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D.NET INVASION 2015 - CHAT THREAD 
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Chief Cultist
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This thread is for specific chat on
D.NET INVASION 2015 - ARMY PAINTING CHALLENGE.


You may view entries on this thread http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=76269

Feel free to post any progress photos, discuss themes, army selection or anything that takes your fancy on the invasion event here.

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:30 am
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Well registered. Hopefully this will be the kickstart I need.

Also changed to a 'Sticky' so it can be found easily as the months progress.

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:16 am
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This looks good !

I have two more suggestions

1. More possible awards per month so not only the best painters have a chance to aim for the best. I suggest

- Best painting job
- Most productive (most points finished)
- Best conversion job
- Best general

This motivates the members to not only paint the best (as most of us are not golden demon painters) but then show off with being productive and creative with conversions. Painting is in my eyes not the only building aspect of making your army. Trying to win all the awards will be very challenging but that is where this competition is for, to challenge the Druchii.net members :)

Then the last suggestion, best general, is to link fielding the (unfinished) army with the painting progress. So we can really make it an D.net Invasion, as our armies will be send to defeat all others for the glory of D.net. Painting while gaming with the Invasion armies will develop the motivation even more I think. Imagine we are able to even organize an real life D.net tournament with our Invasion armies, which other warhammer online community can beat that ? But we are Druchii, so the best of all.

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:18 am
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1. More possible awards per month so not only the best painters have a chance to aim for the best. I suggest

- Best painting job
- Most productive (most points finished)
- Best conversion job
- Best general


Good points LD - perhaps we give these an honourable mention in a summary each month. Logistically it's quite hard to run a poll on several items. Also I am reluctant to give away to many special title rewards. I think acknowledgement in the top post each month would work well.

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:26 am
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Yes acknowledgements will do ! Voting for those can be done like we did with three best and worst units some time ago.

For example
Lord Drakon

1 = Best Painter
2 = Best Output
3 = Best Conversion
4 = Best General

1. Lion of Flanders
2. T.D
3. Rowena and Marchosias
4. Omnichron

So we have an top 3 in four 'honours' every month, 12 acknowledgements in total based on most votes done in the decribed order

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:05 am
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If I may continue on that idea of using different polls/month:
- Best painting job is more or less equivalent to that month's winner.
- Most productive is a flat calculation and doesn't need a poll. The points value can be added to the submission.
- The best conversion and best general is an interesting one, but I would propose keeping those polls at the end of the entire competition. Otherwise you might have months with 1 conversion/general and months with plenty of them.
This would make it more balanced and easier logistically I think :)
Or perhaps we could work with themed months.

As for the competition itself.... I'm less encouraged with the new format. The original concept had a 2.4K list over a year. The nifty part was that it required a playable list, balanced around a large point size, and there was a commitment to the list. Every model's value is more or less predefined by the list and the pace as well as the order in which the painting is done is flexible (with gaming being used as a motivator).
The new competition strives for 1.5K over 6 months, so it's shorter but higher paced and there's no list attached to it. However my list in indivisable. I can't make a smaller version of my list as it relies heavily on some combinations which simply can't be squeezed in 1.5K. I can make a different list, but then I would probably pick different models which is detrimental to getting my Khaine models painted. I simply prefer different units at that size and I don't feel the Khaine theme I enjoy at 2.4K works in smaller games: it introduces too many weaknesses too easily exploited in my meta. It's problematic, in fact, so much that I can't even enjoy such a theme against my regular opponents.

It also presents the 250 points/month target, but how rigid is this? How well does that represent the value of models?
How many points is a Sorceress, for example? Are there any rules for this?
If I just paint a Sorceress, is it a suitable candidate for a monthly poll and how is a level 2 sorc evaluated compared to a level 4?

I confess the 250 pts/mo target throws me off balance :P I tend to focus on a single unit or goal, rather than points. I tend to miss my target dates regularly as well, heck.. I'm cursed with dreaming, social life and procrastination. I didn't succeed in finishing my spearmen in December but I sure did paint me some spearmen!
Targets work well for me as a motivator. They don't function well as actual deadlines for me, since Warhammer is too low on my life's priority list (in spite of my big love for it). It also cuts things in portions that don't work for me. It might take me a month and a half to finish my witches, but if I break it up in smaller sets to achieve a monthly goal, it would take me 2 months... maybe 3 because I won't risk the next commitment when I feel I need a break of a few days or have a backlog to complete. How rigid are the rules here? I can't submit unfinished witches into a poll, I presume, but can I submit the previous month's commitment in the next month's poll? What if that means I fail to reach one month's commitment, but then end up with 400 points in the next month, flattening competition who kept a steady pace at 250 points per month?

I could take my DR and Warlocks as example. I'm tempted to magnetize the torsos to make it easier for transport or to switch DR's to Locks and back. I need 10 DRs and 10 Locks for my 2.4K list, but I might prefer to paint 20 horses first, then 20 DR torsos, then 20 Lock torsos. The monthly target would make such an approach more difficult. If I split into 2x10, mounts and torsos included, then I'd be far less encouraged to complete all 20 DR torsos and all 20 Lock torsos.

I have a converted-scratch-built BWS in mind, but even though it will take more effort than 20 horses, it will be worth only 175 points... Not enough for 1 month's commitment though it is more than a month's work.

I was very tempted with the previous competition. The format of the new competition tends to work well as I've seen it on several boards. It tends to work best/fairest with clear set and rigid rules, but then those kinds of rules don't work so well for me based on my previous experiences :(
I tried to paint 10 Corsairs at a time and I got fatigued of them on the second batch. However, painting 30 spearmen in a row was a blast because I kept getting that entire unit as a motivator.

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:59 am
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Daeron wrote:
It also presents the 250 points/month target, but how rigid is this? How well does that represent the value of models?
How many points is a Sorceress, for example? Are there any rules for this?
If I just paint a Sorceress, is it a suitable candidate for a monthly poll and how is a level 2 sorc evaluated compared to a level 4?

I confess the 250 pts/mo target throws me off balance :P ...
How rigid are the rules here? I can't submit unfinished witches into a poll, I presume, but can I submit the previous month's commitment in the next month's poll? What if that means I fail to reach one month's commitment, but then end up with 400 points in the next month, flattening competition who kept a steady pace at 250 points per month?

I could take my DR and Warlocks as example. I'm tempted to magnetize the torsos to make it easier for transport or to switch DR's to Locks and back. I need 10 DRs and 10 Locks for my 2.4K list, but I might prefer to paint 20 horses first, then 20 DR torsos, then 20 Lock torsos. The monthly target would make such an approach more difficult. If I split into 2x10, mounts and torsos included, then I'd be far less encouraged to complete all 20 DR torsos and all 20 Lock torsos.

I have a converted-scratch-built BWS in mind, but even though it will take more effort than 20 horses, it will be worth only 175 points... Not enough for 1 month's commitment though it is more than a month's work.



Just a quick +1 on this question! I've got 12 Shades to paint this month (~200 pts depending on options), but then will go over other months. I'd also like to paint mounts together in batches, meaning I might have lots of horses, wolves and cold ones, but no riders. Would this kind of thing be flexible under the project banner (just ruling you out of winning prizes, but still able to take part), or is that the kind of thing we should keep in our normal PLOG's and only jump into this if we're good to up the work/completion rate?

No worries either way, of course. Just keen to check!

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:31 pm
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I do somewhat agree with Daeron's points, especially regarding comparitive points values and the effort involved, for instance in the first couple of months I will be working on over 1,000 pts in the form of heroes, and then start working through the smaller units.

But I do understand why the concept is as announced, as this gives a nominal target to achieve.

Perhaps there is a compromise that could be met, for instance 250 pts worth of rank and file units, or a big showpiece item such as a Monster, Shrine etc that may not by themselves meet the threshold but require an equal amount of effort to rank and file. This then helps solve the concern about the effort vs pts cost.

I will still be going for the originally stated 2,400 sized army over 12 months, but using the 250pts as a guide for progress over the first 6 months. This will rule me out from the 'Best General' award in some cases, as there is no way I would be using a Dragonlord at 1,500 points, so will not be playing with all of my submitted models/units until I am in a position to field a higher points value.

There will never be a one size fits all competition, and perhaps for those of us aiming for a bigger army, we can extend onwards through the second half of the year, if it goes well.

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:52 pm
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As the old thread has been locked just after I posted there, I'll copy my post into this thread:
I'd like to join... if allowed, for my entry will be a bit different.
As not all of us shiz gold like Tywin does, I have had to choose between starting a Bretonnia army or a Dark Elf army. I went for the Bretonnian army so as to give me some more variation and a new gaming experience.
Now, the interesting part is that, while Bretonnian by rules, my army will consist of half elves, men who claim to have elven ancestors. The army will have a very dark look, using the Targaryen color scheme of dark red, black and dark metal.
Even though the army officially isn't Dark Elf, I still think that, in an event which encourages fluff, my army would have enough in common with Dark Elves to enter.

Please tell me what you guys think


Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:35 pm
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Ohhhh.. One more question. Is Januari the first month with pledges already or do we get started on Feb? :)

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:22 pm
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Yeah I'd like to join to it's the perfect start up for me to get back into Warhammer, not sure I'd like the format as most armies seem to be bigger than whats proposed here. Also I am away from home until mid February, so in order for me to join up i'd either be off by a month or have less than 10 days to do my entry and thats before buying the stuff I need as well as receiving it in the mail.

Don't get me wrong, the idea (both actually) is great, but it leaves so much more to be possible. I wish it would have been announced earlier.

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:30 pm
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I'm very tempted, but knowing my normal speed of painting is more like 500 points per year and I haven't painted anything at all since summer. But then, it's clear I really need motivation. So I'll see. :)
Just a few questions: How much points would heroes count as? What happens if I don't make the deadline at the end of the month? And does the result have to be a legal working army?

Also,
Lord Drakon wrote:
3 = Best Conversion
3. Rowena and Marchosias

:oops: :oops: :oops: !

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:31 pm
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Lord Drakon wrote:
2 = Best Output

2. T.D


I've got single models waiting to be finished...

...that I started on over 20 years ago! :oops: :P :mrgreen:

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Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:14 pm
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Maybe I'm too late but I just decided to check out your forum and saw this painting event. And I love it! I have a painting commission and hardly ever paint my own things but this year I have decided to get my Dark Elves GT ready. Am I too late to enter this or was the entry time extended?


Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:56 am
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Chief Cultist
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Quote:
I'm less encouraged with the new format. The original concept had a 2.4K list over a year.


I was aiming at something for a shorter duration hopefully to entice more members to contribute - once the 6 months / 1500pts was done I was thinking we would do a call for reinforcements and continue on in the same vain for another 1000pts/1500pts - giving members the option to further their army or perhaps start a new one again.

I think the less restrictions we place on this the better a simple points cap is the easiest way (you can choose if you want a quiet month and just paint a Lord or have a busy month and paint a unit) the motivation of this is to get units painted at a reasonable pace.

Do we start Jan or Feb? - I think this depends on how much we want to discuss the requirements first? Personally I think lets just get into it and start it now, but if more members would like to consider the options for a while first and revise the requirements we can defer to a Feb start.

I don't see this comp/event as a competition Army list building exercise - more as an opportunity to get paint on models - perhaps one of the other mods could pick up on this and we have another thread that looks at the army list building side of this - TD, Amboadine?

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Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:18 am
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Oh by the way - welcome to Unleashed Wargaming thanks for joining the forum! Looking forward to seeing your work :D

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Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:20 am
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Cultofkhaine wrote:
I don't see this comp/event as a competition Army list building exercise - more as an opportunity to get paint on models - perhaps one of the other mods could pick up on this and we have another thread that looks at the army list building side of this - TD, Amboadine?


Already working on a Tactical based competition for next month, so may be able to integrate.

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Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:14 am
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Cultofkhaine wrote:
Oh by the way - welcome to Unleashed Wargaming thanks for joining the forum! Looking forward to seeing your work :D


Thanks! I'm enjoying what I see so far. Crazy enough I started a Dark Elf army in the beginning of January and started work on it. This year's goal is to have them ready for use in GT's by 2016. I don't understand everything I've read so far about this entry thing but I will do my best to keep up and get my submissions in each month. I love the idea and know that it will keep me motivated. I paint full time so I hardly ever get to work on my own models but this will surely force me to make some time. Thanks again!


Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:07 pm
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Great idea to motivate painting models for the glory of Witch King. I wish You all good luck and I want to see many great models painted. I myself won't joining because my painting speed isn't fast enough, but I will watching Your progress and comment.

regards
KreoL

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Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:36 pm
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I think I'll try a balance between both systems then. I'll paint units each month, focusing on models I need for mu list, but not restricted to the list. So I can paint a big unit of Shades though I need only a handful.

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Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:49 pm
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Wow, in light of Darnok's, from Warseer, bombshell today this thread could be the last of its type. The nightmare scenario predicts the Oldworld becoming bubbles, no really :sick: , the introduction of fantasy marines, and to top it off nicely all current models are invalid. Scarey Times not End Times.

Nothing surprises me these days with GW, so I'm not laughing this off too quickly. :killed:


Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:04 pm
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Darkmark wrote:
Wow, in light of Darnok's, from Warseer, bombshell today this thread could be the last of its type. The nightmare scenario predicts the Oldworld becoming bubbles, no really :sick: , the introduction of fantasy marines, and to top it off nicely all current models are invalid. Scarey Times not End Times.

Nothing surprises me these days with GW, so I'm not laughing this off too quickly. :killed:


Not so sure this would mean the end of these types of thread. There will still be factions and they didn't state all models would be invalidated. Some may but this could purely mean they are going to stop making 3 types of spear elves and just make 1.

Anyway I opened a thread for discussion on that particular subject, so this one is not derailed.

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Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:31 pm
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Amboadine wrote:
Darkmark wrote:
...this thread could be the last of its type.


Not so sure this would mean the end of these types of thread. There will still be factions...


I'd go even further than that - the "theme" component of people's submissions to this thread if anything proves there's an appetite to create/tweak/dream our own fluff and aesthetics, irrespective of what GW says is going on. If the future they force through isn't to people's liking, I'd imagine we'd see more of these threads shaping things according to our vision of what 9th ed should look like, with GW simply providing statlines and points costs on the sidelines... If even that.

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Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:34 pm
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Something I made on January 1st. The Black Guard were already started but I didn't finish them until January 2nd and 3rd. Hope that counts!

Image

Image

Image

Image

You can see how I built it on my PLOG. Check it out, it was a fun project!


Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:27 am
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I honestly don't think it is realistic for me to paint 250+ points a month. I've not even come close to sustaining that in the past, I know I previously signed up in the other thread but I will bow out here. I can always use this thread as motivation to get my stuff done. Good luck to everyone though, look forward to see cool stuff.


Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:41 pm
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