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Poll for 8th edition: Various Character Builds - Masters 

Favorite Master
Master of Chains 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Draich-Bearer 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Crimson Darkness 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Focused Harassment 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
The Great Equalizer 25%  25%  [ 9 ]
Bearer on the Wing 22%  22%  [ 8 ]
BSB of Doom 25%  25%  [ 9 ]
Machine Hunter 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Beast Slayer 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Flyswatter 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 36

Poll for 8th edition: Various Character Builds - Masters 
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Noble
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:34 pm
Posts: 424
As promised, here is the polling section for the main topic 8th edition: Various Character Builds. This is the first of several so I can start moving characters to a Confirmed Status and try to clean up the conglomeration of builds offered by the fine posters of druchii.net.

Pick your favorite build, and if you wish mention any of the others you like. If you have a new build, please post in the main topic.

Due to the large variety, once a build gets 5+ votes I will move it to "Confirmed" status on the main topic (link above in red). As an edit effective August 21, 2010, we have our first Confirmed, The Great Equalizer.

Many thanks once again.

I forgot, here's the list of them for convenience. (Thanks for the reminder Sulla) If you like the alternate build more, please click for the original since I will keep them both together when posting.

New builds will keep getting added. Sadly, it won't let me updated the polling for some reason, so if you like any not listed or want to vote for a second build please post and I'll keep track.

Master of Chains
Master - 128pts
Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Whip of Agony

A standard, solid character with a 2+ Armour Save against close combat attacks, and a 1+ against ranged attacks. Sadly, the new rule regarding magic weapons means that we cannot combine our “hand weapon” magic weapons with shields for the new parry bonus. With 3 Strength 5 Armour Piercing attacks, he has a good chance of ripping holes in the opponent, and then shrugging off retaliatory blows. (Warning: Science ahead!) Running the math, he deals 2.67 hits on average against units (3s to hit with hatred), and then should deal that in wounds since he should on average be wounding on 2s with a -3 to Armour Saves. Leadership 9 gives a nice general boost for our elves, and Initiative 7 means we should frequently get to strike first to deliver our damage early.

Alternate Build - 109 pts
Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Beastmaster’s Scourge
An alternative is to drop the magic weapon and give him the mundane Beastmaster’s Scourge. That would reduce his point cost to 109 points, which is a downright bargain for an elf. The saves would be unchanged, but the strength would drop to 4 for a -2 to armour saves once Armour Piercing is added. However, you would also have the options of hanging the shield on your back, and using hand weapon and scourge to use 4 attacks. (Warning: Science ahead!) That would then give you 3.53 hits, likely wounding on 3s, resulting in 2.33 wounds with the -2 save from the Armour Piercing rule. Although this build results in less kills on average, it is just as effective a defensive option for 19 points less. You would even have the option to make him hold the Ring of Hotek or a similar talisman or enchanted item to support your army instead of himself.

Draich-Bearer
Master - 120pts
Armour of Darkness, Soulrender

A simple build designed to deal the most damage he can. 3 attacks at Strength 6 Armour piercing resulting in a -4 to Armour Save will make most characters flinch, and make knights charge elsewhere. His 1+ armour save means he can hold his own as it takes a correspondingly tough model to cut him down. In a unit with the Banner of Hag Graef, he will usually kill the 2-3 models before they even think about swinging. (Warning: Science ahead!) Running the math, he deals 2.67 hits on average against units (3s to hit with hatred), and then should deal 2.225 wounds since he should on average be wounding on 2s with a -4 to Armour Saves. For Knights with a 2+ save he should deal 1.85 wounds, and Chaos or Empire take 1.469 casualties on average. For these I would recommend challenging to minimize the incoming blows before you eat the foolish challenger alive.

Alternate Build - 109pts
Armour of Darkness, Great Weapon

Almost identical in build, the only loss is the Armour Piercing rule and magical attacks versus ethereal. (Warning: Science ahead!) Running the math, he deals 2.67 hits on average against units (3s to hit with hatred), and then should deal 2.225 wounds since he should on average be wounding on 2s with a -3 to Armour Saves. For Knights with a 2+ save he should deal 1.469 casualties, and Chaos or Empire take 1.113 casualties on average. For these I would again recommend challenging.

Crimson Darkness by DarkAngel16
Master - 130pts
Armour of Darkness, Crimson Death

As pointed out by DarkAngel16, this is a staple build that combines the 1+ armour save with 3 strength 6 attacks at our initiative 7. Against standard troops, this guy should have no problem hacking and slashing away. As long as you take into account anything with strength 5 or higher, dying to attacks should be fairly rare.

Focused Harassment
Master - 136pts
Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lifetaker, Lance, Dark Steed

This build is a variation of the hunter builds favored by some. With Lifetaker you can take out most any mage who shows his face outside of a unit, and anything similar to a Skaven weapon team isn’t happy with this accuracy either. Furthermore, with a Lance and the Steed, you can be moving up a flank each turn shooting away until you can start a sequence of charges from one warmachine or 10-man archer unit through to the next. Speaking from experience, partnering with a Hydra works very well for this idea so you get the long range from the Master, medium range from the Hydra, and close combat from both for easy breaking or pinning of non-character units. Lastly, the 1+ save at range from the mundane equipment means that barring a bolt thrower or cannon you should make it to the opposing side without a scratch.

Alternate build - 116pts
Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Repeater Crossbow, Lance, Dark Steed

This cheaper variation drops the steadier punch of Lifetaker. The saving of 20 points results in less of a distance hunting capacity, but instead lets you focus on getting to the opponent’s side by turn 2 by moving 27"-36" without having to worry about shooting turn 1 since you cannot march and shoot. The armour save is unchanged, so you still ignore most arrows and Strength 4 magic missiles.

The Great Equalizer - Confirmed
Master - 133pts
Blood Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Black Dragon Egg, Halberd

Due to the new rules, we have a new possible bane of our existence, Steadfast! Any unit can become stubborn just by having more ranks than we do before they take their break test. This is a problem, since we don’t do well at attrition due to 5+ armour saves on just about all our troops. As such, we need to remove the ranks as soon as possible while removing attacks to keep ourselves alive. This model is a great bonus to any unit we are intending to use to munch our way through troops in one turn. (Warning: Lots of Science ahead!) This build is intended to be in a unit with the Banner of Murder for the Armour Piercing bonus, since it will stack on the halberd. Due to initiative 7, the master should put out: 2.67 hits due to hatred, resulting in an average of 2.23 wounds against a toughness 3 target. At a -3 save (strength 5 plus Armour Piercing), that should kill most infantry outright. Then, you get 2D6 hits from the Noxious Breath at strength 4, so an average of 7 hits. That means an average of 4.67 wounds. Barring Full Plate, that is another batch of dead infantry (about 3.88 dead). So our one model just put out 6.1 wounds on average, regardless of who charged. That’s over a rank dead before our initiative 5-6 troops get to swing! Assuming we’re in a unit of Warriors, we should have a clear advantage at this point. Now we get to drop 15 attacks (3 ranks, 5 wide with champ, 1 spot taken by character), that works out to 11.25 hits and 5.63 wounds on toughness 3 enemies. That is another 4.69-3.91 wounds on average (depending on parry bonus or not), so we’ve dropped 2 ranks worth of troops in one round of combat. That should let us be ahead on combat resolution and hopefully break the steadfast rule for the opponent to let us plow right on through.

Alternate Build by Lord Tsunami
Master - 167pts
Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Beastmaster’s Scourge, Blood Armour, Black Dragon Egg, Luckstone
Lord Tsunami wrote:
BMS is almost always better than halberd (as i posted above). It might be paranoid to use so much armour in combination with Blood Armour, but its only a couple of points. He will only have to cause 2 wounds to get down to a 1+ AS, and if that lucky goblin manages to poke him in the eye, the Luckstone allows him to re roll that "1", and is essentially an extra wound.

I put him in a large unit of warriors and when the enemy charges (or i charge for that matter) I use the Egg to deplete their ranks a bit, and get a quick boost of active combat resolution. The Warbanner Ii give the warriors and the extra point from BSB means that I should be able to win at least the first round of combat with a few points, and since I play a deep formation I will most likely have most ranks, making enemies lose steadfast and run.


Bearer on the Wing by The Warchief and druchii.net
Master - 190-206pts
Heavy Armour, Shield, Cloak of Hag Graef, Ring of Hotek, Lance, Dark Pegasus, optional Repeater Handbows
The Warchief wrote:
1+ armour save plus shooting and spells at half strength in order to get the Hotek bubble where you want it. Extra wound now and can't target the Pegasus seperately.

A popular build during 7th, and thanks to The Warchief for reminding me I didn't have this one up for 8th yet.

BSB of Doom by The Internet and druchii.net
Master - 177-231pts
Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Sword of Might, Pendant of Khaeleth
-optional equipment: Dark Steed (177), Dark Pegasus (215), Pair of Repeater Handbows
The Internet wrote:
Very deadly against anything that doesn't have ranks. Hold up/break lone monsters or ogre sized infantry and the like. It broke a unit of 4 Minotaurs + Gorebull on the charge the other day.

A popular build during 7th and thanks to The Internet for reminding me I didn't have this one up for 8th yet. With a 2+, followed by PoK, it is perfect for holding up those critters too large to deal with normally. The BSB reroll should keep him immune to fear and terror due to a 2.7% chance of failing leadership with the reroll.

Machine Hunter by Meteor
Master - 190
Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Whip of Agony, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness, Seed of Renewal, Dark Pegasus
Meteor wrote:
So we have a 1+ AS, 2+ward against fire, 6+regen and five str5 AP hits (if you drink the potion) plus two str5 attacks from DP on the charge plus immune to psych. OM NOM NOM


Beast Slayer by LanceSaba
Master - 142pts
Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth, Dark Steed
LanceSaba wrote:
He is cheap and should do some good generally ya it is a waste of his initiative but he should knock some beast down (like dragons =D). you could give him some armor but i think it is wasted on monster hunting as they will usually negate it but for 8 points you can give him a 2 plus (cloak included) if you want to be protected from shooting.


Flyswatter by LanceSaba
Master - 140pts
Blood Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Beastmaster's Scourge, 2x Null Talisman, Potion of Foolhardiness

LanceSaba wrote:
He is a bit pricey but nice at four str 4 ap 2 attacks a turn he should mow down light infantry. Like I said he is more for support on an extreme flank for a possible unit of warrior or crossbowmen but at that point I would drop the potion and magic res for the guiding eye and seed's of rebirth then throw a crossbow on him. the sea dragon cloak isn't really necessary but it is nice to have if you have the extra points.


Unholy Knight by Camaris
Master - 180pts
Battle Standard, Armour of Destiny, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Cold One, Halberd
Camaris wrote:
If you need a BSB to lead your central battleline and you need the pendant elsewhere, this is your guy. With a 1+ armour save and a 4+ ward save, he can survive the massive amounts of 8th ed supporting attacks and duel a lot of the characters in the game. If you face a lot of ethereals in your gaming group, you may want to switch his magic items with talisman of preservation and one of the 5pt magic items.

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My motto: Whether I win, lose, or draw the game; I win as long as my opponent has pulled their hair out by the end of the game. :twisted:

Honoring Khaine since March 2003.


Last edited by Ebonyphoenix on Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:55 pm
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The Guiding Eye
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Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
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Erm, sorry to say but Tsunami's alternate version of The Great Equalisier doesn't quite work:

1. a master can't take than amount of magic items
2. if used as a dreadlord (to use all those item combos) then he cannot be a BSB

and nor does lancesabre's flyswatter:

1. Masters magic item limited can't fit WoA AND 2 Null talismans, let alone the potion/seed of rebirth.

Maybe I've missed something here with my interpretation but those sadly don't seem legal as Master combos.

I've voted the ubiquitous BSB of Doom - its tried, tested and still overly good. However for a more informal game - I enjoy the concept of the Bearer on The Wing. Master of Chains wins my >1500pt game Master choice, whilst Machine Hunter for the larger games.

Overall? I chose the BSB of Doom as its the most effective overall in my eyes...

- Beanz

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Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:36 pm
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Noble
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What you are missing is that he has a Beastmaster's Scourge, not the Whip of Agony. He has the mundane handweapon version. That leaves the Black Dragon Egg and the Luckstone as his only magic equipment.

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"Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons, For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketchup"

My motto: Whether I win, lose, or draw the game; I win as long as my opponent has pulled their hair out by the end of the game. :twisted:

Honoring Khaine since March 2003.


Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:56 am
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Dark Illusionist
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I'm quite fond of the bearer of the wing. Although I'd skip the ring of hotek for the pendant and then send him off killing war machines for the first half of the game, and the second half he'll be hammering into the rear of enemy units I've engaged with my spearmen/guard etc. and end the combat quickly. I nearly gave in to the tempation of making him a highborn, but in the end decided against it because the highborn wouldn't get the extra wound from the peggy, and is hugely more expensive (and then there's the magic item allowance that I'd be tempted to max out).

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Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:01 am
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I have had to recently construct a "Cheap" Bearer on the Wing- swapping out the Dark Peg for a Dark Steed. I've found the durability went up since you can stick him close enough or into a unit of riders to give him a bit of nice back up.

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:02 am
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Noble
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This is a joke! Where is Chuck Norris??? BSB of Doom is desent but:

POK+Dragonhelm+potion of foolhardiness+pegasus

or

POK+Soulrender+pegasus

are just much better builds!


Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:10 am
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Shade

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:04 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Maryland, USA
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Auere wrote:
This is a joke! Where is Chuck Norris??? BSB of Doom is desent but:

POK+Dragonhelm+potion of foolhardiness+pegasus

or

POK+Soulrender+pegasus

are just much better builds!


I was gonna say, where's Chuck Norris!?! :shock:

That's my vote.


Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:27 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Are there any builds that focus on someone joining a unit of COK's. I tried a build the other weekend with a unit of 9 Knights. They ended up killing a Vargoul to be annhilated by a unit of ghouls as well as a unit of skellies. By the end of the game the Dreadlord was the only thing left. Wasn't very effective in the end.

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:13 pm
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Noble
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JL177 wrote:
Auere wrote:
This is a joke! Where is Chuck Norris??? BSB of Doom is desent but:

POK+Dragonhelm+potion of foolhardiness+pegasus

or

POK+Soulrender+pegasus

are just much better builds!





I was gonna say, where's Chuck Norris!?!

That's my vote.


So, should I label the POK+Dragonhelm+Potion+Pegasus as Mr. T and the POK+Soulrender+Pegasus as Chuck Norris? :P Or should it be the other way around?

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"Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons, For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketchup"

My motto: Whether I win, lose, or draw the game; I win as long as my opponent has pulled their hair out by the end of the game. :twisted:

Honoring Khaine since March 2003.


Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:15 pm
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Assassin
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for me Chuck Noris and HOLD-ANY-REGIMENT heroes are against the spirit, I would rather like arguing and "cheating" (on measurement/declarations) opponent and any other abuses than that radicalus idea that one man can hold 100strong unit.

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:44 pm
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Noble
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Quote:
for me Chuck Noris and HOLD-ANY-REGIMENT heroes are against the spirit, I would rather like arguing and "cheating" (on measurement/declarations) opponent and any other abuses than that radicalus idea that one man can hold 100strong unit.


I dont understand this argument...?

You are comparing cheating and bad sportsmanship to choosing the most powerful configurations within the list? Everything in warhammer is unrealistic. Why cant one hero not hold up 100s of men, if an anvil rune can make dwarves move at double speed?
Apart from that, Chuck Norris may be one of the best and most unkillable "hold-any-regiment" builds, but most other races can also manage desent stubborn lords with rerollable armour saves and ward saves. You cant really argue against people doing the best they can with the tools they have been given!

When that is said, I do agree that Chuck Norris (as the name implies) is easily one of the most "broken" character configurations in the warhammer world, and for friendly play I would advice against continoually playing him...

Quote:
So, should I label the POK+Dragonhelm+Potion+Pegasus as Mr. T and the POK+Soulrender+Pegasus as Chuck Norris? Razz Or should it be the other way around?


They are both Chuck Norris. The dragohelm build could be Chuck cooking (even chuck needs a 2+ ward save against fire when he is cooking), while the soulrender one could be him shaving...

No really: Both would use the same model - a master with great weapon and banner on a pegasus. Both are Chuck Norris. The dragonhelm build is slightly more defensive and great against metal magic sniping, while the soulrender build is better on the offence with armour piercing and magical attacks against etherals and forest spirits alike. Currently I think the two builds are even, and both were much Chuck Norris.

When Chuck charges something he gets +1CR from charging, +1CR from BSB and any wounds he can manage with he's hatred S6 attacks and the pegasuss attacks. He often takes nearly no damage in return, which means that he is winning combat against non-ranked units by three or more. Chuck is ideal against big nasties, but can also be used to great effect against monstreous infantry and knights. He can hunt warmachines, etherals, skirmishers - anything that isnt big blocks really, and he can even be used like the stubborn dreadlord to hold up big blocks should neccessety arise (although it is a waste of his talent). He is by far the most versatile, pointeffective build in the dark elf army book. The only things he has to fear is death magic and waywatchers really...

My army can be divided in two equally strong fractions: Chuck Norris and "the rest". Usually Chuck Norris scores more victory points though... :D

Chuck Cooking
Master (BSB) 217 points
Great weapon, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, dark pegasus, Dragonhelm, Pendant of Khaeleth, Potion of Foolhardiness

Chuck Shaving
Master (BSB) 215 points
Heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, dark pegasus, Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth


Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:11 am
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Beastmaster
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An alternate build for Machine Hunter is to use Dawnstone instead of [Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness & Seed of Renewal].

This yields 2+ rerollable armour save rather then 1+ AS & 6+ Reg (or 2+ ward vs fire).

A bit less punch on the charge but more staying power (often anyways). Personally, Im not too comfortable with Seed of Renewal. The Potion of Foolhardines also sits better with a cold one knight champion for me.

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Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:06 pm
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