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Dark Pegasus Supreme Sorceress 
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Corsair

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:27 am
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How have people been doing with her? Has true LoS made her too easy to kill?


Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:30 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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I was running one this evening against woodies with 3 Glade guard units. Had her equipped with pendant for ward save. I think she's somewhat reasonably protected if you can keep her in heavy cover against small strength missiles. High STR shots are stopped by the ward. I also had an agressive approach with my harpies and corsairs, so glade guards had higher priority targets.

I wouldnt rule her out as viable choice, but need to play some more.


Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:48 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Played Morathi on her peg today. Put her in a 30 man RXB unit and gave her the sacrificial dagger and Black Dragon Egg.

She was a wonder, knowing and actually casting all 6 spells with ease. With +5 on her casting roll spell 1-4 can easily be cast on 1 die (sacrifice if you roll a 1 or 2) and soulstealer and black horror on 2 dice.

Then when his depleted unit came into view she ate the Egg and charged out, 6 LD test or suffer WS 1 together with a toughness of six and a 4+ wardsave keep her alive easy as she breaths hard on the unit and dishes out her own (and sulaphets) 6 attacks.

Oh, and her MR2 and LD 10 help out the unit she is in also!


Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:37 pm
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Corsair

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Note: Do not have rulebook, family issues have kept me out of the loop of every warhammer system I play, but plan on getting it tomorrow.

She can join units? And if so, I assume still be shot at anyway or just not get look out sir?

I've seen the level four build with DP, FF, BDE/life taker and PoK which looks really nice until low strength shooting gets to her. I guess cover and long range will make most things hit on 5s and 6s, but still 4s to wound and 50/50 shot of saving bow fire seems risky. Guess it really comes down to the local area and amount of LoS blocking terrain.


Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:31 am
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Since when can a character with the "Fly" rule join a unit?! I think you accidentally cheated your opponent big time!

Someone make me smart.


Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:38 am
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also the black dragon egg can only be given to a model on foot

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Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:40 am
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mmckeddie wrote:
also the black dragon egg can only be given to a model on foot

Where is the rule for this


Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:41 am
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phierlihy wrote:
Since when can a character with the "Fly" rule join a unit?! I think you accidentally cheated your opponent big time!

Someone make me smart.

It was mentioned in another thread, which I can't recall at this moment, how there's no restrictions against joining a unit with the Dark Pegasus, due to the unit type, where, say, a Dragon or such would be prevented.

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Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:10 am
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nevermind, the black dragon egg being on foot only is an army builder error

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Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:17 am
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mmckeddie wrote:
nevermind, the black dragon egg being on foot only is an army builder error

Thank god that would throw out a lot of my plans :P (BDE + Chariot, BDE + Peg, BDE)


Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:52 am
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Corsair
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A DP is not a monster but a monstrous beast.
Its stats are "merged" with the rider, so one cannot be slain independantly of the other one (and together, they recover wounds with Soulstealer at will).

Flying characters may now join units.
Monster-riding & chariot-riding characters cannot.
Look out, sir works only for models riding the same category of mounts, i.e. infantry vs infantry, monstrous cavalry vs M.cav and so on. Morathi had no "look out, Ma'am" available.
However, in that case, shooting is distributed by the owner of the unit, so Mortahi probably allocates the first "x" arrows to the "x" remaining models in her unit before taking the "x+1" for herself. The next series till "2x+1" in the same way.


That tactics seems very profitable. After eating for breakfast a Dragon Egg, she's still incredibly beautiful but don't dare to kiss her.
I updated my thread D.R.A.I.C.H. Dark Elves units under 8th edition.


Post scriptum:
Lord Damian Valar - Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: . wrote:
Thank you Calisson for the honor of putting my tactic in the D.R.A.I.C.H.

I guess I should be more active. Just noted I been on these boards for 7 years and only posted 65 times.

If you use Morathi in a unit, do remember that her Enchanting Beauty works on our own side as well.

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Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:52 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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That just seemed so wrong that I had to look it up. But I can no longer find any rule preventing flying characters from joining units. That's huge! I bow to Calisson's knkowledge! :D :D :D


Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:49 pm
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Cold One Knight
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A dark pegasus rider can join a unit, there's just not too much to be gained from spending 50 points to make your Lvl.4 in a unit Lose Look Out Sir completely.

A supreme sorceress gains no additional toughness or wounds from being on a Dark Pegasus at all. It's misleading to say the stats are "merged." Merged implies that her stats are altered. They aren't.

On a mount she can be sniped by Cannons, Bolt Throwers, Stone Throwers, Breath Weapons, and any other template weapon (such as Lizardmen Salamanders, or Skaven Warpfire throwers.)

The above-mentioned pegasus, dragon egg, sac. dagger build is at least 365 points. 4 Dwarf cannons is 360 points and would wipe her off the map extremely quickly. D3-D6 wound weapons can kill her extremely fast if PoK ever fails.


Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:56 pm
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Cold One Knight
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The example is not A lvl 4 Sorceress, but Morathi, which cannot be taken without her Pegasus. The tactic I mentioned is that Morathi with the sacrificial dagger can easily dish out 6 spells in the magic phase which is quite impressive.

In 7th this could not be done because she could not be put in a unit and thus had no use for the dagger. Also het LD 10 and MR2 help the unit alot and on top of this she has some good saves and combat potential.

Quote:
On a mount she can be sniped by Cannons, Bolt Throwers, Stone Throwers, Breath Weapons, and any other template weapon (such as Lizardmen Salamanders, or Skaven Warpfire throwers.)


To get back to a normal pegasus character why yes they can be sniped when in a unit. But hey, they can be sniped outside of a unit too. Hiding is not as easy as it was. When you do use a pegasus character why not start them inside a unit, not all armies have cannons and they will be save from most normal shooting in the game, as well as many spells. March your unit forward on turn one and then fly your pegasus master or sorc out in turn two and charge those warmachines.


Quote:
The above-mentioned pegasus, dragon egg, sac. dagger build is at least 365 points. 4 Dwarf cannons is 360 points and would wipe her off the map extremely quickly. D3-D6 wound weapons can kill her extremely fast if PoK ever fails.


Those same cannons will kill of a 650 point dragonlord as well. But again, not all my opponents are Dwarves. And I do agree with you that I do not see myself taking a pegasus master/sorc against Empire or Dwarf (perhaps Skaven), but against other armies, like High Elves, why not? They have almost no snipe abilities.


Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:20 pm
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Cold One Knight
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against our cannon fielding foes, would you not take the pegasus? it would be handy to get her over to their line to pit of shades their guns, and with the pendant she'd ignore 5/6 cannon shots that actually hit her, no?

as an aside, few dwarf cannon are ever going to be taken (especially not in large quantities) without a rune of forging (or engineer), each cannon would be at the least 120 and each cannon after the first, would be more expensive. (due to the rune rules) 4 cannons with RoF that comply with the rules ends up roughly 500 points.

anyone with multiple cannons would probably want similar protection, the misfire chart became more deadly for them.


Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:18 am
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Cold One Knight
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Darktan wrote:
against our cannon fielding foes, would you not take the pegasus? it would be handy to get her over to their line to pit of shades their guns, and with the pendant she'd ignore 5/6 cannon shots that actually hit her, no?



I certainly wouldn't take a pegasus against any list with war machines. 1 out of 6 times she is shot, she falls over dead and you lose the game. Now a gunline can dish out a massive amount of shots. Even basic archers would kill her.

A dispel scroll could stop pit of shades and she just falls over dead with her massive points cost.

On the other hand, If she's in 20 or 30 crossbowmen, it'd take 6 times as much shooting to kill her.

No smart enemy will stack all his artillery in one pie template against your list.

And if they did, an infantry sorceress in a large unit of troopers could march forward and Pit of Shades them just as well, without the risk of her dying. Any guns which could hurt a unit of 20-30 xbows would utterly murder the stupid pegasus build.


Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:07 am
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Rending Star
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Calisson wrote:
A DP is not a monster but a monstrous beast.
Its stats are "merged" with the rider, so one cannot be slain independantly of the other one (and together, they recover wounds with Soulstealer at will).


Oh, havn't realized this yet (havn't read the rules about Monstrous Cavalry that closely, since I do not really have those... except for DP mounted chars)... the Dark Pegasus actually raises the Wound characteristic of a Hero rider to 3 then. Nice for those Sorceresses! :D

Of course, you don't get both, anymore, character and mount Wounds, but just one set of Wounds. But OTOH your full saves now count for the whole model, so no longer losing your flying steed easily.

Bye
Thanee


Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:02 am
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i put my sorceress back with my warrior after having her pin-cushioned by 2 units of 50 night goblins with bows yesterday. i forgot about the new shooting rules and flew her behind them. 27 unsaved wounds later (yes i had pendant) i realised that id probably rather have her with a nice big unit instead. Quite disappointing. need to get pretty close for those death-sniping spells. maybe a lvl 2 with some DRs will do that job while the lvl 4 stands back and causes death from afar with fire or something...

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Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:02 pm
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Corsair
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Both Nite gobbies units passed their Ld test to swift-reform (the only way to face backwards) AND shoot? Impressive!
Or was it their animosity?

Normally you're quite safe behind shooters who are not skirmishing or fast cav, and who's Ld is low (although it could be BSB-rerolled).

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Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:36 pm
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they had a general and bsb handy ;)

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Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:02 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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I'm surprised no one mentioned that a Sorceress on DP gets T4 in addition to W3.

The Familiar can also be taken on any Sorceress on DP, giving you both reach an cover (hug a building?).


Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:58 am
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noxy wrote:
I'm surprised no one mentioned that a Sorceress on DP gets T4 in addition to W3.


Hmm... is that so? I have only seen that you use the higher Wound characteristic from the mount, not the higher Toughness.

But I fully admit, that I am not quite up to speed with those Monstrous Cavalry rules, yet. :)

Bye
Thanee


Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:56 am
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Cold One Knight
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noxy wrote:
I'm surprised no one mentioned that a Sorceress on DP gets T4 in addition to W3.

The Familiar can also be taken on any Sorceress on DP, giving you both reach an cover (hug a building?).


No one mentioned it because it's not true. A Sorceress on DP is only T3. The only thing that is changed is Movement and Wounds, and the Lvl.4 already has 3 wounds.

Cavalry
"The mount's Wounds and Toughness are never used." (Page 82)
Monstrous Cavalry
"All the cavalry rules apply to monstrous cavalry with one exception - monstrous cavalry always use the Highest wounds characteristic the model has, rather than automatically using the rider's" (Page 83)


Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:06 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Put her in a unit of 30 rhb Corsairs and watch the magic happen.


Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:22 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Timz wrote:
No one mentioned it because it's not true. A Sorceress on DP is only T3. The only thing that is changed is Movement and Wounds, and the Lvl.4 already has 3 wounds.

Cavalry
"The mount's Wounds and Toughness are never used." (Page 82)
Monstrous Cavalry
"All the cavalry rules apply to monstrous cavalry with one exception - monstrous cavalry always use the Highest wounds characteristic the model has, rather than automatically using the rider's" (Page 83)


Thanks for clearing it up, DP isn't that appealing to me unless it's taken with a familiar to hide her away - the sorceress is too easy to shoot down.


Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:37 pm
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