2999 pts COK Deathstar ;-)

Get critiqued on your latest army here...

Moderator: The Dread Knights

Post Reply
User avatar
Thanee
Rending Star
Rending Star
Posts: 5030
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Location: Germany

2999 pts COK Deathstar ;-)

Post by Thanee »

280 Dreadlord on Cold One with Whip of Agony, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Pendant of Khaeleth, Crown of Command
360 Supreme Sorceress Level 4 (Lore of Shadow) with Lifetaker, Sacrificial Dagger, Talisman of Preservation
150 Sorceress Level 2 (Lore of Death) with Tome of Furion
225 Death Hag BSB with Cauldron of Blood
304 40 Warriors with Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline
240 20 Repeater Crossbowmen with Shields, Guardmaster, Musician, Standard Bearer
240 20 Repeater Crossbowmen with Shields, Guardmaster, Musician, Standard Bearer
55 5 Harpies
55 5 Harpies
55 5 Harpies
55 5 Harpies
630 20 Cold One Knights with Dread Knight, Musician, Standard Bearer, Spellshield, Luckstone, Banner of Murder
175 War Hydra
175 War Hydra

Not sure, whether this is a good idea. The original draft had a 40 strong unit of COK (deployed as a Horde). :lol:

In most cases, the cauldron will protect the COK unit with 5+ Ward save at first.

Bye
Thanee
Last edited by Thanee on Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Demetrius
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1070
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:36 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Demetrius »

IMO the SOHG is better than the BOM in this case, it gives them the edge on High Elves, and gives them rerolls to hit in every round of combat. Also lets the Cold Ones themselves strike before other models. Also, a BSB with Hydra Banner in the unit wouldnt go astray.

Apart from that, I wouldnt want to come up against the list. :D
Xuza
Corsair
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:39 am

Post by Xuza »

Hello Thanee. That's a lot of CoKs :).

Don't know if it's my math that's screwed up but shouldn't a Rxb group of 20 cost 240 and not 230 with fc?
The idea of giving SoHG instead of BoM to the CoK sounds quite good. Maybe drop something to be able to give the warriors BoM, since they "should" in the long run benefit more from that then the extra ld.
But really cool list, it shows guts.

Proably not the list I would use against a gunline thou ^^
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Post by Dalamar »

You need a Ring of Darkness somewhere in that big unit to protect yourself from massed S4 AP shooting.

Template weapons will make you cry, even with ward.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8820
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Post by Calisson »

One more argument for a CO mounted BSB:
Front rank = FC + Lord + BSB
No room for them... the two sorceresses go in 2nd rank.
There, they are safe from the first round of melee (until someone dies in the first rank).
From there, they can contribute with their 1 attack.
From there, they can cast spells (just beware of LOS spells, as they LOS is slightly obscured - otherwise spell casting unaffected).
From there, they can wear useful objects to benefit the whole unit.

OK, from there, they can miscast very badly.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
User avatar
Thanee
Rending Star
Rending Star
Posts: 5030
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Location: Germany

Post by Thanee »

Xuza wrote:Don't know if it's my math that's screwed up but shouldn't a Rxb group of 20 cost 240 and not 230 with fc?


No, you are right. My bad! Changed. :)

Dalamar wrote:Template weapons will make you cry, even with ward.


Yes, I know. That's what all the Harpies are for, to keep it to a minimum. ;)

Calisson wrote:One more argument for a CO mounted BSB:
Front rank = FC + Lord + BSB
No room for them... the two sorceresses go in 2nd rank.


Uhm... the Sorceresses are on foot. They are not supposed to be in there as well. :D

Bye
Thanee
User avatar
Thanee
Rending Star
Rending Star
Posts: 5030
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Location: Germany

Post by Thanee »

So, I let this army out to play today against a horde of greenskins.

Small change, because I didn't get my 2nd Hydra ready (she was still in the spearhead box from... uhm... :lol: ):
-1x War Hydra -1x Standard of Discipline -2x Guardmaster
+2x Cold One Chariot

My opponent had six characters (Black Orc Lord on Boar, Black Orc Lord on Wyvern, some big Orc on Boar BSB, Goblin on Squig, 2x Goblin Shaman Lvl 2 on Wolf), eight warmachines (2x Doom Diver, 2x Stone Thrower, 4x Bolt Thrower), three Wolf Chariots, 2x big unit of Night Goblins with 2 Fanatics each, 3x 25 or so Orcs.

At first the game didn't go that well, I think I put my Cold One unit too far on the flank, so he could advance towards my two RXB units in the center with four blocks (2x Orcs flanked by 2x Goblins).

Also, the Harpies did nothing, since he got first turn and had his warmachines at the far end of the battlefield with the Chariots (and Wyvern) covering them pretty well. He also attacked them with magic from turn 1 on. I only got one charge in with them, that killed 2 crew of one Stone Thrower before the countercharging Chariot killed them. That Stone Thrower lost one model due to a misfire later, though, so they managed to get that one removed, at least. :)

In the center, one Goblin block charged a Cold One Chariot, which turned out to be rather stubborn (not by the rule) and held out like EIGHT turns in combat without breaking. That was kinda absurd, really. :D

The other Goblin block feared my Warriors a bit too much and didn't get close.

The two Orc blocks were right in the face of my two RXB units (about 10" or so away), when I managed to get the -d3 Toughness (-2 in this case) spell through on one of them and shot them to pieces in a single round of shooting (only the General survived the slaughter), while the other unit got -3 to WS/BS/I/M. They all charged in still (thanks to the big Waaaagh!), but after two or three rounds of combat, my RXBs annihilated them in close combat (with a little help form Toughness reducing magic; only -1 this time, but still useful). One block was down to six models by then, however, and was (in the end) send fleeing (but not destroyed) by the Orc General, who was still around with one Wound (since that darn Death spell with 2d6-Strength hits, that wound on 4+ with no armour save, only managed to do a single Wound on three successful castings!). The big RXB block, that remained after the combat, was double Chariot charged and destroyed in the last round.

My great Supreme Sorceress managed to take two wounds from three Stone Thrower hits (making that 2+ Watch Out! OR 4+ Ward is just too difficult, sometimes), and when the Warriors and the other Goblins finally clashed, she was skewered to death by Goblin swords. Still, her magic really turned the tide in the center, letting my RXB units prevail over the two big Orc blocks with nasty characters in them. She had also got the Feedback scroll and a Miscast against her, but those didn't do much (the Miscast wounded my other Sorceress, but she was otherwise pretty safe for the whole game, resting out of sight behind the hill, where the big battle with the RXB vs. Orcs was fought; the Stone Throwers had better targets than trying to get her with indirect fire).

The Warriors (the unit was about down to half-size by the time they saw combat, thanks to some Stone Thrower hits) held out bravely against the Goblins, but eventually lost due to their sheer numbers and the nets reducing my ability to deal wounds to them. But they still remained on the field at the end of the game.

The Hydra fought against the Wyvern and managed to make one out of five Regenerate saves, barely surviving the combat (Wyvern was also down to one Wound, though) and fleeing (luckily one inch more than the Wyvern). On their second clash, the Handlers killed the Wyvern, and the Orc fled to be trampled down by them afterwards. The Hydra survived the remaining turns despite two or so Bolt Thrower hits.

The big unit of Cold One Knights lost a few models from warmachine fire, but not too many (only the Doom Divers were a real threat), and was still around at the end of the game, saving a lot of victory points (though by then there were only the command group left). They killed the other Orc block (who charged them into the flank, because I forgot that you cannot march after a Swift Reform, though I really didn't fear them much with my Ld 10 Stubborn General in the unit; after the first round of combat, they reformed and then made short work of the Orcs) and a few warmachines.

Bye
Thanee
User avatar
xFallenx
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:04 am
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Contact:

Post by xFallenx »

Very cool report. I like the idea of 20 CoK's. Did you end up winning?
Oct 2013-Current: 3-2-0
User avatar
Thanee
Rending Star
Rending Star
Posts: 5030
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Location: Germany

Post by Thanee »

We didn't really count. It certainly looked like it, though. :)

He lost four characters (Wyvern Lord, Orc BSB, Squig Goblin, Goblin Shaman), three units of about 25 Orcs each, two Bolt Throwers, two Stone Throwers, and a Doom Diver.

I lost about 900 pts of troops (Supreme Sorceress, 1x 20 RXB, 4x 5 Harpies, 1x COC).

Bye
Thanee
User avatar
Ichiyo1821
Highborn
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:03 am

Post by Ichiyo1821 »

I run a very similar list with 12 strong COK which cost a lot already but have killed a lot more in return. 20 is too much imo with the amount of template warmachines and spells running about. I'd reduce that to 15 and get something else for the remaining 100+ points to be more versatile. A horde unit akin to Skaven slaves would still probably hold that COK unit for a turn to slam you with the Bell and HPA on the side for example.
8th Edition

W/D/L
86/1/5

New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0

9th Age
W/D/L

Vae Victis
Character kill count -182

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Armies
Dark Elves
Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig
User avatar
Thanee
Rending Star
Rending Star
Posts: 5030
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Location: Germany

Post by Thanee »

Yep, two units of 10 COK or something like that is probably more effective overall, but I wanted to try an irrationally large unit of COK, specifically. :)

On the upside, the unit must be destroyed completely now to give any VP. Which isn't exactly easy, even with template weapons.

Bye
Thanee
User avatar
N'kari
Shade
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:27 am

Post by N'kari »

Thanee,

Template weapons maybe, but some spells will rip to that unit like no tomorrow. Plague from the skavens, Dwellers not that effective but can still bring the pain. First metal spell will rip through it also.

I think that with Dark Elves, it all comes back to small units, supporting each other, 2 times 10 seems a daunting prospective if both get supported by warhydra and/or chariots.
I never think about removing ranks with units, that is bad math, you need to think how much casualties you will make and how long you think you will need to break through, for that 2 times 10 will achieve lot more when combocharing than one of 20
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!
"belgian politician"

3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win.
User avatar
Thanee
Rending Star
Rending Star
Posts: 5030
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:10 am
Location: Germany

Post by Thanee »

Yeah, there is always something that is scary against certain armies. :D

Take an MSU army and you are in trouble, when you face an army with access to a lot of "pulse" spells (i.e. every unit in XX inch takes XX hits), like Daemons (Horrors) or Lizardmen (Machine of the Gods), I think Skaven has one rather nasty spell like this, too.

But, as I said above, I definitely think splitting the COK into 2 units would be more effective overall.

Bye
Thanee
Olderplayer
Executioner
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:06 am

Post by Olderplayer »

I ran a 2500 points build of 2 hydras, 10 COKs with BOHG and a dreadknight, a dreadlord with re-rollable armour saves and crown of command, and a BSB on a dark steed nearby or in the unit and one large unit of RXBs, 6 DRs with RXBs, one large unit of RHB corsairs, Lvl 4 on dark steed with Pok, FF and Lore of Metal and Lvl 2 with Dark Lore Furion and Lifetaker, and Death Hag with Cauldron. The COK unit ran over everything it faced but was slowly eroded away against a tough tar pit with some armour piercing. However, the army won nearly everything because the dreadlord and BSB ensured no stupidity issues and stubborn and almost unkillable dreadlord made the unit almost unbreakable with the BSB nearby (unit could be buffed by the Cauldron and Lore of Metal Augments it faced but was slowly eroded away).

The only problem I ran into was a dwarf army with three large ranked blocks of troops (making them steadfast and able to protect the war machines), a cannon with flaming, a second cannon, and a grudge thrower. All three war machines had engineers allowing re-rolls of artillery dice. The flaming cannon hit hydra one and wounded it shutting down regen and then the second cannon killed it on top of turn one, then the second hydra was killed the same way on the top of turn two. Meanwhile, the grudge thrower managed direct hits on the first two turns decimating my corsairs and dark riders in turn and finally killed my level 2 (essential for the dark magic lore spells were very effective). Those re-rollable artillery dice can make for a very nasty and frustrating battle.
User avatar
Meteor
Executioner
Posts: 1956
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Location: Hell

Post by Meteor »

It's why I just take one Hydra. If they can deal with one relatively easy, a second one won't make things better for you. Shadow basically solves all ;)
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued
Post Reply