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Do Cold one Knights also win you nearly all your games? 
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Noble
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I am kinda amused by the so-called nerf to heavy cavalry in 8th. My Cold one knights just seem to wreck havoc on every opponent they face!

I usually run 2x6 CoKs with only musician. Equals 340 points. My list also always contains a cauldron BSB.

There are just so many uses for these units. In my game against the dwarves one unit battered into the front of 25 Ironbreakers. 8 rounds of combat later, 3 CoKs and 13 Ironbreakers remained. By then my other unit of CoKs had killed his anvil and was now ready to hit the rear of the ironbreakers.

Against lizardmen they tore an ancient stegadon EotG apart in one round of combat. Afterwards they got charged by 15 temple guards, but held them up for 5 rounds of combat - beating them down to 4 before the last knight perished.

Against wood elves they made a havoc of killing dryads - something my other troops really dont do too well...


The thing is:

- 6 CoKs get 12 WS5 S6 attacks with hatred + cold ones when they attack, and in the following round of combat they still have the blessing and get 18 S4 attacks together with their mounts. Usually there just isnt too much left after that...

- BSB now allows rerolls on stupidity.

- Prolonged combat will see the enemy failing fear tests, hence taking more damage and doing less themselves.

- Cold one Knights are sturdy. From my experience they just wont go down that easy.

- They have superb leadership. Keep the BSB close and they are not going anywhere.

- Stone throwers dont negate armour any longer. Bolt throwers are less popular. Cannon is going for characters or monsters. Template weapons are generally looking for larger more juicy targets. Which units would shoot at my knights? Usually noone does... which they eventually regret ofcourse.

- CoKs are just so DAMN cheap for what they do!

(- the models are great even...)



When I grow up, I want to be the longest posting Cold one Knight on this forum. Just like Calisson is still a corsair :-)


Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:59 am
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Assassin

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I agree that CoK are very good in combination with the Cauldron. I played 3 games at Ard Boyz yesterday and my knights ripped through everything they touched. I ran them as a unit of 10 with Full Command and ASF banner. The champion had the charmed shield, luckstone, and the other trickster's shard. In game one they were able to charge a star dragon that had been pinned and killed it, they then overran into a large block of phoenix guard and broke them as well. Game 2 they massacred a marauder horde and beat off a warshrine and a unit of chaos warriors even when my unit got charged. Game 3 they flanked an enemy CoK unit and broke them. I was very pleased with the results and will probably keep running them with the combination I used.

8th edition has made them a very solid choice IMO


Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:37 pm
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Auere wrote:
I am kinda amused by the so-called nerf to heavy cavalry in 8th.


That's what people say, but I don't think that is right or even the intent of 8th edition.

I think that infantry has become much better, and cavalry has become a bit weaker, but there was a disparity between them. Now they are about even. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both can work. Which is good.

Bye
Thanee


Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:56 pm
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My cold one knights are also performing great, luckily I had already 12 of them painted :P . They will probably become almost mandatory in my lists unless I want to try something out..

The look on my opponents face when they killed 11 chaos warriors on the charge.. great.. just great!

-Farodin

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Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:46 pm
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Corsair
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Auere wrote:
When I grow up, I want to be the longest posting Cold one Knight on this forum. Just like Calisson is still a corsair :-)
That could be fun, to have the longest-posting corsair telling "young man" to the longest posting knight! :lol:
However, before it happened, I'm not sure you realize that while a young corsair (in my 75th-100th post), I was known not only for advocating corsairs & Lokhir, but moreover for being a corsair (with a real corsair signature, for example). Besides that, I had raised some attention with a thread which rised finally to a total of 46379 views, and I suspect that it helped the admins to get the indulgence of keeping my rank as corsair.
For you, the way to go could be to write a D.R.A.I.C.H. article about COK, to change your signature... and to wait for your 1000th post? :roll:


Back on topic,
my own COK (the old fasioned ones, riding "staring cow" cold ones) were rather ineffective for me back in the 7th edition, because they were a primary target for anything magic or shooting negating armour save (maybe they were seasick, too).
With the improvement of fear during prolonged melees and less armour-negating shooting, I may dust them off and try them again.
I doubt that they can become anything as scary as SSS corsairs, though! ;)

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Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:51 pm
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I've always loved cold one knights and though some DE players will argue until they are blue in the face, i will ALWAYS take some!

In 8th edition they are weaker, the new rank-stubborn business and with the enemy stepping up to attack back means that you can't rely on your 7 wide COK unit to slaughter the enemies front rank, get no attacks back, win combat despite SCR and then auto-break due to causing fear.

Despite this, they are fast, heavy hitting and heavily armoured enough to warrant the points cost. You can't rely on them alone but damn, watch them charge across the field and mash anything in their way.

In my opinion, COK's represent some of the best point to effective cavarly units in the game.

Regards

D


Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:18 pm
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Noble
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Calisson wrote:
I doubt that they can become anything as scary as SSS corsairs, though! ;)

Using both in recent games, I can say that they are quite awesome together. CoKs take care of those scary highT or good armor-saved enemies, while the Corsairs generally gib regular infantry. :D

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Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:20 pm
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Noble
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Quote:
Using both in recent games, I can say that they are quite awesome together. CoKs take care of those scary highT or good armor-saved enemies, while the Corsairs generally gib regular infantry.


That was also my experience. I have both now in most of my lists. 15-20 Corsairs +2x6 CoKs + mandatory cauldron.

Quote:
For you, the way to go could be to write a D.R.A.I.C.H. article about COK, to change your signature... and to wait for your 1000th post?


That can be done...! :)


Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:25 am
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doooooo it! If I had my way, it'd be executioners or magic :lol:

I don't quite rely on them in my games. I bring six along in a 3x2 in 3000pt games, and even keep it that at 4000pts. Don't ask why, maybe it's the points cost, maybe it's the lack of numbers of them, or the stupidity, but something makes me shy away from CoKs over more infantry.

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Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:04 am
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These guys were always my most effective unit, but since I've started running AHW/SSS corsairs (absolute gold when buffed with Okhams Mind Razor) they seem to have dropped to second place. I always like to keep a unit of 10 knights in my army though.

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Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:52 am
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I run 5 naked Knights, which is 135 points. That is nothing. When I charge them I give them +1 attack from COB and they will kill plenty, and even if they somehow lose or all die from return attacks, they always make their 135 points back. And its only one round of blessings from the COB.

Id like to run bigger units, but can never find the points.

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Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:51 pm
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One thing that seems potentially useful about COK is that the smaller the unit is, the more utility it potentially has for hunting through a backline. A unit of three depleted Cold Ones can still run over virtually any warmachine, but can also maneuver between enemy regiments easily or fit into base contact as part of a multiple combat alongside other charging Dark Elf units. This thread has definitely encouraged me to try a unit of 5, especially since I already have a Cauldron in my list.

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Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:18 pm
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Heh. In the last game I played I did quite the opposite (i.e. take a very large unit of COK), but in the end, Shadow Magic was more important to winning than them (they did draw a lot of fire, though, and since they were not destroyed completely they were thus worth 0 VP for my opponent).

Bye
Thanee


Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:09 pm
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One difficulty I'm having with Cold One Knights is that I find Cold One Chariots are fulfilling a very similar role. The Knights are better for receiving Cauldron buffs, and are also more consistent in their damage output (the same number of attacks ever round, instead of rolling for random impact hits.) However, the chariot's high Toughness is outstanding, it maneuvers easily and fits into base contact nicely when you're initiating a multiple charge, and is more than capable of running down or pursuing fleeing enemies so your more robust units can focus on other threats.

I don't see the role of Cold One Knights and Chariots as being entirely interchangeable, but I do think they're similar enough that they're competing for the same spot in my list.

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Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:06 am
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I have been using for 11 COK with my general in 8th edition and they have trampled and held up against everything it had to for the past 5 games. It is a huge point sink but it also denies your opponent of any real VP if used and protected properly. I deem it mandatory for every competitive DE army to altleast field a COB with it's unparalleled utility and presenting your opponent with multiple hard targets keep the COK unit safe. Bless them with 5+ ward save and even a gunline would have to choose between a COK unit, possible 2 Hydras and a crippling 20 man crossbow unit. The supposed nerf to fear is not to be underestimated as it has reduced the incoming wounds towards the COK no to mention that stupidity became more of a boon than a bane as it was in previous editions. Using them in smaller units takes a little more planning but would deliver good results still. I have been a fan of COK since the 6th edition as No DE unit has ever been as resilient, a factor to be considered to compliment the more fragile units of the DE.

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Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:12 am
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I'll admit that I haven't tried out the COK's in 8th ed. yet, and maybe they have become much better than they used to be. But in my case, I have to answer the original question of this thread with a resounding "NO".

In 6th ed. the COK consistently LOST me most of the games I used them in, which ultimately turned me off using them at all.

In 7th I didn't experience any success with them either, the few times I tried to include them.

And as for 8th ed., I don't really get to play very much for the moment, so I can't really judge their value in this edition yet. From my current point of view and experience with them I don't expect to waste points on them though. Though I'll grant that the models are very nice.


Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:49 am
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If it was Stupidity, that made them lose you games (which could easily happens), that is much better controlled now.

Ld 10 with Re-Roll is extremely easy to achieve.

Bye
Thanee


Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:55 pm
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They have failed me too many times to be fielded for tactical reasons. Perhaps I may try again with the changes to BsB, but the only reason I field them is that I like the paintjob.

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Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:13 pm
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Heh. My most epic fail with Cold One Knights was in 7th edition.

Big unit with Dreadlord failed Stupidity. Got charged by some infantry regiment. Despite being much stronger in melee (even without charging), they lost combat by 1. Despite BSB nearby they broke (2x double six) and were run down (with a triple one on fleeing distance, no less). Awesome! :D

Bye
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Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:36 pm
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I never field CoKs, so they never win me any games. My 30 strong horde of executioners on the other hand never fail to deliver the pain :)


Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:39 pm
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I have been using up to 3 units of Knights for several years now but they have rarely done much for me. Generally they just end up fleeing off the board. But I still love them anyway even when they fail 4 stupidity tests in a row. :)

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Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:03 am
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Yea the biggest problem I have with CoKs is their tendency to fail stupidity checks at the worst times possible. Even failing it once will hamper your plans no matter how cunning, so I guess I don't field them because of that bit of unpredictability coming from them. Though...having said that, I still use two chariots in my army, difference being the chariots are almost always in the center of my army, where it'll benefit from BSB rerolls more frequently, and even if they don't walk forwards, the enemy will walk towards them. CoKs for me, are usually used in the flanks, they're 2+ AS, but still T3 so are still somewhat vulnerable. If they fail a stupidity check whilst maneuvering along the flanks, they'll be a long way away from the action that's boiling in the center.

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Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

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Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:04 am
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Executioner

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COK has been maby the most troublesome unit to field in the past. From the ld8 stupidity and str 3 crap to the much better ld 9 and str 4. TWith te changes in 8 ed it is still abit early to tell if they er game winners or not. Pros and cons : pros= stipidity is practically gone and much ezier ot avoid beeing marsh blocked. Cons= unreliable charge range, cant brake ranks ( unless fielded as a big unit ) and less reliable can opener with the steadfast and stepping up rules. The fear is said to be nerfed since no autobrake, but im not so sure. Needing to test in every round of combat is good compensation. They are said to be good against monsters since not taking dammage from stomp and prolly can be good at holding up a block of inf cuz of high ld and bsb nearby, but can also be eaten in one round if unlucky. My biggest consern with them has always been that I find them abit slow with their MA7. And as for Knights go you go, there still is som T4 1+ save knights out there that excells compare to ours.

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Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:03 am
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My COK's have always failed me.

Not their fault ..... well in a way it was their fault, but I continued to fail the stupidity test in every game when I needed them the most.

One game they were stupid, along with their Chariot brothers, for 3 out of the 4 rounds the game lasted.

When some 800 points of my army is moving slowly across the board, and my opponent laughs and just avoids them entirely just in case, I start to have a disadvantage.

I was happy to see the Cold One standard, but now all my friends are asking me if I'm bringing my DE army and then follow it up with a statement that I better bring a BSB.

With the new BSB rules I plan on bringing back my COK units and their CoH ... I will be bringing a BSB as well, but I'm feel putting the BSB with the CoB is going to be a bad idea. It will most likely be riding a CO right next to the unit and babysit them into the melee.


Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:55 pm
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The BSB is pretty much mandatory in 8th, anyways. ;)

Bye
Thanee


Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:05 pm
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