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2500pts Monster Mash 
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:45 pm
Posts: 26
There are quite a few Horde units popping up in my area, and I've been mulling over a list to try and deal with said units, and just infantry in general. I'm still relatively new to 8th edition, but I've played plenty of 6th and 7th, even some 5th, so I'm more than familiar with the core concepts of the game. This is the list I've come up with so far, and as the name should indicate, it's rather heavy on big things with which to smash.

Lords

Dreadlord w/ Hvy. Armor, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Giant Blade, Pendant of Kaeleth, Potion of Foolhardiness, Pair of Rpt. Handbows
Black Dragon
591pts


Heroes

Master w/ Hvy. Armor, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Ring of Hotek
Manticore
319pts

Master w/ Hvy. Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Charmed Shield, Luckstone
Manticore
302pts


Core

20 Crossbowmen w/ Shields, Musician
225pts

20 Crossbowmen w/ Shields, Musician
225pts

21 Spearmen w/ Shields, Full Command, Warbanner
187pts


Special

Cold One Chariot
100pts

Cold One Chariot
100pts

Cold One Chariot
100pts


Rare

War Hydra
175pts

War Hydra
175pts


Total: 2499pts


Such is the list. Only really the Ring for Magic Defense, but I'm hoping that with the new magic system I should at least to be able to mitigate some of the damage.

Outside of that, this is really something of a silly hard counter to what my area is looking like, i.e. Hordes and infantry in general are king. Plus, it gives me an excuse to put 5 painted big uglies on the table and see the look on the other guy's face when he sees them.

Comments/suggestions are welcome. Anything that can make Hordes and other big, silly, huge units hurt are welcome.


Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:43 am
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Corsair
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A monster list! :D
This should be one of the most typical DE list.
I don't see any flaw, but please report how it behaves!

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Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:08 am
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Beastmaster
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You could try to fit the seal of Ghrond on one of your masters I think. Every little bit could help.

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Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:29 am
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Black Guard
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:40 am
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Very cool list!
Reminds me of my full speed lists in 7th :)

The only thing i would change if that was my list is:
I would change 1 of your manti heroes for a sorceress on a DP, preferably with Dark magic.

The main reason is to get chillwind, so that you can maybe dont get hit by those big nasty fire shooting units that i hate soooo much...

Again very cool list, and let us know how you do!

Cheers!

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Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:02 am
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:45 pm
Posts: 26
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Seralkith wrote:
You could try to fit the seal of Ghrond on one of your masters I think. Every little bit could help.


I would love to, but sadly 625pts is my cap for Heroes, and I personally find the Ring more useful than the Seal, simply because of how horrifying the Miscast table is these days. Would that I could fit only 50ish more points into Heroes, I would be much happier with them (Deathpiercier + The Other Trickster's Shard for 7 KB attacks and re-rolling ward saves). Name of the game is getting 2 Manticores on the table, the riders are secondary.

Kaleth Stinson wrote:
I would change 1 of your manti heroes for a sorceress on a DP, preferably with Dark magic.


Certainly an idea, and something I will consider if I ever try and slide this list towards being an 'all comers' list. However, I think that would only really serve to dilute the effect of the list. I find that big monsters have a multiplicative effect on the table, i.e. one is nice, but two are more than twice as powerful as one, and three are more than three times as effective as one, so on and so forth. Having 5 on the table is going to be pretty crazy. 4 was the most that I was ever able to do in 7th edition (2 Manticores & 2 Hydras), so I was a little blown away when I saw that I could do 5 at the point level being played at my shop. Toss in the chariots? Forget about it.

Going to be playing tonight, hopefully. Will be sure to report back.


Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:56 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:53 pm
Posts: 33
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Nice.

Couple things though. War banner is 35 points now, and I don't think would help you on the spears anyway (like you said, you're seeing hordes).
Banner of eternal flame is 10 points and would help make a mess of regen beasts like hellpits and bad (not yours) hydras.

That should allow you to sneak a magic lance onto a master.

Should be a very fast list, but steadfast may be the biggest problem as most everything will be stubborn.


Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:26 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:45 pm
Posts: 26
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martian wrote:
Nice.

Couple things though. War banner is 35 points now, and I don't think would help you on the spears anyway (like you said, you're seeing hordes).
Banner of eternal flame is 10 points and would help make a mess of regen beasts like hellpits and bad (not yours) hydras.

That should allow you to sneak a magic lance onto a master.

Should be a very fast list, but steadfast may be the biggest problem as most everything will be stubborn.


Actually, it mentions in the magic items section that you're supposed to use the new rules of the warhammer rulebook for the items, but the point value for the items from the Warhammer Armies book in question. So, as far as I can tell, the Warbanner is still 25pts for Dark Elves, as that's what it says in our Army Book.

Plus, the Warbanner is there because without it, I was at 605pts for my core, and I needed 625pts minimum. Warbanner was the easiest way to fill that gap in.

And I would love to take a magic Lance on one of the Masters, but that would require losing either the Ring of Hotek (my only magic defense) or some of the mundane kit from one or both of the riders.

It's not that I don't have enough points overall to kit them out as I like, it's that I have to keep the total of both of the riders down to 625pts or less so that I don't go over 25 percent of my total, and with 2 Manticores and 2 naked Masters running 560pts, I've only got 65pts for equipment both magical and mundane across both models.

And steadfast is certainly going to be an issue. That's why the objective of the list is to simply get as close as possible to killing units to a man. With all of the high strength attacks, the impact hits, and the Thunderstomps, I think I stand a good chance of that.

I doubt most Hordes will be able to stand the charge of all five monsters and some chariots. And vs smaller, non-horde units, I'm going to aim to put 2 Hydras and as many Chariots as possible into one, and a Dragon and 2 Manticores into another. Walnut with a sledgehammer.

Thanks for the comments.


Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:59 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:53 pm
Posts: 33
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As many times as I read the FAQ, it never registered that way in my brain.
So that's cool.

That being the case, I still think it's out of place. How about the flaming banner and 2 extra dudes? :)

Or the AP banner. If you kill one more person it's a wash, any more is gravy.


Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:19 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:45 pm
Posts: 26
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Played two games tonight with the list against Lizardmen and High Elves. Both games went well, with me winning both of them handily. I learned more than a few things from both games.

In the High Elf Game I must say that while the Monsters were indeed awesome, the 2 units of Crossbowmen told heavily and did just as much damage as the beasties. I've never run units that big before, and 40 shots vs those T. 3, 5+ save units is just brutal. They gunned down an entire unit of Spear Elves, a whole unit of Silver Helms, and blew apart a White Lion Chariot, plus cut a unit of Swordmasters in half.

Also, I learned that a Hydra will completely and utterly destroy a unit of Spear Elves, even by itself and fighting from its front. The 3D6 Str. 4-5 hits from the breath weapon and the Thunderstomp just murders them horribly, not to mention the 13 hatred attacks. Might not be news to many here, but I was a little blown away at how quickly the unit just evaporated.


The Lizardmen game went similarly well. The Ring of Hotek payed off just as much as I thought it would. My god, Miscasts are simply brutal. With Ring prompted-miscasts a Skink Priest sucked himself into the warp off of his Engine of the Gods, and the Slann killed 15 of his 16 Temple Guard with a template of Strength 10 hits on his head.

The Saraus Horde crumbled when it was slammed with 4 of the 5 monsters and 2 of the three chariots. Between Thunderstomps, impact hits, and breath weapons, I killed them down to less than ten models by the time everything was said and done, and they broke just fine then.

The only thing that I think the list could really use would be a BSB. It wasn't an issue when I was stacking against one unit, but especially in the Lizardmen game after I destroyed the Horde and split my monsters up to go and fight the less impressive units in the enemy army, I found myself facing static res even from the flank, and units simply reforming in subsequent rounds of combat. In a couple of places my dice flubbed without Hatred, and Monsters broke from combats they probably shouldn't have. A mobile BSB would have helped things a lot.

I'm considering dropping the Pendant of Kaeleth from my general and putting the Ring on him, as at no point during either game was he ever called upon to make a ward save, and at very few points did he even make an army save, mostly because he was bullying units that weren't any threat to him in the first place, or slaughtering rank and file models. Doing so would free up points for a BSB on one of my Masters. Probably what I'll be trying next.


Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:29 am
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Executioner
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 1956
Location: Hell
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Nice to hear it works without needing R&F units to back you up against blocks of infantry. I'm considering an exactly same monster mash build at 2500pts in a local tournament for a bit of a laugh. I'll be taxed heavily on comp score, possibly a 0, but if it means these 5 beasts of beauty will run rampant and destroy everything, then so be it.

So it's nice to see someone making a list and reporting back on its outcome.

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Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:20 am
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Beastmaster
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Posts: 333
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That list is hilarious (right now a good thing) i read the list and just laughed and thought THIS IS FUN! though not at a friendly match.. but yeah it is a list that i would like to run at least ones just to try and have that many monsters.. and as expected you slaughtered everything.. :D well done mate..

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Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:41 am
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Generalissimo
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Can't say I'm a big fan of monster lists.

I'd use the list you posted for the fun occasional game, but regularly? No. It's a spam list and falls into the exact same issues as all spam lists:

1) Against unprepared opponents your army will usually achieve crushing victories because your opponent will have brought a balanced army that is unable to cope with the mass spammed element (e.g. they won't have enough shooting or manoeuverability to stop your waves of monsters and chariots from running circles around them and getting tons of nasty combined flank and rear charges)

2) Against suitably prepared opponents your army will flop like a damp rag because they'll have brought the exact components needed to stop you in your tracks (try running that many monsters against an army with spammed bolt throwers, cannons, fire mages and crossbowmen with flaming bolts, for example...you won't get desperately far: 4 T5 wounds with no armour save on a manti doesn't last long at all under concerted fire, nor even does T5 with 5 wounds and a 4+ scaly skin save against flaming attacks that remove regeneration).

I guess it would be fun to play now and then, as a change from more balanced armies, but personally I think it has lots of scope for further development.

Sorry to be so dreary, but I think it always helps to have a range of perspectives on these things :)

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Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:10 am
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Executioner
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Absolutely Red.

I used it today, it was great fun, for me anyway. Totally smashed Ogres, a Butcher and a Slaughtermaster unit in turn 1. Tyrant got eaten by the DragonLady on turn 2. Turn 3 was saving my CoKs from a rear and called it there.

Then another friend challenged me to a monster mash duel. WE dragon, two trees and a Great Eagle Noble vs the said list. We ended with a draw in the end. Though I swapped the three chariots for 10 CoKs with ASF. Did a bit of trimming here and there for the points but yea, it was amusing.

But I still prefer to stick to the typical balanced lists, I feared my brain was going to turn dumb after my two games today, because they really didn't require any thinking aside from moving things to safer spots where they can charge and kill.

_________________
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued


Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:39 am
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