Sorceress on Dragon?
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
- Mindrazored
- Shade
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:18 am
Sorceress on Dragon?
So i was looking on the GW site when I saw that in the plastic Dreadlord on Dragon you could make a sorceress? Would this be a good idea? Or does it waste the points spent on the Dragon?
My Druchii: 5/0/6
Im A Proud Member of the League of Extrordinary Druchii Gentleman
Im A Proud Member of the League of Extrordinary Druchii Gentleman
This was made specifically for Storm of Magic.
Only sorceresses can go on fulcrums, but they can go with their mounts. For these scnarios, that's an exceptional advantage.
For the usual games, there are some ways to make a sorceress fit for combat.
PoK protects her rather well.
She can actually take magic weapons.
Dark Magic allows her to increase her wounds to 6 and regrow them.
Overall, it is not a classic combo but it seems to be actually playable.
Probably better in an avoidance list based on Peggymasters, DR, harpies, shades+star sass, hydras.
Only sorceresses can go on fulcrums, but they can go with their mounts. For these scnarios, that's an exceptional advantage.
For the usual games, there are some ways to make a sorceress fit for combat.
PoK protects her rather well.
She can actually take magic weapons.
Dark Magic allows her to increase her wounds to 6 and regrow them.
Overall, it is not a classic combo but it seems to be actually playable.
Probably better in an avoidance list based on Peggymasters, DR, harpies, shades+star sass, hydras.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
Never thought about running a combat level 4 with the PoK.
PoK, Crown of Command and the black dragon egg or a dispel scroll.
2 Breath weapons in combat, T6 for 1 round, Stubborn, Reverse ward save and 4+ wounds?
Sounds like a combat winner or a really good speed bump that is extraordinarily hard to kill. She will also be able to cast out of close combat with most of her spells (just not magic missiles unless you give her the focus familiar).
Word of pain your opponent and then go to town.
PoK, Crown of Command and the black dragon egg or a dispel scroll.
2 Breath weapons in combat, T6 for 1 round, Stubborn, Reverse ward save and 4+ wounds?
Sounds like a combat winner or a really good speed bump that is extraordinarily hard to kill. She will also be able to cast out of close combat with most of her spells (just not magic missiles unless you give her the focus familiar).
Word of pain your opponent and then go to town.
Dalamar wrote:RAW, yes. But it's slapworthy.
- Mindrazored
- Shade
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:18 am
Ive always wanted to run a unkillable Dreadlord and a Lvl 4, and this might be the day I get to do that! I dont think Ill be able to run her in under 3k points though. I can just proxy the Dragon as a Pegasus no big deal >: D
My Druchii: 5/0/6
Im A Proud Member of the League of Extrordinary Druchii Gentleman
Im A Proud Member of the League of Extrordinary Druchii Gentleman
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
I use level 4 on a dragon with Dark Magic quite a bit and I have to say it's working very well.
1. It's points denial, at 600+ points, your opponent has to kill both the dragon and the sorceress to get any of them... at this points she's probably also your general so that's another 100 points
2. On a pegasus, she's not much of a combat threat to anything, even some war machines could bog her down (dwarven especially). On a dragon, she slaughters all support units she encounters. Dragons don't break units tailored for combat by themselves anymore, regardless of who's sitting on top.
3. She provides fast, maneouvreable ranged and combat support. Never send her into combat by herself... but if your combat unit is fighting enemy, nobody will look a gift dragon in the rear of that enemy in the mouth.
4. Even though she's large and bulky and hard to hide, unless your opponent plays the boring dwarf gunline, there won't be enough machines to kill the dragon in one turn (barring extremely lucky shots) and one turn is all they should have before becoming dragon snacks. Ranged units? Well, they'd have to turn to face you and you did land the dragon in such a place that it would expose their rear/flanks right?
5. Suddenly gives enemy a target other than hydras to shoot at, making your hydras that much more likely to get to do their job.
Here's what a dragon sorceress would do on turn 2 in a perfect scenario:
Charge warmachine A
Cast Bladewind on warmachine B (only two requirements being target in line of sight and not in combat... you can cast it FROM combat)
Cast Soul Stealer on a nearby enemy infantry block or Black Horror on high armor unit in range.
Cause panic in your opponent as he suddenly ran out of ways to deal with your flying monster
People pay too much attention to units "getting their value back in points". Keep in mind that by the rulebook, you don't need that many victory points to win a game (your experience/local group may vary) and keeping over 700 points alive can mean a difference between win and loss just by itself. At the same time you're not just hiding your sorceress, she's back there sowing chaos, destroying support and making sure enemy combat units plain suck (Word of Pain).
edit:
Why not a Dreadlord you say? Combat powerhouse on a combat powerhouse? Well, here's why - 8th edition units really strengthened units in terms of not running away. Last thing you want to happen is your dragon get bogged down, flanked and chased off (and yes, my dragon has been chased off by gnoblars in the past because he stayed in combat with ogres (1 wound short to take off steadfast) for a turn too long. And while your expensive combat lord is flying around the battlefield looking for an opportinity... A Supreme Sorceress is blasting enemies to pieces from the back of her dragon.
1. It's points denial, at 600+ points, your opponent has to kill both the dragon and the sorceress to get any of them... at this points she's probably also your general so that's another 100 points
2. On a pegasus, she's not much of a combat threat to anything, even some war machines could bog her down (dwarven especially). On a dragon, she slaughters all support units she encounters. Dragons don't break units tailored for combat by themselves anymore, regardless of who's sitting on top.
3. She provides fast, maneouvreable ranged and combat support. Never send her into combat by herself... but if your combat unit is fighting enemy, nobody will look a gift dragon in the rear of that enemy in the mouth.
4. Even though she's large and bulky and hard to hide, unless your opponent plays the boring dwarf gunline, there won't be enough machines to kill the dragon in one turn (barring extremely lucky shots) and one turn is all they should have before becoming dragon snacks. Ranged units? Well, they'd have to turn to face you and you did land the dragon in such a place that it would expose their rear/flanks right?
5. Suddenly gives enemy a target other than hydras to shoot at, making your hydras that much more likely to get to do their job.
Here's what a dragon sorceress would do on turn 2 in a perfect scenario:
Charge warmachine A
Cast Bladewind on warmachine B (only two requirements being target in line of sight and not in combat... you can cast it FROM combat)
Cast Soul Stealer on a nearby enemy infantry block or Black Horror on high armor unit in range.
Cause panic in your opponent as he suddenly ran out of ways to deal with your flying monster
People pay too much attention to units "getting their value back in points". Keep in mind that by the rulebook, you don't need that many victory points to win a game (your experience/local group may vary) and keeping over 700 points alive can mean a difference between win and loss just by itself. At the same time you're not just hiding your sorceress, she's back there sowing chaos, destroying support and making sure enemy combat units plain suck (Word of Pain).
edit:
Why not a Dreadlord you say? Combat powerhouse on a combat powerhouse? Well, here's why - 8th edition units really strengthened units in terms of not running away. Last thing you want to happen is your dragon get bogged down, flanked and chased off (and yes, my dragon has been chased off by gnoblars in the past because he stayed in combat with ogres (1 wound short to take off steadfast) for a turn too long. And while your expensive combat lord is flying around the battlefield looking for an opportinity... A Supreme Sorceress is blasting enemies to pieces from the back of her dragon.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
I run the following and it normally works quite well:
Lvl 4 Supreme Sorceress
Dark Magic
Whip of Agony, PoK, Black Dragon
The Whip of Agony actually makes the sorceress reasonably effective in combat, two attacks at S5 with armour piercing and hatred isn't to be sniffed at and also has the advantage of being unlikely to kill an enemy hero in a challenge leaving the dragon free to rack up overkill. Finally if you wish there is another 40 points of magic items to play with, the Other Tricksters shard has worked for me in the past.
Lvl 4 Supreme Sorceress
Dark Magic
Whip of Agony, PoK, Black Dragon
The Whip of Agony actually makes the sorceress reasonably effective in combat, two attacks at S5 with armour piercing and hatred isn't to be sniffed at and also has the advantage of being unlikely to kill an enemy hero in a challenge leaving the dragon free to rack up overkill. Finally if you wish there is another 40 points of magic items to play with, the Other Tricksters shard has worked for me in the past.
WIP First War Against Chaos Expansion
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t= ... e7da5c4719
WS3 / S3 / T3 / D4 / I5
Skills: Basic Stealth
Items: Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t= ... e7da5c4719
WS3 / S3 / T3 / D4 / I5
Skills: Basic Stealth
Items: Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
I completely agree with the Whip of Agony for sorceress on a dragon.
While Black Dragon egg is a cool toy, it's one use only, not only that, you announce to your opponent that you will be using it sometime during the turn at the beginning of the turn... Allowing your opponent to change his mind about charging, or shooting at your dragon... or worse, fleeing from combat he normally wouldn't flee from and leaving your dragon stranded.
While Black Dragon egg is a cool toy, it's one use only, not only that, you announce to your opponent that you will be using it sometime during the turn at the beginning of the turn... Allowing your opponent to change his mind about charging, or shooting at your dragon... or worse, fleeing from combat he normally wouldn't flee from and leaving your dragon stranded.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Has anyone given any thought to some of the weaker items in our book (e.g. web of shadows or hydras teeth). The web is one use only and slightly worse than the dragon's egg (costs more and does 2D6 S3 versus a single model only, rather than 2D6 S4 against multiple models) but it has the advantage of being declarable during close combat itself, not the start of the turn (avoiding you wasting it when your enemy doesn't charge you after you declare it or when you fail your own charge). The hydra's teeth could be a nice countercharge defence (used as a stand and shoot reaction), for whittling down enemy fast troops or for popping solo characters. As the hydras teeth is an enchanted item, she could be given a magic weapon as well.
Probably not a good idea, but some food for thought?
Probably not a good idea, but some food for thought?
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."
Don't be a munchkin?
I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
Don't be a munchkin?
I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
- Dyvim tvar
- Lord of the Dragon Caves
- Posts: 8372
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm
- Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
- Contact:
I have been intrigued by this idea but have not put it into play. If I did, I would definitely use the Black Dragon egg. Breath weapons can nuke big infantry blocks, and being able to do it twice per game rather than once is a huge benefit. You won't kill the unit, but you can do so many casualties that the enemy unit becomes ineffective can be cleaned up in combat either by the dragon itself or by one of your combat units.
Truly These are the End Times ...
- Demetrius
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:36 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Red- Anything that can be killed by the Hydra's Teeth will be mauled by the dragon, surely
I am tempted to give the Sorceress on Dragon a go at a tournament... 2400 is standard, so she will be limited to POK and Tome of Furion (weighing in at 590 points), but she should do well if i can keep her alive
I am tempted to give the Sorceress on Dragon a go at a tournament... 2400 is standard, so she will be limited to POK and Tome of Furion (weighing in at 590 points), but she should do well if i can keep her alive