenzied models involved which will get taken on a wild gooses chase with being screened effectively. Handbow corsairs tend to do a fairly good job at that, or cheap warrior units.

I second the use of shades also.

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Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:04 pm
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Cold One Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:01 pm
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I solved your core issue (the models are ugly) in a completely different way...

My DR models are all actually silver helms and glade riders.. painted black and purple colors.. decorated with my leftover CoK bits to make them look more dark-elfy.

Best of both worlds.. nice looking models, plus I get to use DRs :)

My personal issue with the harpy models is they're too damn topheavy.. and too damn awkward to line up in neat rows when they get into combat. But I deal with this by handling them on a 5x5 movement tray.. up until combat but harpies' combats don't last longer than 1 turn one way or the other anyway... the awkward looking 'rows' won't be offending the eye for long.


Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:14 pm
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Noble
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:35 am
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Crazy idea, but one of our least appreciated war machine counters are our own Reaper Bolt Throwers. Firing volley, you can usually see off the crew or the whole machine itself after two turns of firing. Many of my enemy's war machines have been splintered to pieces by a hail of Druchii bolts.


Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:15 pm
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Corsair
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I'd recommend to take proxies, as fuzzydeath suggest, because I find both DR and harpies unvaluable.

However, if you decide to play without them, you could use:

- shadowblade
- an assassin inside a unit of RHB corsairs, moving half the way unnoticed and suddenly charging alone out of the unit (the cloak may help).
- a lone master on DR
- dragon or manticore or pegasus
- shoot them to death, using RXB and RBT, with shades so help march-block. Shades can be taken naked, or with GW (and an assassin tooled for KB).
- ignore the need for marchblockers/warmachines hunters: take a force made mostly of spear warriors (remember the "suicide elves"?). No elite, no worry to loose them!
- cover your elite with cheaper/more resistant corsairs (especially the RHB ones, they are good to get rid of light march-blockers).

Overall, the lack of DR/harpies is not enough to define a playable army!

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Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:59 pm
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Assassin
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The first thing that came to my head when reading you didn't wanted to use DR and harpies were: Khainite force. Look for example at GeOrc's armylist involving 2 CoB, it's really a nice list... although it has it weaknesses.

Otherwise, I also recommend using the ideas of the other people here, they are very good.

-Farodin

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Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:52 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I too would recommend a khainite force

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Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:39 pm
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Warrior
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:02 pm
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Calisson has suggested all of the alternatives I could think of.

I've got to say though, not fielding Harpies is a mistake. They are one of, if not the best redirector and warmachine/mage hunter in the game.

If your main problem with them is the models then might I suggest using Dark Age games Skarrd Harpies instead. They may be a little too futuristic for some people, but I like them and I've never had any negative comments about mine.

Image

You can see better images on their webiste.

And here's a link to the actual Harpies if you have trouble finding them.

Skarrd Harpies

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Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:36 am
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Personally, I don't think there is a real substitute for either Dark Riders or Harpies except to the extent they can substitute for one another to some extent. Going without is a big handicap in my book.

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Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:47 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 12:37 am
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I definetly appreciate the value of these units guys, thats not the issue. I've been running proxies for both for a long time, and find them invaluable. I'm just considering if there is a different way. As it is, I think I'll try doing a straight swap of 2x10 crossbows for my 2x5 dark riders in my current list. I'll be trying to use them aggressively on the flanks, or for war machine hunting (approximately 2 hits on crew when firing stationary) in concentrated fire.

Though I do think I'll keep the harpy proxies (currently 10 bases lol) for redirecting. Will be interesting to see how it goes! Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Anteater


Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:43 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:49 pm
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You cannot substitue DR or harpies with crossbowmen, they aren't fast enough to do the same job. Even Shades won't do the trick. Why? 1 reason: Fast Movement.

You cannot replace M9 or Flying (M20) with M5 from Shades or Crossbowmen, it's just impossible.

As TheDemolishedMan said, there's always a way to replace the models. For me, I don't hate the model itself, they are well done for the fluff. People kinda mistake harpies for succubi, which are two things that shares some similarities.

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Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:18 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Try using flying heroes, dark, pegasus are great, I'm a huge fan, especially 2 s5 hits on the charge. I belive are a must if your going for rxb, since thay can fly over to your enmy and block his march move.

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Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:32 pm
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Black Guard
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Flying characters are great for map control as they threaten so much with their massive charge range and strength. However they are expensive, and as a single model could potentially be shutdown leaving you at the mercy of your enemies movements. At 55 points harpies are really a steal and irreplaceable.

For the modeling you could try chaos furies, if the naked flying beast women look doesnt appeal to you, perhaps a more demonic look does?

I would never trade dark riders for crossbows, the fact the dark riders can give you 10 shots that can run up at close to range to an enemy unload and then continue to lead that enemy around is almost enough. On top of that dark riders constantly threaten enemy casters, warmachines, flanks, and frustrate your opponents frenzied units, not to mention baiting enemy chargers and forcing your opponent to redirect charges for your heavy hitters to pounce on.

As for modeling, you really can take any fast cav body, and just add on dar elf bitz to make it more druchii looking, i know people who take their cok mounts on darksteeds, it really is possible to find the look you want for your army with out sacrificing maneuverability.


Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:13 pm
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Black Guard
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If you are taking a fair bit of magic you can steed of shadows an assassin to take out warmachines or perform roles harpies may.

A unit of 5 CoK with musician might make a good bait and flee unit, they cant move after rally like fast cav, but they are fast, can take on light units, and people wont expect them as bait. Stupidity makes this a liability.

Spend the points you would have used for harpies and horsies to take rock hard infantry that can take charges head on instead of needing redirectors.. like ASF nastyness backed by a cauldron.


Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:21 pm
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