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Beyond the End Times - What is next..... 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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T.D. wrote:
Calisson wrote:
- High consistency in closing the gap with WH40k, both in rules and in fluff. Like it or not, it is good to help gamers to swap from one to the other.


!mad!



^

This! On this, T.D. and I are of one mind. I'll go on the record right now and flatly state that I won't play a 'fantasy' version of 40K. There is a very good reason my Space Wolves are packed away in a box in the rafters of my garage and have not been exposed to sunlight for well over 4 years.


Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:20 pm
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Red... wrote:
The only humour (arguably) from the whole debacle, if it goes ahead, is that GW were able to make one final passing stab at the poor Wood elf player base, by releasing their long, long overdue book and refreshed miniature range about as close to the demolition date as they could reasonably manage. You can just imagine the folks in Nottingham splitting themselves with laughter at the poor, ignorant, and much neglected Asrai gamers who had finally believed they were getting the loving they deserved, only to have the entire game system scrapped underneath them as soon as they expended huge quantities of cash on the new book and figures.


That, and the epic trolling that they gave Bretonnian players with the hope that Warhammer: Medieval France might experience a similar renaissance.

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Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:31 pm
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Seems they are also 'trolling' us with round bases already. What a joke in the light of current rumours.

By Darnok on Warseer: http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=205550

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Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:39 pm
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Is that a photoshop?

Or a legit GW troll :lol:

Edit: Also on Warseer, a GW staff "red day" i.e. major launch for May.

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Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:57 pm
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Makiwara wrote:
At least the Asrai won the civil war Red, they gave us that at least.

"Another such victory and I shall come back to Epirus alone"

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Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:59 pm
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T.D. wrote:
Is that a photoshop?

Or a legit GW troll :lol:

Edit: Also on Warseer, a GW staff "red day" i.e. major launch for May.
That is yet to be seen. But it wouldn't be such a great joke if it wasn't by GW. :twisted: The models in the background seem to be a photo used as a backdrop, but that is still pointing at GW. I am no expert though.

Edit: Not fake, it is in White Dwarf 50 (which I have so I can confirm).

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Last edited by Aicanor on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:22 pm
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An Interesting post by Harry on Warseer:

Harry wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius4 View Post
So should we expect round bases for sure Harry? Or don't you know for sure?


I promise you fellas I don't know anything for sure.
Most of what I heard I heard a of years ago .... and pretty much lost interest in hearing anything else.

It's Oldhammer for me. (I like my 'oldfashioned' Tolkien meets Conan fantasy) ...Although I am looking forward to seeing what Bryan Ansell at the Wargames Foundry comes up with ... in the not too distant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by duffybear1988 View Post
Harry are you confirming round bases bud?


I am really not.
But ... As I said in my first post on this thread .... quoted in the first post ...
For what's its worth I think it will be round bases.
Been saying it for a while.


Wonder what Bryan Ansell will come up with? An oldhammer clone?


There has also been a new assessment of the meaning of these rumours by some of the posters on Warseer, which ties in End Times hints, round bases, the 40kish look to the new Wood Elves and Skaven, and the whole "bubble" concept = merging of 40k and FB ...like Warmahordes.

Also ties into the store rebranding of "Games Workshop" to "Warhammer".


:|

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Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:50 pm
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Gidean wrote:

This! On this, T.D. and I are of one mind. I'll go on the record right now and flatly state that I won't play a 'fantasy' version of 40K. There is a very good reason my Space Wolves are packed away in a box in the rafters of my garage and have not been exposed to sunlight for well over 4 years.


My Eldar suffered the same fate. While 40k has been adding rules back in since they hugely simplified the game back in 3rd edition, there wasn't much I've been interested in about the game since 5th ed came out (True LoS, units giving cover etc...). The way in which 40k has become all about flyer (seemingly) kept putting me off every time I looked at a game, and I've been getting the same sort of feeling towards WH with the obsession with the big super-duper kits that nearly every army gets.

If GW do pull a WarmaHordes stunt, why would I even play a GW game? Privateer Press' rules are pretty well hammered out compared to GW's in that style of wargaming.

While us veteran players may not put as much money into the game as the newbies, without at least some existing players around for the kids to notice, those kids are going to end up seeing all sorts of other games being played elsewhere...or entirely empty GW stores with a forlorn manager bored out of his mind.

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Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:07 am
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Excited to see what Ansell comes up with. Loved the first few editions of Warhammer that he wrote. It is as if he new GW might do something like this, and timed his release accordingly :)

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Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:32 am
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Rork wrote:
...those kids are going to end up seeing all sorts of other games being played elsewhere...or entirely empty GW stores with a forlorn manager bored out of his mind.


Maybe - if this happens, they will see that idea behind the 9th ed is wrong and we may be on the horse again in the 10th. :)

Even though the moment I see FB models on round bases is death of my childhood, I still hope for the best.


Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:40 am
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I cannot see them merging the two games or make compatible ala hordes/warmachine. This would add very little to 40k and i cannot see really any fantasy units surviving some sort of cross over. What is more 40k has become increasingly less compatible with warhammer since third edition 40k hit and continues to get more so with each version due to ever expanding rules and supplements etc. they have actually gobne out of their way to produce a very substandard psychic plase when they could have cloned the very workable warhammer magic mechanic from fantasy.

I personally dont mind the theme of multiple worlds or being part of a multiverse linked by the warp that appears to have been considerably expanded by the end times books. if this makes some sort of tenuous link to the 40k universe a bit more palpable then that is ok and not a million times away from what we have had before. Indeed it is something a bit more similar to one of another popular and easily recognisable fantasy universes, that of World of Warcraft. here there are multiple worlds portals and all sort of world shattering events. It may be that creating more elements that are friendly towards players of WoW might be the effect they are going with all of this. If this is the intention the heavily armed holy warrior faction/units may actually be an attempt to put the paladin/heroic warrior fantasy trope back at the heart of the fantasy might just be the thing to interest players of WoW (and possibly warmachine) where these type of warriors are actually more prominent than they generally appear in warhammer.

I still cannot get my head around these bubbles. i keep interpreting this as taking it that the world is awash in chaos and that civisation is confined to 'bubbles' meaning enclaves where the laws of reality and order have held firm. it could be that leaving one such bubbles means you have to travel through reagions of chaos to get to where you want to go and that this might mean you could easily get lost as the land scape changes around you or is un recognisable from what it was before. it still feels hokey and wrong but makes a little bit more sesne than bubbles just floating around in empty space. Still this is only a guess

I will be intereseted how the story moves on in the end times books. there is a time line in the Thanquol book which has been leaked and gives some indications of what may happen. this business about the lizardmen leaving is printed in this as the slaan embarking on their exodus, potentially potentially just means leaving all the rest of the lizardmen behind. There is a quote on this timeline of thanquol stating something like the 'some will flee to the stars and the stars will be lost, this has been cited as indication of bubbles, but iot could be that although some slaan escape to the stars, that the skaven will eventually be driven below ground again at the end of all of this. In this regard this could mean a return to something more like the status quo than we imagine.

The time line refers to the activation of some sort of great engine in skaven blight. in previous backgrounds it was the activation of such a machine that caused global earth quakes and opened the cracks up which the skaven used to spread out and infest the world. this may indicate that there will be some major change of the world map post end times which only the slaan with their geomancy really have the power to equal. It may be wishful thinking but i am hoping that this may indicate what we are looking at is a changed map not random bubbles floating around.

From the time line in Thanquol we know that the three battles at the end of it appear to be a seige of Karaz-a-Karak, the final battle of Itza and the Seige of Middenheim with Valten leading the defence against Archaon. Middenheim is interesting as this looks certain to be a replay of sorts of the storm of Chaos. We know from storm of chaos that Archaon's aim was to kill Ulric by destroying the city and extinguishing the flame, we also know previously when he was stopped the northern lands were destroyed but civilisation still held out in enclaves with the servants of chaos still running riot between them.
Neither of these options really consitute a total physical destruction of the world. If he were to kill ulric maybe Archaon would consume his power and become godlike himself, perhaps living as some kind some sort of Dark lord at middenheim and expanding the realm of chaos right into the old world (making it all a bit more dangerous and dark), but i cant see it being worse than that or indeed that actually happening.

Sorry if this has gone a bit off topic, but the more i think about it the more i think of some of the more extreme changes to the background are so insane I find it so diffcult to understand how these will come to pass so am trying to cling onto whatever signs I can that things will be different. If in 5 months my treasured fantasy war game is going to be turned upside down im going to try and distile whatever hope i can to continue enjoying it for the time being!


Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:07 pm
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In a GW store today and asked manager about base shape changes. He thought I meant changes to 40K bases, and when I corrected to WFB, he said first he'd heard, and that it would be "insane" to change them. He noted he had 45,000 pts of WFB models and rebasing would drive him mad, etc. He said they'd need to see a "converter", like a ring, but then noted that would still annoy him immensely. Seemed very genuine, honestly surprised, confused, etc.)

(Just a footnote given some negative leaning comments from me about GW above... I've only ever meant the management. One of the big improvements I've found in recent months having come back to the hobby is how great the in store staff have generally been. Lots of good, genuine people, very helpful, mostly long term fans and players. If the central team is genuinely not briefing them about forthcoming changes, well...)

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Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:56 pm
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Rork wrote:

While us veteran players may not put as much money into the game as the newbies, without at least some existing players around for the kids to notice, those kids are going to end up seeing all sorts of other games being played elsewhere...or entirely empty GW stores with a forlorn manager bored out of his mind.


Ain't that the truth. It is us old vets who have the huge painted armies that make the new kids go "Ooo....aww....Mommy...buy me some of these models for my birthday!" :lol: Mother of course looks at the half naked Witch Elves, huffs and drags little Johnny away by the ear. j/k

But yeah. I would even say we old vets spend as much as the new kids because we get bored and start new armies when new book like 8th edition Dark Elves comes out. I sold off most of my Dark Elf army while 7th was out. Since 8th, I have rebuilt it to match probably as much as most people here. I could do 4000 points without blinking. Even under old percentages.


Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:52 pm
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Jes Goodwin sculpted Bloodthirster released March is the End Times: Archaon rumour :D


Also, a post from last year by one of the main rumourmongers:

Quote:
I'm going to add to this thread, in a way that doesn't really add anything, but sadly that's the nature of rumours, no one is right or wrong if they are honestly passing on stuff they've heard, if they're just making it up on the other hand (like the fantasy allied contingent rubbish)......

Some time back in late 2010/early 2011 I was told WFB was due for a huge shakeup, it was felt that it had become almost too generic fantasy and not "warhammer" enough, and YES there was talk about cancelling it as a range altogether! However as there was still the possibility of making £ back of the plastic kits it was decided a "reboot" was for the best. Harry and I both discussed this both privately AND openly on these forums, discussing moving the timeline forward and killing off lots of characters, it looks like this is coming to pass, so here's what else I recall .....

Unpopular armies (brets I'm looking at you) would not be directly supported anymore, more likely folded into a new "good guys" type army book, so you could theoretically still run a bret army, but don't expect any new models for a long while. I seem to recall there would be 3 books, but this may actually turn out to be the end time books.

The "vision" for WFB was still to be a massed battle game, do you honestly think GW wants you to buy 1 box of troop x, y or z for a skirmish game, when they can sell 5 boxes for just 1 unit? My understanding was that WFB would change, but not to a skirmish game, it would become more "open" in so much as army composition would basically let you use your collection of WFB minis for your games. However I did hear something about round bases that fitted into square bases some time after, so take from that what you will.

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Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:12 pm
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T.D. wrote:
Jes Goodwin sculpted Bloodthirster released March is the End Times: Archaon rumour :D


Also, a post from last year by one of the main rumourmongers:

<snip>



T.D. When last year did this rumormonger say these things? I mean last year could be this past December. And Jes Goodwin? I thought he left GW?


Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:36 pm
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Not sure; you'll have to check the Warseer thread directly, but Harry and Hastings are the most reliable rumour guys on there (aside from the Mods).

Gidean wrote:
And Jes Goodwin? I thought he left GW?


Left :shock:

I hope not!

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Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:57 pm
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As far as I know he is still sculpting there.

Many of these rumours have been around from a couple of years past and have gradually become clearer and more firm up until now.

There are a number of posters on Warseer with fantastic reliability when it comes to rumour accuracy. They are all singing the same tune.

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Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:20 pm
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Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:19 pm
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Cool - so the future of the Skaven is evolution into Ogryns/Bullgryns.

Go figure.

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Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:27 am
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Actually, actually, wrooty-tooty is in favour of changing the bases. When I returned to fantasy after my hiatus I was appalled to see that infantry models were still being made for different base sizes. Perhaps round is a bit odd, but I'd rather round and uniform than square and different sizes (what a monstrous hangover from the 80s!)

!lol!


Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:52 am
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Round bases won't avoid that problem. GW puts 40k models on 25mm, 30mm, 40mm, 60mm, 90x120mm, and 25x70mm bases, which is actually more base sizes than fantasy. Why would a change from square to round fix that problem? *confused*

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Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:10 am
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well i wouldn't know about 40k, because it's garbage - i was just thinking that if they we were redoing the bases to circular then all infantry could simply be on the same diameter base, as opposed to the daft situation there is now with the 20mm/25mm square bases. maybe it doesn't bother other people but certainly does bother me!


Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:48 pm
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Well, I'll quibble with two of your points here, if I may:

1- 20mm and 25mm bases actually make a fair bit of sense. Some infantry are bigger than others, and that size should be represented not only in their height, but also their width. The notion that a hulking chaos warrior would, for example, take up the same space as a minuscule goblin is fairly silly. Gamewise, it has an important impact, in that the larger infantry suffer from disadvantages due to their size vis-a-vis smaller infantry (harder to maneuver, can get less models in base contact, etc), which plays an important limiting dynamic against lists that try to depend too heavily on large, elite infantry.

2 - How can you know that 40k is garbage if you don't know the rules / gameplay well enough to be aware of the differing base sizes? It's a game with pros and cons, and you can readily critique it (it does have many, many flaws) but it can be worth having at least a decent familiarity with the game before really rejecting it in its entirety. There are some definite positives to the game as well.

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Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:01 pm
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Red... wrote:
Well, I'll quibble with two of your points here, if I may:

1- 20mm and 25mm bases actually make a fair bit of sense. Some infantry are bigger than others, and that size should be represented not only in their height, but also their width. The notion that a hulking chaos warrior would, for example, take up the same space as a minuscule goblin is fairly silly. Gamewise, it has an important impact, in that the larger infantry suffer from disadvantages due to their size vis-a-vis smaller infantry (harder to maneuver, can get less models in base contact, etc), which plays an important limiting dynamic against lists that try to depend too heavily on large, elite infantry.

2 - How can you know that 40k is garbage if you don't know the rules / gameplay well enough to be aware of the differing base sizes? It's a game with pros and cons, and you can readily critique it (it does have many, many flaws) but it can be worth having at least a decent familiarity with the game before really rejecting it in its entirety. There are some definite positives to the game as well.



With respect to point # 1 I agree. I have found the different base sizes to be an important and tactical aspect of the game. In games I have played it has always come into play in a crucial manner during the game.

Can't comment on #2 as I have no played since....3rd?


Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:41 pm
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I think everyone seems to have overlooked how goddamn cool those stormfiends are. It almost makes me want to buy a skaven army...

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