Druchii.net

not sure about this (i'm a newbie)... but the witch elves have no armor saves? would that make them susceptible to archer fire? if the dice rolls of your opponent are good, wouldn't that whittle them down quite a bit and cause panic?

Witch Elves are frenzied until beaten in combat and thus immune to panic from shooting.

ohh i see... thanks!

A tourney win for MSU!

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=11598

Ummm.... Having read big parts (but not all) of this thread I am starting to understand what MSU is and stands for, as well as starting to like it but more leaning towards a MSU hybrid currently...

Anyways next to the MSU abrev, I have seen the MSE abrev as well a few times... What does that stand for?

MSE - multiple small elites basically maxing out on spec and rare choices - still MSU but more emphasis on these choices.

oh yea, almost forgot. thanks malekithu, for posting this. it has helped me (a newbie) select a druchii army with a lot more purpose.

Right I see... thanks! Not much difference thus qua playing.

Like the idea, also have made some of that kind of armies, just not so consentrated. Lot of help for me, thx man...

I would like to add how well the lore of shadows could help this army, think of the 8" ekstra charge range, and the noble or what you use flying out lone against warmachine crew and wizards, quite effective. Just looked the spells over, and found out how well they fit. The steed for mages, meaning that dispel shouldnt be a problem after first or second turn, The Creeping death to help boltthrowers a bit with knights, just love no as. Pelt of midnight means that at least one unit is not going to be whiped by shooting. Unseen Lurker and you get the 8" extra charge, and pit slowing and damaging the larger units, leaving them behind the rest of the line, and opening a flank for charge. Dont think the Shade of death will fit to well, but still, fearcausing DR, or fearcausing boltthrowers, that helps against some of the flying monsters charge =)

Also, fought of adding a cauldron in the army, a lot of attacks, rerolls on first turn of cc, meaning greater chance that the opponents wont strike back, and even run

This is what im gonna use in my next turnement, just love your idea man

I use the Cauldron and the Lore of Shadow a hell of a lot to enhance this strategy and you are quite correct, it really does work

mind-boggling. i hadn't even considered this option. still, i think you'd have a a hard time against, say, one elite unit with smaller ones guarding it on either side.

The idea to deal with that would be to make sure that one big elite unit does not get into combat (by avoiding it) as well as hampering its mobility (getting unit behind it) while you roll up his small units one by one (preferably from the flanks as for avoiding the big unit using his small units as a kind of screen to prevent it from charging)

Well this is just general theory and I guess its easier said than done. Really depends on what army you are facing, what units you got and what that big elite unit is.

One elite unit can be a problem IF faced head on. Smash the flanking units with WEs, corsairs, chariots etc while ensuring you have a unit that is able to threaten the large unit thus pinning it in place. DRs work well for this as you can shoot him turn after turn and back off easily. Let's face it - if the elite unit is all that is left of your enemy you will have probably won the game.

As noted MSU is theory but so many are now practicing it that it is now a very valid tactical concept. Use it how you will and enjoy. One of the strengths of MSU is that you can use more types of units then you would otherwise be able thus having specialists for almost any situation ana, possibly best of all, filed all those great models from the DE range!

Have fun.

What about Black Guard? Could they be a good choice for an MSU list with the Cauldron?

Also, how can you get an army to come to you when they know what the Cauldron does and they see your whole army snuggled up to it?

and to all ... never underestimate crossbowmen as flankers. If yo let the have a try at it, they will not disapoint you.[/quote]

I have used this tactic in defensive DE armies and found it quite effective. A small unit of 10, no command, sent into the flank of an enemy engaging your Spearelves often swung the battle for me. I think it's mainly because no-one expects missile units to voluntarily get into combat and so tend to ignore them.

Fair play matey, its an entertaining way of using units and developing tactics for your army, its always annoying when your fielding 20 elf strong units and you only have 3-4 of them when you can almost make double figures with this use of an army. The only thing i'd add is that aside from winning i'm also proud of what I see in an army. What I mean is that for example, I play DoW aswell as DE. When you see 200 pikemen ranked up fully painted with heavy cavalry on the flanks, war machines in the rear your duelists guarding the flanks with what other units you may have aswell. The sight is awe inspiring, it looks superb, somthing to be proud of, its what makes all that time and effort painting, filing, gluing, basing and what else you have to do to make it look that good. Thats what I get out of the hobby and it works with my DE, nice large units, It just looks so good, and thats one reason why i'll continue to use my large sized regiments, because it looks good:), but still you've got some cracking ideas matey.

the_vicar wrote:Fair play matey, its an entertaining way of using units and developing tactics for your army, its always annoying when your fielding 20 elf strong units and you only have 3-4 of them when you can almost make double figures with this use of an army. The only thing i'd add is that aside from winning i'm also proud of what I see in an army. What I mean is that for example, I play DoW aswell as DE. When you see 200 pikemen ranked up fully painted with heavy cavalry on the flanks, war machines in the rear your duelists guarding the flanks with what other units you may have aswell. The sight is awe inspiring, it looks superb, somthing to be proud of, its what makes all that time and effort painting, filing, gluing, basing and what else you have to do to make it look that good. Thats what I get out of the hobby and it works with my DE, nice large units, It just looks so good, and thats one reason why i'll continue to use my large sized regiments, because it looks good:), but still you've got some cracking ideas matey.

Fair enough vicar. Whatever you are happiest with. Think about pulling MSU out just to surprise a regular opponent.

Could you possibly show us a sample army list using MSU. What is "MSU" anyway?
Altogether it was a very well put together post. Thanks for the tips.

Angel of Fury wrote:Could you possibly show us a sample army list using MSU. What is "MSU" anyway?
Altogether it was a very well put together post. Thanks for the tips.

Have a look in the army lists forum. There are several good examples there.

Wow ... I always knew WFB had all the good generals ... and 40k was just a lot of (extremely fun) sillyness ...

I'm trying to get into 6th ed, I used to play the mish-mash undead of old ... the lack of decent models meant I turned to 40k, but with all these new models ...

I was wondering would the tactic of having very small squads, so effectively min/max be counted as cheese? Being a 40k player often it is unsporting to take minimum squads with weapons load outs. Perhaps in WFB it works differently, as it amy be seen as an disadvantage in having less ranks, but as you have pointed out it would be more efficient to have more front line troops.

Please clear up any misconceptions/faults I have ...

I like how you've themed the tactics to cater for an Elite force ... what flaws (examples in game) can you forsee?

EDIT: I am a 40k player ...

OK, just read the whole damn thread, very impressive, VERY.

Also I don't think its a cheesy tactic as it is very much in he elven character (particularly dark) to do something like this.

I whole heartedly agree with licanus, the fluff of the druchii supports these min/maxing tactics. But as a new comer to this sight who has just read this whole thread and subsequentially been "wowed" by it, I might add that the strategy requires a very competent player who is able to utilize troops well in-game. D.Elves don't lend themselves to players who rely on old school tactics of charge and conquer.

I myself have been quietly collecting WHFB for the past year now, but due to location am away from a gaming center/group(i haven't yet played a single battle! )

Druchii are my primary race of course, but due to no battle experience I've gone and bought models that don't agree with this tactic and I'm wondering what the general word is on large amounts of C.One Knights? Do they work or do I absolutely need DR's?

Well, A good general always help, but the troops, or opponent might also do the trick. As i played msu (only one game) i found dark riders very effective, played agains a kornate army, so it isnt hard to get the opponent to charge. i was generaly having harpies stopping his marche move in the center, and forced the Knights to come forward, killing em with exes. COK are not good to the darkriders role, they cost to much, and i think that fast Cav is very importend to the list. so importend that i used them insteed of boltthrowers (i wanted COB and BG, so no room for RBT anyway), opening your opponents lines always helps.

If i was you, i would take your COK, and say that they counted as DRs, maybe leaving a unit of 5 for flank charges, then you can see how well they do, and decide if you want to buy some

Whta great thread!.......Malekithau, you have convinced me to try this out with my chaos army (incidently alot of it picked up of you!).....Slaaneshi daemons and beasts.....lots of fast and manouevrable units.......i think i can make it work with them.........

Morgy!

Good to see you here, mate. How did you like using the Slaaneshi daemons? Bit different to dwarfs aren't they? Did you have any trouble matching my apint scheme?

Incidentally I've been doing some work on a dwarf MSU force. Looks interesting.

I've also looked at Slaaneshi MSU and think it would work a treat especially with the mounted daemonettes.

See you at Dogcon We'll have a beer.

John O