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Filthing it up - Best No comp Dark Elves. 
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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Hi guys,

I went to the UK Autumn Throne of Skulls event at the weekend. I looked at 'filthing it up' as has been the custom for these events in the past. I toyed with a few different options and in the end settled on this:

Dreadlord - Gen; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Dark Steed, Sword of Might, Dragonhelm, Pendant of Khaeleth, Crown of Command

Supreme Sorceress - Lv 4, Shadow, Lifetaker, Sacrificial Dagger
Death Hag - BSB, CoB
Sorceress -Lv2 Fire, Dispel Scroll

25 Dark Elf Warriors - FC
30 Black Ark Corsairs - FC, xhw, Sea Serpent Standard
15 Dark Elf Warriors, Musician
5 Harpies
10 Shades - xhw
9 Shades - xhw
9 Shades - xhw
20 Black Guard -Mu, St, Banner of Eternal Flame


Its not as overtly brutal as something like my 7th Edition GT lists (Dragon, Shades, Assassins) but I think its the most powerful list i can write in this edition (and meta) at 2400 points, no comp.

What do you guys think is the killer no comp DE list currently.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:43 pm
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Where is the DL going, and I suspect you are a bit heavy on characters.

I would drop some of the shades for a hydra.

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:48 pm
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benji wrote:
What do you guys think is the killer no comp DE list currently.


I don't know what it is but I know it starts with 2 Hydra. 2 Hydra can take on some 2,400 point armies practically by themselves.


Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:51 pm
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Two Hydras is good, but vulnerable.

If you run into Empire or Dwarves, or someone who can force through a Pit of Shades, Purple Sun or Crack's Call with reliability, or the Brass Orb, or someone with reliable Poison/Flaming shooting (or, in the case of Tomb Kings, Poisoned Flaming shooting) then the Hydras are done. If you go with two Hydras, you need Lore of Shadows and Pegasus riders to scare warmachines.

I would say something along the lines of:

-Pegasus Dreadlord, Crown of Command, Pendant, Dragonhelm.
-Pegasus Master with Cloak of Hag Graef
-Level 4 with Sacrificial Dagger
-Possible Cauldron of Blood; major liability here is the aforementioned Initiative-based spells.
-Appropriate Spear bunker
-Multiple Harpy units
-Corsairs or Witch Elves to taste, for Mindrazor/Withering. Black Guard can work if the Pegasi riders/Shades can take down template-based warmachines fast enough.
-Shades/Crossbows to taste, with Withering
-Hydra(s)

Guaranteed to beat the support units of any opponent, mobile enough to get out of the way of Deathstars, Mindrazor/Cauldron access to tackle anything in combat, Pit of Shades for warmachines and monsters.

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Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:30 am
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Quote:
Two Hydras is good, but vulnerable.

If you run into Empire or Dwarves, or someone who can force through a Pit of Shades, Purple Sun or Crack's Call with reliability, or the Brass Orb, or someone with reliable Poison/Flaming shooting (or, in the case of Tomb Kings, Poisoned Flaming shooting) then the Hydras are done. If you go with two Hydras, you need Lore of Shadows and Pegasus riders to scare warmachines.


Yup, flickering fire of Tzeentch = Hydra kebabs. So too does Flaming sword of rhuin on a bunch of archers.

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Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:54 am
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90% of lists at any tournament you go to will bring down the hydras very fast. If they can't then you probably don't need the hydras to win as its not a very good list

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Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:29 am
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i think atleast one hydra is a must though, i mean if they're throwing all their dice/war machines at the 175pt hydra then your 320pt of BG is safe that turn.
i also think 30 shades is overkill, i really feel theyre very vurnerable vs shooters, with 30 there wont be enough cover


Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:44 am
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30 Shades is great for taking out shooting units though, as well as warmachines. Since 6s to Wound reliably kill a wound off a warmachine, it's not tough to deploy lots of Shades within range of a warmachine line and then simply shoot all the crew to death.

Otherwise, there aren't too many armies that are consistently taking Ballistic Skill-based shooting in their competitive lists. Warmachines are tending to dominate the scene a bit more these days.

If you make heavy use of Shades, you can also use the terrain deployment phase to really help favor your Scouting units.

I generally include one Hydra in most lists, but I'm giving some thought to dropping it entirely in order to try some other options. The Hydra's great in a lot of settings, but like Benji mentioned, most players include anti-Hydra counters in their list. Few players are prepared to deal with a lot of Scouting, mobile shooting.

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Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:06 pm
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The 3 x 10 shades also tend to survive for a long time, meaning 60 shots a turn, every turn. Its doing 10 wounds to t3 troops. Thats a massive amount taken off a combat unit or really cripples a shooty support unit.

If you get a good withering off it can take out a whole unit in 1 go.

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Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:03 am
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It's funny, the more I look at other armies, the better Dark Elves become.

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Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:10 am
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And would you guys keep the Shades basic, or give them 2 Hand weapons??


Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:23 pm
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Tethlis wrote:
I would say something along the lines of:

-Pegasus Dreadlord, Crown of Command, Pendant, Dragonhelm.
-Pegasus Master with Cloak of Hag Graef
-Level 4 with Sacrificial Dagger
-Possible Cauldron of Blood; major liability here is the aforementioned Initiative-based spells.
-Appropriate Spear bunker
-Multiple Harpy units
-Corsairs or Witch Elves to taste, for Mindrazor/Withering. Black Guard can work if the Pegasi riders/Shades can take down template-based warmachines fast enough.
-Shades/Crossbows to taste, with Withering
-Hydra(s)

Guaranteed to beat the support units of any opponent, mobile enough to get out of the way of Deathstars, Mindrazor/Cauldron access to tackle anything in combat, Pit of Shades for warmachines and monsters.



And how are you going to get all of this in a 2500pts list?
Also, no Black Guards??


Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:40 pm
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Alright, (sorry for the 3th post in a row) I've made a 2500 points list out of all the advice here, tell me what you guys think:


Dreadlord: Pegasus, Crown, Pendant, SDC, HA, Shield, Dragonhelm, Soulrender

Supreme Sorceress: lvl 4 (shadow), Lifetaker, Dagger

Death Hag BSB: Cauldron

Sorceress: lvl 2 (no idea, Dark of Fire), Seal of Ghrond, Tome of Furion

15 Spearmen: champ, muso

30 Corsairs: FC, SSS

18 RxB's: Muso

20 Black Guard: FC, Banner of Murder

11 Shades (could be split in 2 units).

2 Hydra's

exactly 2500pts.


Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:17 pm
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I've actually nicked your idea for Winter Incursion Ben, I hope you don't mind. Out goes the hydra, in comes the third unit of shades.

Looking back over my last few tournaments and games, the hydra doesn't really seem to ever do that much for me, with one glaring exception- when I am playing a bad list/player, at which point it can rip them apart. Personally, I see hydras as an easy 175 pts, or at the very least a way to draw out the dispel scroll turn 1 with a Pit.

However, just about every decent or better list/player I've come across can deal with a hydra. That's not to say it's a bad choice- it's pts value and statline speak for themselves, and it does have that potential to ruin hobbies. But mine has only ever been a fire magnet for cannons, that would otherwise be shooting... 2 or 3 Corsairs a turn :/

@Madrid69- drop the shield on the DreadPeg, with the great weapon he can't use it in combat and he already has a 1+ vs shooting.

Fire would I think be better on the support mage, and I've not found a second (and especially third) spell to be very helpful- in my experience, her role is to carry the scroll and chuck Fireballs around. In fact, with just that one spell she frequently ends up using more dice per game than my Level 4 if I don't get Withering.

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Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:24 pm
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Madrid69 wrote:
Tethlis wrote:
And how are you going to get all of this in a 2500pts list?
Also, no Black Guards??


It isn't too difficult? You might not be able to double up on both Pegasus characters comfortably, but it all still fits easily into 2500. This is especially true if you utilize Mindrazor Corsairs to fill out your Core.

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Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:01 pm
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In an unrestricted tournament, I would definitely want 4x5 Harpies. :)

Bye
Thanee


Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:19 pm
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tmarichards wrote:
@Madrid69- drop the shield on the DreadPeg, with the great weapon he can't use it in combat and he already has a 1+ vs shooting.

Fire would I think be better on the support mage, and I've not found a second (and especially third) spell to be very helpful- in my experience, her role is to carry the scroll and chuck Fireballs around. In fact, with just that one spell she frequently ends up using more dice per game than my Level 4 if I don't get Withering.


Right, gave him the soulrender after the shield and missed out on that one.

Question on you guys. I'm playing Skaven on Saturday. 2000 point.
How can I stuff this FULL with DE filth??

Normally I just randomly take some stuff, but this is a player who is REALLY annoying. On EVERYTHING and EVERY tactic, he comes out saying Skaven can do this better, ow and if you do that they can do that,... on and on and on.
Last game (1K) vs my O&G he won by a marginal margin, only to come to me the day after telling me he missed something. (something about his skavenslaves to scatter and cause damage or something after they flee). Seeing he had 2 Slave blocks of 38 slaves...

So I wanted a rematch, and REALLY want to put him on his place. I've got pretty much EVERYTHING in the book (except Executioners and only 21 Witch Elves, so can't field 30 of them. No chariots either and don't have Harpies, but the Harpies can be proxied).


Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:50 pm
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Thanee wrote:
In an unrestricted tournament, I would definitely want 4x5 Harpies. :)

Bye
Thanee


I used to think that but i've found that you end up with too many support units and nothing that does damage.

From my 2400 list above it is far too hard to get more harpies in. Pit, big fireballs, shooting, dreadlord and the single harpy unit is enough to deal with war machines.

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Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:27 pm
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I was thinking of going in a similar fashion, I already dropped one hydra, and was thinking about dropping the other, for the exact same reason they are to easily killed.
Also I'm running a local, at 2600 point's
Restrictions:
second same rare choice costs 50% more point's
third same choice special cost's 50% more point's
5+ same core choice cost's 50% more point's.
Magic, you cant generate more dice (PP and DD) then the initial DP dice.

I was thinking of going 3x20 RXB's and around 2x5/6 shades, SSS corsairs with pendant lord on foot (used it in last master, it was devastating, corsairs that are stubborn and have KB, are .... well universally great)

but what would you take, and make it filthy :lol:.

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Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:29 pm
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Quote:
And would you guys keep the Shades basic, or give them 2 Hand weapons??


Always give them two hand weapons. For a single point more, this doubles their attacks and makes them credible warmachine hunters and other small unit smashers.

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Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:36 pm
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They can beat Warmachines and small units without xhws. The xhw let's them destroy whole units when combined with the cauldren and shadow magic.

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Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:13 pm
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First, I would like to say that i really like your podcast. I have been listening to it a lot lately.

I really like your list as well. I suppose the Dreadlord can keep a deathstar looked in combat for as long as needed while the other units can simply tear apart the rest of your opponents army. I think I would have to try it out myself against a friend of mine who uses a deathstar of saurus warriors with light slann.

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Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:23 pm
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so in the list with 30 shades would you just not run xbm? im kinda shocked to hear that people are talking down hydras i know in most comp tourys we are limetted to one. Is that why you would switch over to more shades? and one more question do you guys think you will be seing more black dragon usage? i


Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:52 pm
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Not only are units of 10 shades awesome, but they're pretty hard to deal with unless you've come prepared to face them which not many people do- whereas everyone has thought how they will deal with a hydra.

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Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:03 pm
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Quote:
i think atleast one hydra is a must though, i mean if they're throwing all their dice/war machines at the 175pt hydra then your 320pt of BG is safe that turn


Right, if that were true, I'd agree. But more realistically a single unit of archers buffed by flaming sword of rhuin or a 2nd level fireball will knock 3-4 wounds off your hydra, making it's breath weapon feeble and the beast itself unlikely to survive a round of melee combat, effectively removing it as a useful tool. Your opponent will then turn his remaining warmachines/magic/archers against our 320 point unit of Black Guard.

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Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:16 pm
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