need help with Empire Knights

Thanatoz · Post by **Thanatoz** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:46 am

On the other hand, I'd not want to face a dwarf gunline with that terrain. Not saying your (Dark Haven) list is that bad, but with a true gunline army... nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:34 am

I've played with 2-3 and 6-7 (WAAY too much). and have found the games generally to be boring. 4-5 = perfect imo. (Bies)

Seconded

Dark haven · Post by **Dark haven** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:14 am

Even with the limited terrain we had in that game it would have not have been a problem if he had been more aggressive with his harpies and deployed his force better. I think a heavy flank would have been the ticket as he could have simply danced around me and sweep my arty off the board.

This weekend I think I will find an impartial third party who will set up terrain for us. I agree that rolling for is the best way but these are games designed to teach him, not crush him. We ain't in Ard Boyz just yet.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:32 am

Even with the limited terrain we had in that game it would have not have been a problem if he had been more aggressive with his harpies and deployed his force better. I think a heavy flank would have been the ticket as he could have simply danced around me and sweep my arty off the board.

This weekend I think I will find an impartial third party who will set up terrain for us. I agree that rolling for is the best way but these are games designed to teach him, not crush him. We ain't in Ard Boyz just yet.

Seconded too

Etancross · Post by **Etancross** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:27 pm

Dark Haven wrote:Even with the limited terrain we had in that game it would have not have been a problem if he had been more aggressive with his harpies and deployed his force better. I think a heavy flank would have been the ticket as he could have simply danced around me and sweep my arty off the board.

I think this is much easier said than done because if i would have done a flank on either side those cannons would have ripped me apart a lot worse than they did in the last game, need i remind anyone of my Hydra dying 1st shot of the game?

and im sorry theres no way in hell those harpies would have made it to those cannons no matter how aggressive i was, 2 units of str4 crossbows firing at 2 units of 5 harpies? A 5 man unit of COK's with a 2+ save couldn't make it so you guys think 2 units of harpies with no save would have made it? BS.. theres no way they could have taken out those cannons... no way.

Post by **Dalamar** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:37 pm

Empire Crossbows = BS3, hitting on 4+
Long Range, Skirmisher = hitting on 6
1 in 6 crossbowmen actually hit a harpy. out of 20 shots that's 3.3 hits. Those that do hit wound you on 3+ yes, meaning out of those 3 that hit, 2 wound.
2 dead harpies... And all they get is one round of shooting and then you're in their face, eating their cannon crews.

Dark haven · Post by **Dark haven** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:58 am

The cannons accomplished one thing, it shot down your hydra. The rest of the game consisted of them misfiring or overshooting their targets. The xbows were by far the deadlier of the two.

BTW, our battle will be fought on friday. So expect plenty of carnage. Here is my list that I intend to use:

Arch Lector = 231
-Great Weapon, Van Horstmann's Speculum, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Holy Relic

Warrior Priest = 156
-Dawn Armor, Hammer of Might, Barded, Shield

Imperial Battle Wizard = 150
-Level 2, Rod of Power, Ring of Volons

Imperial Battle Wizard = 150
-Level 2, 2x Dispel Scrolls

6x Knights Panther = 146
-Musician

6x Knights of the Blazing Sun = 146
-Musician

25x Swordsmen = 175 + 45
-Full Command, Detachment: 9x Halberdiers

24x Spearmen = 169 + 45
-Full Command, Detachment: 9x Halberdiers

21x Flagellants = 220
-Prophet of Doom

10x Crossbowmen = 80

10x Crossbowmen = 80

2x Great Cannon = 200

Mortar = 75

6x Pistoliers = 132
-Full Command, Champion w/ Repeater Pistol and Pistol

Helblaster Volley Gun = 110

I have thought about dropping the Arch lector for a General of the Empire and spend the extra points on more knights or detachments. But we will see. What will Nate use I wonder?

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:15 am

A good unit that I liked playing was this set up:

GoTE - sword of might, enchanted shield, holy relic, all armour, mounted on barded steed (0+As, 4+ ward, 3 str5 attacks).

BSB - Imperial banner, full plate, barded steed

Stick in a unit of 26 Swordsmen so with characters you get US30, give the swordsmen warbanner for Static CR 7.

Also your list is nice and good. Although I wouldn't bother with a Prophet usually unless you plan on sacrificing the prophet against a big nasty character so you get more R'N'F attacking then would otherwise be the case.

Also I'd look at mounting your characters, makes it far easier to run them to where they need to be or to dodge past the enemy etc.

Ben

Etancross · Post by **Etancross** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:19 am

Funny i seem to remember those cannons doing more than that and getting torn to pieces by shooting.... go figure

anyways this is my list:

the Hoard of Travesties - 2000

Lord - Ratajczyk 284 pts
Repeater Crossbow
Sea Dragon Cloak
Shield
Cold One
Crimson Death
Armor of Eternal Servitude
Pendant of Khaeleth

Fitzroy 160 pts
Sorceress
Level 2
Darkstar Cloak

Death Belle 160 pts
Sorceress
Level 2
Dispel Scroll

10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen 115 pts Musician Mus; Shield

10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen 115 pts Musician Mus; Shield

5 Dark Riders 117 pts (Musician Mus; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred

5 Dark Riders 117 pts (Musician Mus; Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Light Armour; Eternal Hatred

5 Harpies 55 pts
5 Harpies 55 pts

5 Cold One Knights 184 pts Musician Mus; Standard Bearer
Banner of Murder

5 Cold One Knights 143 pts Musician Mus; Standard Bearer

6 Shades 114 pts Great Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour

Reaper Bolt Thrower 100 pts
Reaper Bolt Thrower 100 pts

Hydra 175 pts

total = 1994

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 am

did you make your list with army builder?

why LA on the shades? no point imo.

5 COK with musican = 142, not sure how you got 143 incl standard.

Also if his warmachines are causing you a headache try this guy out:

Master - Dark steed, Heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, Pendant of Kaleth, Battle standard, sword of might.

18" charge, 1+AS against shooting, 2+ in combat, 3 str5 attacks + pendant and CR1.

his AS and pendant make him almost immune to shooting, he can be on warmachines in a turn, 3 str5 attacks usually mince warmachine crews. And even if you don't kill any the combat will still be a draw as you have a standard.

All comming in at 177pts makes this guy cheap and effective. Hell I've charged him solo into a unit of Grail Knights before and he just spent the game cutting them all down.

Plus if he does loose combat ld9 with re-rolls to breaktests means he rarely breaks.

Borog · Post by **Borog** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:40 am

Yes, try out the bsb as Bies described, he is gold against enemy warmachines, and incredibly versatile.

Try to use the harpies to screen the dark riders, or possibly one unit of harpies to screen the other one. When he only has one target, he can't shoot them both down.

You must have really bad luck when shot against, I've sent harpies straight towards handgunners, and then taken a stand and shoot, and still they didn't run away

Valkyre · Post by **Valkyre** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:42 pm

to give it a whole different approach, use a lvl 4 with deathmask and shadow lore, with an assassin with cloak.

possibly supported by another lvl 2.

shadow is great vs Empire, warmachines have ini 0 (pit of shades), movement is key to take out shooters fast and a terror causing SS that flies behind the Move or fire shooters is plain nasty.

creeping death kills the knights, and the crown will even work after a steed of shadows.

sure, ye put yer SS at risk, but no risk, no reward (unless ye bring nurgle demons)