How do you fight teclis?

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights

Post Reply
User avatar
Melikai the wicked
Black Guard
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:15 pm

How do you fight teclis?

Post by Melikai the wicked »

Im getting ready for round 2 of the 'Ard boyz and the delimma I have is how do i stop teclis? Mainly when he is deployed with the phoenix guards, a bsb, and caderyan with the banner of sorcery? The lore he usually uses is life but i have seen him use death. Either way usuing characters is not a good idea as he can snipe them before you get there and the ring of hotek wont work on teclis. So you guys have any tactics?
From the Frozen Peaks of IronFrost, Arises the Eternal Servent of Khaine
User avatar
N'kari
Shade
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:27 am

Post by N'kari »

Charge the unit with shades and challenge assassin in, then take flank with a dragon lord and use tricksters shard, he won't like that much.

Make sure the assassin touches teclis, if he challenges, kill the challenger. and try and do some extra wounds, then beat on unit with dragon, breath, lord, stomp and use trickster shard at start of combat phase, so he needs to reroll those saves, his unit wount look nice.

Having Cauldron also on table, can give killing blow to shades, so they can try and murder the other chars in the first round.

N'kari
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!
"belgian politician"

3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win.
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Post by Dalamar »

He's T3... Death Magic him.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
User avatar
N'kari
Shade
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:27 am

Post by N'kari »

T2 actually, but Caredhryan has MR 3 so giving him a 4+ Ward save against wounds.
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!
"belgian politician"

3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win.
User avatar
Fingol23
Malekith's Personal Guard
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:13 pm

Post by Fingol23 »

Morathi with darksword, probably won't work but it would be funny if it did.
WIP First War Against Chaos Expansion
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t= ... e7da5c4719

WS3 / S3 / T3 / D4 / I5
Skills: Basic Stealth
Items: Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak
User avatar
Dyvim tvar
Lord of the Dragon Caves
Lord of the Dragon Caves
Posts: 8372
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
Contact:

Post by Dyvim tvar »

One word -- Shadowblade. I'm taking him in my round 2 army just for this purpose. Main thing is to appear in BTB with Teclis but NOT issue a challenge. If your opponent issues a challenge you do have to take it but that just delays the inevitable.
Truly These are the End Times ...
Deathsshadow
Slave (off the Altar)
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:27 pm

Post by Deathsshadow »

Could you run him down with a chariot? he cant hide from it using a challenge and he must be placed in the front rank? I usually try to wipe him out with my black coach when using my vampire counts.
User avatar
Dyvim tvar
Lord of the Dragon Caves
Lord of the Dragon Caves
Posts: 8372
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
Contact:

Post by Dyvim tvar »

Chariot can't march so will have trouble getting to him quickly enough. The chariot would likely get nuked by magic or shooting before it could get there. A hydra could be better for the job due to its ability to march and all the attacks it could throw at Teclis to make sure to kill him.
Truly These are the End Times ...
Deathsshadow
Slave (off the Altar)
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:27 pm

Post by Deathsshadow »

I guess I am used to my coach vs regular chariots, 2+ ward vs magic, etherealness, flying and van hels make it a bit more effective than the average chariot.

I think the ring of hotek is a useful tool against teclis, obviously not quite as effective as against normal casters, but he only ignores his first miscast per turn and his whole way of working is forcing things through with irresistable force, so he is possibly going to roll 2 doubles in a turn, and thats a big chunk of points to get sucked into the realm of chaos.
User avatar
Melikai the wicked
Black Guard
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:15 pm

Post by Melikai the wicked »

Well the only success ive had with the unit is ASF CoK's which do damage but then teclis will bring back all the models that I just killed but the knights do tie up the unit long enough to aloow me to flank charge it. I was thinking what N'kari said so I made a dragonlord with WoA, Talisman of Preservation, and Other tricksters shard. Now even the dragon forces all sucessful ward save to be re-rolled. As for the ring of hotek from what I understand even if I force a miscast the spell will go off, which makes the purpose of of the ring much weaker.
From the Frozen Peaks of IronFrost, Arises the Eternal Servent of Khaine
A18no
Cold One Knight
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada

Post by A18no »

Dyvim Tvar wrote:One word -- Shadowblade. I'm taking him in my round 2 army just for this purpose. Main thing is to appear in BTB with Teclis but NOT issue a challenge. If your opponent issues a challenge you do have to take it but that just delays the inevitable.


You make it appear on your opponent turn right? To get 2 chances to kill him. Cause a shadow teclis will only fly on his next magic phase, if you use shadowblade on you turn.

But if he challenge you with the phoenix guard champ, you'll loose the combat and run. Don't think that you'll be in 12" of the cauldron at the time you'll play shadowblade...

Can you tell me exactly the strategy for shadowblade, i just don't see a good situation to play him. To easy to avoid or challenge with a champ, and 300pts that go with the simple move is... a little scary to me.
User avatar
Pjeos
Executioner
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:14 am

Post by Pjeos »

@a18no:

Easy. Teclis is usually deployed in the corners, at least, to the best of my knowledge. Shadowblade has Dark poison (don't exactly know how it's called in english) that makes wounds caused in a challenge count as double. So he easily kills the challenger and get +7 CR (5 from challenge, 1 for charge, 1 for flank) and Teclis' unit takes a test. Next turn you take down Teclis (Assassin's will still reroll to hit after 1st round due to ASF and I 10).

Only problem is Caradryan, Teclis' most usual bodyguard. Whoever kills him will take D6 wounds, no AS. If Caradryan challenges Shadowblade, both will probably die.

I have had trouble too with Teclis and, so far, the best solution that has worked for me has been taking 2 DP heores. Or else, Dragonlord + DP master. The tactic is to double charge Teclis' unit. Caradryan issues challenge, one heroe takes the challenge while the second takes Teclis down.

Stubborn Lord + master has worked really well. It both finishes Teclis and tarpit's it's unit. It is also a very versatile combination in a tourney environment as you can use them to tarpit most other Deathstars out there.
User avatar
Melikai the wicked
Black Guard
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:15 pm

Post by Melikai the wicked »

Well the problem I see is that the Phoenix guards are 20 strong with 3 character in the unit being only 5 wide means only two of the three characters will be in the front. That means teclis is in the back and will still be able to cast spells. So shadow blade is not a good option cause he will never reach teclis.
From the Frozen Peaks of IronFrost, Arises the Eternal Servent of Khaine
User avatar
Dyvim tvar
Lord of the Dragon Caves
Lord of the Dragon Caves
Posts: 8372
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
Contact:

Post by Dyvim tvar »

Melikai The Wicked wrote:Well the problem I see is that the Phoenix guards are 20 strong with 3 character in the unit being only 5 wide means only two of the three characters will be in the front. That means teclis is in the back and will still be able to cast spells. So shadow blade is not a good option cause he will never reach teclis.


If a High Elf player has 3 characters in a unit of only 20 Phoenix Guard, then massed missile fire should do the job. Sure, they have a 4+ ward save, but you should still be able to nuke that unit with massed crossbow and RBT fire.
Truly These are the End Times ...
User avatar
Pjeos
Executioner
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:14 am

Post by Pjeos »

Melikai The Wicked wrote:Well the problem I see is that the Phoenix guards are 20 strong with 3 character in the unit being only 5 wide means only two of the three characters will be in the front. That means teclis is in the back and will still be able to cast spells. So shadow blade is not a good option cause he will never reach teclis.


That's a good point. In my expirience, Teclis' unit has always been approximately 30 man Swordmasters/Phoenix Guard in 7 wide ranks.

Anyway, double charging with Lord + Master is still ok for you. First, you issue a challenge with the Lord. Either he refuses and you move a character to the rear ranks, therefore moving Teclis to the front, or he accepts with some character. You solve the challenge first (because Lord has higher I) and finish off the HE character/champion, and Teclis moves to the front rank taking the place of the dead character/champion. That's why it's important to charge your characters so that your Master is in contact with the most likely challengers: Caradryan>Unit champion>BSB, so that he will be in contact with Teclis when he moves to the front rank. Then, your Master can attack Teclis because he is in BtB contact after the challenge and Master has lower I.

I played against HE this morning and succesfully assassinated Teclis by turn 2 by doing this. Also, i've found the way to killing Caradryan and not dying in the process: my stubborn Lord was riding a Black Dragon and wielded a 2 hand weapon, Dragon killed Caradryan before the Lord could attack, took D6 wounds and the Lord survived to tarpit the 30 man Phoenix Guard.

If you decide to use this "tactic", i suggest that should mount both your Lord and your master in Dark Pegasus (Lord can take Black Dragon for the great effect) because their base will be big enough to touch any base in that 5 wide Phoenix Guard and Teclis won't hide from your heroes.

In case something goes wrong (for example, your Master is dead before hitting Teclis), your stubbron Lord will hold his ground for long turns so you can assist him later in the game with some flank charge with ranked units, Hydras or whatever.


Bye
User avatar
Meteor
Executioner
Posts: 1956
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Location: Hell

Post by Meteor »

Yea I have the same problem too, but it's against a horde of pheonixguards, ie 40 in 10x4. It's not going to work if you charge in with a solo character because as mentioned, you'll get challenged. Worst part is if Teclis takes lore of life and gets the reviving spell. The champ will continue to return to protect teclis against character assassinations. So the most effective way to remove teclis is with regular troops, which will get butchered by the ASF S4 halberds. So I'm stuck with that problem too. The one time I came close to killing him was with Dwellers from Below when I was using WE. Got it off on IF but the b*****d rolled a 1 for his strength test. :roll:
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued
User avatar
Pjeos
Executioner
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:14 am

Post by Pjeos »

Meteor wrote:Yea I have the same problem too, but it's against a horde of pheonixguards, ie 40 in 10x4. It's not going to work if you charge in with a solo character because as mentioned, you'll get challenged. Worst part is if Teclis takes lore of life and gets the reviving spell. The champ will continue to return to protect teclis against character assassinations. So the most effective way to remove teclis is with regular troops, which will get butchered by the ASF S4 halberds. So I'm stuck with that problem too. The one time I came close to killing him was with Dwellers from Below when I was using WE. Got it off on IF but the b*****d rolled a 1 for his strength test. :roll:


I usually relay on characters to kill him (double character charge) because my regular HE opponent usually takes Lore of Fire. But if he choosed Lore of Life i would definitely throw one or two Hyrdas into his face and he would be pretty well dead.
User avatar
Meteor
Executioner
Posts: 1956
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Location: Hell

Post by Meteor »

I literally threw everything I had at the said unit of forty pheonixguards with teclis inside, the pheonixguard special character and a BSB inside. Hydra survived with one wound remaining, he chewed through my two units of forty spears, a chariot and that Hydra in second combat round. The biggest problem is that Teclis shuts down my magic phase, so I can't cast things like word of pain and the withering to make them easier to kill. Shooting is useless since we cant target a specific model in a unit. I've yet to find a solution for CC. I think duo hero charge involving an assassin will be the way to go. It'll be an expensive loss since you'll burning up a potential 200-250pts there, but it needs to be done I guess :?
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued
User avatar
N'kari
Shade
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:27 am

Post by N'kari »

Guys,

dont make it that difficult.... jee

Shadowblade
Bsb on peggy full mundane with sword of might, khaleath;

charge unit with the bsb, reveal Shadowblade, place him next to Teclis.

If opponent challenges you take on with bsb, and live; then shadowblade proceeds to kill Teclis.

In this scenario, you can even use your magic phase to dispell eventual buffs.

One Dead teclis and with some luck his uber bunker stuck for a very long time.
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!
"belgian politician"

3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win.
User avatar
Melikai the wicked
Black Guard
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:15 pm

Post by Melikai the wicked »

See the problem is N'kari is that your up against caderayn, a fixed up bsb and teclis in the back with phoenix guards so shadow blade will never touch teclis and killing caderayn means one dead BsB since our BsB of doom has no save against his blowing up ability. So its gonna take more then character to kill teclis. My plan is to bring ASF knights and hydra and a lord on dragon taking out that unit will give me the game as all those points will be sunk into that one unit. The only problem would be getting there with teclis using lore of life and dwellers below so its down to alil bit of luck and planning.
From the Frozen Peaks of IronFrost, Arises the Eternal Servent of Khaine
User avatar
Dalamar
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons

Post by Dalamar »

Seriously, have you tried Death Magic?
Sure he can dispel one spell per phase for free, but you hit him with three. Most of the time only one of them needs to go through.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Post Reply