SoS: Dark Elf Wardancers?

[T.D.]

Bring your Sisters,
Bring your Sisters,
to the Slaughter!
Let them Go!
Let them Go!
Let them Go!

The Sisters of Slaughter have generally not being given a great reception so far, both in terms of models and games rules.

But I like them; concept, model and in game rules. Whether I can get the in game part go from "like" to "will get them to work", is another matter entirely - and so this is my untested MSU Tactica.

Dark Elf Wardancers

What came to mind when I first read the fluff for the Sisters of Slaughter, was 'Dark Elf Wardancers'...especially as they have a "Dance of Death"

So I intend to play them in the same way as I would play Wood Elf Wardancers.
- expendable MSU counterchargers

Coming Up:
- Reactive Strategy - "Guardians of Slaughter"
- Proactive Strategies - "The Sweeper/Quarterback" & "Tag Team"

[T.D.]

"Guardians of Slaughter"

The Reactive Strategy I have in mind for the SoS is guarding my backfield in a missile/magic heavy list by threatening countercharges against enemy units attempting to engage said valuable backfield;

i.e. S/SS in a bunker of RxB and Reaper Batteries

Deployments:

Ambush

- SoS 5x2, muso

The Sisters are shielded from the enemy by scenery, facing in such a way as to threaten to charge or flank charge enemy units attempting to engage the valuable backfield.

Rationale
The SoS charge or threaten countercharges on enemy units attempting to engage the backfield
Weak units can be destroyed
V.Strong units can be held up due to combination of flank + combat ability + -3CR
Best case: enemy elite held in place until support hammers arrive
Less good but still OK case: enemy elite speedbumped or redirected, giving backfield another turn or two of magic/shooting


Reserve

- SoS 5x2, muso

If no suitable scenery cover is available, the Sisters are deployed 5x2 behind the RxB unit containing the Sorceress, which is run as wide as possible.

Rationale
When danger (i.e. enemy horde) threatens the SS can move back into the SoS.
The RxB reform and Sisters swift reform + advance to create a small battleline or the RxB take the charge and then combat reform to 5 wide - if they hold then the SoS charge in subsequent turns (unless they want to try and run away!). Sorceress placed on extreme of strung out SoS if the manouevre is possible (so horde cannot attack her)
Ideal outcome: Steadfast denial from RxB, kills and survivability from the SoS, -3CR (SoS Anvil); enemy destroyed or held until support arrives.
Less good but still OK outcome: RxB fold immediately and the enemy follows up onto the SoS, but they don't break giving the Sorceress another turn to stay alive/cast.

[T.D.]

"The Sweeper/Quarterback"

The first proactive strategy I have in mind for the girls is inspired by the late Roman and Byzantine Legions.

These armies fielded their best troops as reservists at the back of the field. The reason had to do with many factors, some not represented in the game of Warhammer;
- softening the enemy first by skirmishers and then by progressive waves of increasingly battle-hardened and heavier infantry.
- tiredness and damage to the enemy vs the freshness of the elites when they did eventually take the field.
- if the battle was going badly, the elites held the battle line together allowing an orderly withdrawal of the entire legion rather than a devastating rout.

Such a rarified role is quite fitting for our Rare Sisters of Slaughter

Reservist Special Elite Infantry

In this approach a unit (or multiple) of SoS are fielded 6x2 at the centre behind the main battleline, in a conventional setup with strong central combat blocks and two rapid wings.

They function like a "Sweeper" in football or Quarterback in American football - plugging (sweeper) or exploiting (quarterback) gaps in the line.

Tactics vary depending on the opponents moves and the ebb and flow of the battle:

Sweeper

Sisters patrol backfield behind main combat blocks.
If enemy gets through on wings Sisters engage to protect main combat blocks against flank or rear charges
Weak units are destroyed, strong units can be held up (elite CC + -3CR)

Quarterback

If enemy shooting is neutralised, sisters push up to join in with the main battleline, either on one of the wings or through any gaps that have appeared as the main blocks manouevre and line up for preferred charges.

The SoS Anvil

Ideal combination vs an enemy horde is a DE horde of (Corsairs or Spears/Swords or RxB) run 10 x 3/4:
- DE Horde pre-emptively reforms to 5 wide and sisters push up to join alongside
or DE Horde receives charge, (hopefully!) holds and combat reforms to 5 wide, sisters charge next turn;
Steadfast removal by 5 x 6 DE light infantry + CC ability, -3CR from Sisters = the SoS Anvil
best case: enemy broken
good case: enemy pinned long enough for Witches, Execs or cavalry to sweep round and destroy.

Hold the Line
If an obvious point of weakness develops in the main battleline (such as Warriors vs Skullcrushers/Dragonlord, etc);
Sisters wait behind for inevitable collapse and/or overrun. Sisters are now either in, or ready to charge into, combat (safest place) with enemy elite (preferred opponent), preventing the Skullcrushers/Dragonlord, etc from immediately turning around and hitting your key blocks (i.e. Execs, Witches/CoB) with a rear charge on top of whatever engagement they are already in.


Rationale
- Protecting SoS from shooting and target priority
- Making use of their stickiness (combat ability, -3CR)
- Staying close to own battlelines increases proximity to magic, and COB/Shrine boosts and synergies
- characters can be parachuted into the SoS

[T.D.]

"Tag Team"

The second proactive strategy is again inspired by the late Roman and Byzantine Legions.

In this case it was their screening of elite infantry by missile-bearing skirmishers or light infantry.

This strategy, rather than supporting a conventional horded battleline, is aimed to integrate with a more conventional MSU build featuring multiple small and dangerous units, although it can still be used on one or both wings of a more conventional army list.

Tag Team

- SoS, 5x2, muso
- RHB Corsairs/RxB, 10x1, muso

In this approach a unit of SoS are fielded 5x2 behind a unit of 10x1 RHB Corsairs or RxB.

RHB Corsairs and RxB have the advantages over other units for forming such a combination as:
- cheaper than SoS, yet better protected against missile fire than SoS
- missile units so preferrably placed in front rather than behind other units early in the game
- 5x2 allows them to shoot and/or receive charges as well as 10x1

Multiple combinations of such "Tag Teams" can be employed as best fits the rest of your MSU build.

- RHB/RxB screen SoS early game before swift reforming to allow the SoS to push up.

-> Can be played defensively or offensively.


Rationale
- Protecting SoS from shooting.
- Keeping the SoS close to a complementary unit (shooting vs h-t-h)
- You can cast buffs i.e. Mindrazor on either one of these little units for fun
- characters can jump between the two
- just a small part of a larger MSU Army list and overarching strategy of your development

[Ming]

I have a similar vision of SoS.
They definitely resemble their wood dancer cousins in shape and abilites.
I have always envied wardancers coolness.
So, even if I think the unit is weird and expensive, I am eager to try it.
Your idea is very interesting, and next week I'll field them in my first 8th ed druchii game as tag team with 10x1 RHB corsairs
Thx for sharing your thoughts.

[Clockwork]

Love the last diagram there TD!

A really useful guide.

[T.D.]

@ Ming

Cool
You will probably get to try them out before me in that case!
Glad you liked & let us know how it goes.

@ Clockwork

Thanks!
I have to say though that it is still theory hammer at this stage. Tricky maneouvering is easier on paper than in game!
But I'm looking forward to trying some of these out & I hope you will feedback on your own results with the Sisters

[Vampire1812]

This is great! Awesome pointers for us non tactical n00bs to follow. One caveat I would add is to keep them alive you must play super aggressive I think. Of course of you are playing DE you should already know this.

[T.D.]

@ Vampire

Your join date is well before mine...which surely makes me the noob in this case?
Things tend to go tits up for my Darkies when not employed aggressively, so I agree there. I'm looking forward to trying out builds with Reaper Batteries in combination with Flaming RXB and Sorceresses though
One thing I've noticed about small units (such as 6x2 Witches), is the opponent tends to weigh the "juicier" targets such as big blocks, characters and war machines more heavily...and consequently underestimates them. Especially if they are not obvious targets in line of sight.

[Dalamar]

Is it just me or it feels like Sisters should be skirmishers?

[Vampire1812]

@ T.D.
Join date means very little on the internet I like WHFB but I am not good at WHFB.

Is it just me or it feels like Sisters should be skirmishers?

That with the option of going 5+ and I bet people would be loving on them.

[Trax]

Well, even either skirmishers *or* 5+ unit size would make them appear way more often in my armies, I guess.

[MangoPunch]

This is awesome! Thanks for putting it together.

FYI though: In the "Reservist" option, Sisters are like Fullbacks or Halfbacks in American Football, not Quarterbacks.

[Clockwork]

@ T.D.
Join date means very little on the internet I like WHFB but I am not good at WHFB.

Is it just me or it feels like Sisters should be skirmishers?

That with the option of going 5+ and I bet people would be loving on them.

It's already a constant source of amazement that they aren't Wardancers. 5+ and Skirmish would just rub salt in the poor Asrai's wounds.

[T.D.]

This is awesome! Thanks for putting it together.

Cheers man.

I'm particularly looking forward to trying out the combination of the vanilla horde (RxB, Warriors, Corsairs + optional Sac dag sorceress) with the Sisters.

- 10 wide early on to mirror the enemies horde and screen the Sisters, then reforming five wide for the Sisters to push up.
-> Dual engagement for Steadfast denial and -3CR, whilst moving Sorceress out of harms way

FYI though: In the "Reservist" option, Sisters are like Fullbacks or Halfbacks in American Football, not Quarterbacks.

Rumbled as a Non-American! I thought Quarterbacks could fake the pass and make a run through the gaps themselves? That backfield option of strategic overview and penetration (ooo er) was what I was trying to suggest.


In regards to the skirmish and 5 models option suggestions, I think the ten models minimum is to stop everyone from employing lot of little units to debuff the enemies entire line! -1 to shooting from Skirmish would help them a lot, but I think the developers wanted to make them very compatible with the Bloodwrack Shrine and Cauldron of Blood, hence ability to make use of rank bonuses. The fact that they debuff ranks while keeping their own bonuses is one of their main positives.

I would like to have seen them with Strider (and ideally the ability to vault over friendly troops as Wardancers used to be able to do), in order to bring the agility the fluff suggests to life...

[MangoPunch]

FYI though: In the "Reservist" option, Sisters are like Fullbacks or Halfbacks in American Football, not Quarterbacks.

Rumbled as a Non-American! I thought Quarterbacks could fake the pass and make a run through the gaps themselves? That backfield option of strategic overview and penetration (ooo er) was what I was trying to suggest.

In pro football QBs do run sometimes, but it's usually if 1) it is "QB sneak" where the offense needs 1 or so yards and the whole line pushes forward and that's all they get, or 2) the play completely fell apart and there happens to be an oppening in the line (and then they slide and don't engage). A fullback's job is to create holes (or take the ball quick and exploit them) and a halfback exploits holes, runs sweeps or takes short passes; both protect the backfield. QB running is more viable in college than pro football, but I think these are pro tactics you are pushing.

-----------------------------------------------

I like your horde --> deep block idea, SoS are basically a minimum 3 CR swing ( minimum bc they are killy) which is devastating if you can deny steadfast.

[T.D.]

John Madden on the Sega Megadrive (Genesis) tactics

[Fallenturtle]

Out of curiosity, would you ever run the sisters more than 10 models?

[Dalamar]

No, if I had the points I'd run a second unit of 10

[marcopollo]

It is too bad that they don't come in at 5+ models per unit. Then I would take a few torpedo blocks to pinch into a combat like a chariot.

I suppose a close competitor for points would be a CoC in many of the examples given above. Also, that -3CR is only for fully ranked "busses". By the time big hordes get to the backfield, they may or may not be fully ranked, and so SoS are less optimal.

Impact CR results from a chariot are similar to -3CR from SoS. But, with a chariot, those impact hit kill models and impact steadfast more than a potential -3CR that does not implicitly kill models.

[T.D.]

Out of curiosity, would you ever run the sisters more than 10 models?

I go for 12 in the proactive build:

i.e.

EH EH EH EH EH EH EH EH EH EH
Sp Sp Sp Sp Sp So So So So So So
Sp Sp Sp Sp Sp So So So So So So
Sp Sp Sp Sp Sp


EH = enemy horde models (10 x 3)
Sp = Spearman model (representing 5 x 5)
So = Sisters (6 x 2) -> to maximise attacks against the horde when combined with the Spear unit.


Otherwise, like Dalamar, a second unit of 10-12 would be my next option.

Larger units, plus COB/BW Shrine, etc I haven't really thought through properly yet (or got close to playtesting! ). The fact that the COB and BW Shrine can fill out units to larger sizes - as well as their ability to move between units - is very promising for MSU/MMU play...

[T.D.]

I suppose a close competitor for points would be a CoC in many of the examples given above. Also, that -3CR is only for fully ranked "busses". By the time big hordes get to the backfield, they may or may not be fully ranked, and so SoS are less optimal.

This is a good point. Chariots can be used in place of the SoS in all the examples above. They are more durable than the girls (outside CC especially) and have impact hits as you've said.

Personally, I like Chariots for reactive setups, and with the nerf to our monsters they are looking more and more like a very good component for any Dark Elf list. In the case of the proactive strategies above though, the lack of march is a hindrance.

In favour of the Sisters for the roles I have in mind:
- characters can join
- characters can be protected from CC by reforming wide
- no stupidity
- can add (as well as remove) rank bonuses, take standards, have musician

It would be interesting to see the mathhammer of Chariots vs Sisters.. *drops hint to Daeron and Calisson* ( )

[Dalamar]

If the target is hard to kill, sisters will be better. It's a guaranteed cancellation of rank bonus. Sometimes chariot charge fluffs completely and doesn't contribute, sometimes the chariot gets broken.

I think sisters are simply more reliable.

[Ming]

I'll soon be fielding 10 SoS with champ and muso. I'm wondering if their parry save can stack with their 4plus Ward save.
They should be 6AS, 6 parry save and 3plus ward save in hth? Right?

[Gerner]

I'll soon be fielding 10 SoS with champ and muso. I'm wondering if their parry save can stack with their 4plus Ward save.
They should be 6AS, 6 parry save and 3plus ward save in hth? Right?

No? 6+ AS and a 4+ Ward save.