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Dealing with Empire 
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:00 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Maple Grove MN
So how do we defeat empire when they run 2 cannons, 2 mortors, a steam tank, war alter, and a rod of power? all my forces are at a fith if that by the time they get into combat. Oh and lets not forget the enginer that lets them reroll one of their dice.


Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:59 pm
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Black Guard
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:40 am
Posts: 292
Location: A cold and dark place! (Norway)
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What points are you playing? And what else does he have in his army?

First things that comes to mind are:

- Lots of harpies, shades and dark riders to take out the war machines and re-directing.
- max out on hydras. Even though he has canons, their not flaming. If only one hydra reaches their lines, prepare to watch his lines fall apart.
- avoid having big units. The less his mortars have to shoot on, the better. Use small units of Black Guards and such in thin lines like 2x7 or something.
- against this kind of army is where lores like Dark, Death and Shadow shines. Get a lvl4 with dagger and lvl 2 with Dispel scroll. Dark is great against hordes, BS shooters and war machines. Shadow is a allround great lore and Death is at its best against this type of lists.

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Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:52 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:00 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Maple Grove MN
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its 2200 comped list we r practicing for the Northstar GT tourny in november so i only have one hydra and only two units of harpies. My 20 grave guard get decimatted by the time they hit anything, his noble on a peg gets into my back line, he generates at least once per game 13 dispel dice. Its really tough with the was alter casting the war machines killing units just trying to get to him. Grrr lol


Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:10 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 987
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1) Shades. The scout rule allows them to deploy close to the enemy, and therefore in easy shooting range of their warmachines - possily even decent charge range. And if he shoots at the scouts... well, then he's not shooting at your battleline, is he?

2) Harpies can also get into close combat with warmachines in a hurry - no later than turn 2. They are also totally expendable.

3) Magic. Pit of Shades drops warmachines (and the Stank) right off the map. Anything with mass attacks plus Mindrazor will shatter the Stank. Several spells available to us can prevent a unit from shooting. Lore of Death can snipe characters (like the guy on the War Alter).

Of course, getting spells past his magic defense can be tricky. Sometimes you just need to put the 4+ ward or POK on a solo caster on a Peggie, maneuver in, and throw everything at one spell. He can only have one Dispel scroll after all. Get him to blow it on turn one Pit of Shades from the flank and you should be able to get some spells off on subsequent turns.

4) The Unkillable Dread on Dark Peggy. They can shoot all they want, they'll find it very hard to kill him. Then he can go after whatever target you want. He's very handy for tarpitting the Stank too.

5) Cold One Knights. Their speed means they will be in close combat on turn 2, being able to reliably charge to within 7" of his board edge (and max charge range of within 3" of his board edge). 5 naked or only with a musician are all you'll need in any given unit, but feel free to take multiple units. Use them to deal with his actual combat blocks while...

6) Dark Riders. With an 18" march on turn one they can charge the far edge of the board on turn two (the average charge will take them to 1" of the far edge, their max charge is several inches off it), even without a Vanguard move. With it, you can be charging on turn one to an average of within 7" of his edge of the board... assuming he gets the first turn and not you. Take 10-15 shielded with command in the medium cavalry role (forsaking Vanguard for extra bodies and durability), or 5 with musician and RXBs for harrassment (and expendability at need).

7) A Master on Dark Peggie with the Cloak of Hag Graef. Halving the strength of a cannonball makes it much easier to shrug off. Then fly over there and kill it.

8 ) Ironcurse Icon. Helps any unit survive the round or two of shooting he should be getting before you reach close combat. Probably works best on your biggest unit, numberswise.

9) Repeater Bolt Throwers. I'll grant you they are no match for cannon. But they have the range to shoot at the crew on turn one, and if your opponent wastes a turn shooting at them, it gives your troops a free turn to get into close combat where they will be safe.

10) The oft-forgotten terrain deployment. Block long sightlines with terrain, hills and forests in the middle of the board, that sort of thing. And be strict with LOS, being nice favors him and not you.

If this was a nice friendly game, he wouldn't be running that build, after all.

11) The most universal option: Get Into Combat FAST! Once your stuff is in close combat, his cannon and mortars are so many paperweights.

12) Multiple Small Units. The odds are a single cannon or mortar shot will not kill everything in a unit in one hit. So don't give him one big, juicy target, give him a lot of little ones. Then all you have to do is preserve the survivors of that mortar hit to deny him the VP for the whole unit.

Besides, small units take fewer casualties from templates than large units.


Lots of options are available. The trick is going to be finding the proper combination of options that works best for your playstyle.[/b]


Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:21 pm
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Black Guard
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:40 am
Posts: 292
Location: A cold and dark place! (Norway)
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Crimsongrail wrote:
its 2200 comped list we r practicing for the Northstar GT tourny in november so i only have one hydra and only two units of harpies.

Okay, but then you have to get shades and a flying Master to threaten his War Machines earlier.

Crimsongrail wrote:
My 20 grave guard get decimatted by the time they hit anything,

I think you mean Black Guards? deply them 10x2 wide and give them 5+ ward.
Crimsongrail wrote:
his noble on a peg gets into my back line

Unless you use RBT and small units of rxb this should not be a problem.

Crimsongrail wrote:
he generates at least once per game 13 dispel dice.

Here I guess you mean 12? It does not matter how many DD he has when you throw all your PD on Purple sun or Pit of Shades.

Crimsongrail wrote:
Its really tough with the was alter casting the war machines killing units just trying to get to him. Grrr lol

Thats how it is against gun lines. But when you first come to their line, you should be fine.


Can you show us what kind of list you are using? Makes it easier to see where the problem is.

_________________
Jaith wrote:
"Why 10% more expensive?"

Mighty Beardtrix wrote:
"Because GW once said:"

"All your cash are belongs to us!"


Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:23 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:00 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Maple Grove MN
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yep i posted my current list in the army list section just trying to maximise my list for the comped tourny coming in november


Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:42 pm
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Black Guard
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:40 am
Posts: 292
Location: A cold and dark place! (Norway)
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I saw that now xD

_________________
Jaith wrote:
"Why 10% more expensive?"

Mighty Beardtrix wrote:
"Because GW once said:"

"All your cash are belongs to us!"


Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:02 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 9:16 am
Posts: 211
Location: Ironspike
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Though Dark Elves melt like butter to sustained artillery fire, we are blessed with a range of effective choices in our list to deal with such threats. Spread your forces - I myself use two units of shades, a unit of dark riders and a scouting assassin to deal with artillery. These units are not combat monsters, but serve a strong psychological impact. It can sometimes pay to be flexible with your characters - sometimes I will deploy my Dreadlord (Crimson Death, PoK, Dark Steed) on his own to soak up fire and mop up smaller units instead of increasing the punch of my CoK unit. Having invested so much in static shooting, the combat potential of the Empire army will be limited. Capitalise on this and make the most of deployment and the movement phase.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:20 am
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:00 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Maple Grove MN
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I have my list posted do you guys think that a master or lord on a flying mount is more efficent than CoKs, i mean is it a must in an optimal list? ive tried to build a 2200 list with a lord on peg and a lvl 4 w/ sac dagger and if i remember right its to many points is it not? I just want to get a list locked in so i make sure i have ample time for the tourny in November.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:37 pm
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