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Completely random idea with Corsairs 
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Dragon Lord
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I'm sure someone came up with this before me. But my next game I'm planning to use this:

10 Corsairs with Handbows
Reaver with a pair of handbows

and have two units like that.

Their job? Deploy in the deep flanks, race up the enemy sides and harass the hell out of them.
Sounds familiar? Sounds like something your dark riders usually do? Yep!

Here's why I'm planning to use Corsairs.

A unit of 10 like this is 113 points, that's less than smallest unit of Dark Riders with crossbows.
That's also twice as many wounds.
As well as 4+ AS against shooting attacks
And a rank (though that's probably not going to stay there for long, who knows though)
On top of that, 22 shots instead of 10, more accurate, but shorter range, but keep in mind, once they're in position, they shouldn't have issues with the range.

Why 10 and not, say 12? Because I want to keep the frontage narrow, that way they can get around enemy units easier. It's not the first time I managed to march my elves 10" next to an enemy unit avoiding them entirely.

And when they join in a fight to help out? That's still 11 attacks (if they're all alive) and the surprisingly good rule in an environment where you need to destroy entire units - slowing fleeing units down!

I'll write some notes on their effectiveness after a game... probably Wednesday.

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7th edition army book:
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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:15 am
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Assassin
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Please do, Because I am thinking about the same thing but with a unit of 21. I am getting smoked by He at the moment, and My corsairs don't last long, and they are also getting march blocked by eagles. Having extra shooting might be good for a stand and shoot. and getting those pesky eagles out of the way.

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Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:46 am
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Cold One Knight

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21 is a bit of an odd number. If you're going 3x7, then you won't get all your shots and you might find it hard to manoeuvre. 5x2+1 would just be an extra, pointless Corsair, IMO.

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Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:20 am
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yes, I run combat units in ranks of 7, and so does everyone else in my area.

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Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:29 am
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You need the musician: if your target is not in your front ark of vision, you need the muso for rearranging and shoot.

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Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:19 am
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Dragon Lord
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Yes, there's a musician there, I just missed to write it down.

And 21? their use becomes completely different. These aren't combat units, they are harassment units!

21 can end up being too wide and/or too deep to evade an enemy unit and you would have to resort to fighting.

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:10 pm
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it was just a thought, I am having trouble with my 2500 list at the moment and i need to whittle down combat troops before i engage them.

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Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:17 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Crossbowmen are far better at the job of whittling down anything.

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:42 pm
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I am taking 2 units of 10 RXB instead of 1 unit of 20, and 2 units of 6 shades.
I feel that i need to spread my forces out a bit. try no to have all my eggs in one basket.

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Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:03 pm
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I use the same setup of 10 Corsairs with Handbows, Reaver with a pair of handbows in my games. I run them similar to what you are suggesting, except I only use a single unit and tend to have my shadow sorc in there. It is nice when my opponent is looking to target the sorc, and even with the corsairs' melee strength and defense, I shadowstep my sorc out and put in a combat BSB.

Looking forward to your review!

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Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:27 pm
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Why not just use shades? They are better at it and already start closer to the enemy.

6 with xhw is nice and cheap.

If it's just for core, then ok, but shades are pretty phenomenal in 8th.

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Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:35 am
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For pure shooting abilities I would stick with shades. When you add in melee, corsairs add that little extra power that shades don't have.

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Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:08 am
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Firstly, the idea was to fill up the core with something useful, and at the same time not to overload the list in core, so that's partially the reason behind corsairs.

Corsairs are also more resilient to enemy fire, they have more wounds to soak it, and actual armor save against it. Shades only have skirmish (which doesn't help against, say, magic missiles at all)

As for shooting ability... Shades move + rapid fire already hitting on 4+, if it's long range, then 5+
Corsairs move + rapid fire - hitting on 4+, but their range is so short that shades hold a little advantage here since they still have a chance of hitting, although on 5+

Again 7 Shades cost about the same, that's 14 shots. Shades get 22. With very similar accuracy, but worse range... and higher survivability.

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:35 am
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The resilience of shades to shooting comes, mainly through staying out of shooting arc, rather than through the skirmish bonus.

You're right about resilience to magic missiles though. Do you expect to be facing many? I rarely see any these days. Plus, the mage needs them in his/her front arc to shoot. You could always factor that into your battleplans. A turn with the mage's unit facing away from the main battlelines is a turn of safety for other units from direct damage or magic missile (or conventional shooting) from that whole unit.

Anyway, no reason you couldn't do both units if needed. Let us know how it goes, especially compared to what you cut from your core. Lately I've been pretty down on my corsairs. I don't want to take shadow and they seem to bounce of any other core unit I match them against. :(

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Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:52 am
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Dragon Lord
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Thing is, at least that's what I do, is to take care of skirmishers first and harassers first. If it means swift reforming my 20 crossbows to get them, I'll do it.

Also, good deployment means only place for scouts is their own deployment zone, or in the middle of the field. It's not that easy to stay entirely out of front arcs of everything.

I'm thinking a straight up contest between 10 corsairs and 7 shades will see corsairs win in the end. (and that's what would be hunting shades in my army)

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:33 am
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Cold One Knight

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I have no idea why i have never thought of this before!

Needless to say, twenty corsairs are coming in the post (or Black Ark) as we speak.

I love you Dalamar for finally inspiring me to use some Corsairs! (always like them, never found a use for them!)

D

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Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:46 pm
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How did the units work out Dalamar?

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Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:02 pm
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sulla wrote:
You're right about resilience to magic missiles though. Do you expect to be facing many? I rarely see any these days. Plus, the mage needs them in his/her front arc to shoot. You could always factor that into your battleplans. A turn with the mage's unit facing away from the main battlelines is a turn of safety for other units from direct damage or magic missile (or conventional shooting) from that whole unit.


One of the reasons I run Dark and the familiar. Blowing all of their light units up and stopping their shooting is part of my MSU style.

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Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:25 pm
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My slight issue with this is the range thing - I have enough problems keeping my shades in range: particularly when my opponent is playing aggressively. With corsairs, it seems like the very short range would mean it would become easy to get outranged very easily, particularly if your enemy is swift moving on their flanks...

Anyway, I like others would be interested in hearing whether this experiment worked or not :)

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Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:42 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Unfortunately I didn't get to play tonight, I'm not sure when I'll get a chance, November is busy as hell.

As for the being outranged question. How the hell do you get outranged with a 24" range shades?

My tactic will be the same as my Dark Riders, get around the flanks (Corsairs might have to take an extra turn), stick 1" beside or behind enemy unit, and keep shooting.

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:52 am
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i used this unit a bit about a year ago, and it isnt bad at all. i used it first as a defensive role, to clear a flank from enemy fast units rather than to try and run up and shoot the enemy main force, and they work great for this. they can take a charge from most fast cavalry/flyers/scouts and they can charge and kill them in return, or simply trade shots. No fast cav (except outriders possibly) can win a shooting battle against these guys. Once they have cleared the field of fast units, they can make a support charge for an extra rank (the front rank) in the steadfast count and some extra damage and CR. As you say, they are very cheap, and cheap units are rarely not worth to take.

I dont really know why i dont use them any longer tbh...

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Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:02 am
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Dalamar wrote:
Unfortunately I didn't get to play tonight, I'm not sure when I'll get a chance, November is busy as hell.

As for the being outranged question. How the hell do you get outranged with a 24" range shades?

My tactic will be the same as my Dark Riders, get around the flanks (Corsairs might have to take an extra turn), stick 1" beside or behind enemy unit, and keep shooting.
So how have they been working out, Dal?

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Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:15 pm
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I wish I could tell you. November is the worst month for me as far as free time goes...

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7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:40 am
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Heh. :) Well, let me know when you do. I've had such dreadful luck with all my core lately against WoC, OK and VC that I'm seriously considering dropping all mine for disruption/sacrificial units.

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Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:55 am
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The problem is Handbows don't have AP.

I personally still prefer a unit of 5 DR instead, mainly due to their mobility.

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Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:55 am
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