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2,4k ETC list Draft #2 
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Shade
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:57 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Finland
Hello all,

the new draft has come out a while ago and it is being used in a tournament later this month that I am planning on attending with my dark elves. I was considering bringing the following list to the party:

Dreadlord: General, Dark Steed, Shield, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, Other Trickster’s Shard = 277
Supreme Sorceress: Dark Steed, 4th Level, Metal Magic, Ring of Hotek, Dispel Scroll = 315
Master: Battle Standard Bearer, Dark Pegasos, Lance, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation = 201
Master: Dark Pegasos, Lance, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Cloak of Twilight = 178
2 x 10 Dark Riders: Full Command, Shields, Repeater Crossbows = 2 x 230
14 Witch Elves: Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame = 194
14 Witch Elves: Full Command = 184
2 x 5 Shades: Great Weapons, Light Armours = 2 x 95
2 x 5 Harpies = 2 x 75
2 x 5 Warlocks = 2 x 125

Lords: 592
Heroes: 379
Core: 838
Special: 340
Rare: 250
Total: 2399

Currently caps out 5/5 of the ETC restrictions with 3 mounted combat characters and 2x5 warlocks. I did want to add the bolt throwers but I have no idea of how to fit them in. However the characters and warlocks appear much more powerful choice to me. In addition by dropping the light armours from shades I could easily get one more witch.

My main issue with this list is that I have no idea what lore would be best for the supreme sorceress. I currently have chosen metal since that would help a lot with dealing many of the 1+ ASV enemies which I don't really have any other solutions to. However many other lores seem quite interesting too and since I'm quite inexperienced with these "avoidance" lists I could use some pointers with this.

All other comments are welcome regarding the list. Would there be a better alternative for the witches perhaps? Or some other unit? Also even though we are playing under ETC restrictions the tournament has some special scenarios that require standards so that's why I have loaded my units with them.

Thanks!


Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:53 am
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Will you utilise 8 magic lvls? I mean, it has never worked for me. "Not enough minerals!" !lol! That's the reason why I never play more than 6 lvls in a army.


Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:33 pm
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Shade
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:57 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Finland
Hello and thanks for the comment.

That is true that 8 levels of magic will be alot and I usually am not able to utilize all of them efficiently. However I think that you can count the warlocks as being just level 2 casters as they do a lot of other things too with quite cheap price tag. Also I usually have found that their spell selection is almost superior to the SS and I tend to cast soulblight and doombolt far more often.

Maybe I could be fine with just level 2 metal sorceress with scroll. Or completely without. However this does not free up any restriction points so unfortunately I still am unable to add the bolt throwers. What do you think that I could add with the ~150-300 points given that I would change to level 2 caster or drop the sorceress completely?


Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:56 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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you have a fast army and 2 units of WE, m4 infantry.

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Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:28 am
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Shade
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Killerk wrote:
you have a fast army and 2 units of WE, m4 infantry.


Sorry, I didn't quite understand what the main point was? Yes I know the two WE units are much slower than all the cavalry and fliers and I think I would much rather run 3x10 dark riders or so as my core option. However I find it quite difficult to fit all the "filth" in with the current ETC restrictions. And after couple of warlocks and atleast two mounted characters (general+BSB) I only have one more choice to go. For this list I opted to use it for the additional master on pegasos.

After this the witches appear to me the strongest option in our book to add into the mix. I did consider some cold one knights but for some reason they just don't seem so appealing. Also with just only 2 units of dark riders I need some more points into the core selection to meet the minimum %.


Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:04 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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In that case I belive you should change your approch to list building, fiting the most powerfull choices doesent give you a wining army. To have an winning army you troop selection should be based on your plan to win, and pushing the stronges choices at your opponent is rather a poor strategy for winning. Many troop choices shoud be included to deal with opponents nastiness.
And you seem not verry concerned with what your opponents can feild.
Im a fan of art of war, and you cant think of gaining a victory, untill you can prevent your own defeat.
and just to give an example how would you deal with 2 deamon princes and a flying disc combat lord.

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Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:51 pm
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Shade
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:57 pm
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Location: Finland
Killerk wrote:
just to give an example how would you deal with 2 deamon princes and a flying disc combat lord.


Flip the table and run. :lol:

On more serious note I see your point here and I got to admit I'm a bit rusty on the dark elves as my gaming community is very limited and also I have been mostly playing lizardmen and beastmen for the better part of last year. I guess I just have to get back to the drawing board and try to think more closely on my choices here.

Thanks.


Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:15 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Agrem wrote:
Maybe I could be fine with just level 2 metal sorceress with scroll. Or completely without. However this does not free up any restriction points so unfortunately I still am unable to add the bolt throwers. What do you think that I could add with the ~150-300 points given that I would change to level 2 caster or drop the sorceress completely?


I would leave that Lvl 4 there. Having +4 on dispelling is great. What I would do is to drop one unit of Warlocks. This gives you one free choice. Now if you want to play RBTs, I think it's better to play 4 of them. Especially, when the rules are set in a way that it doesn't matter whether you have 1 or 4 RBTs. It's still one choice.

In order to have this in list, you need 280 pts. Well. One unit of Warlocks leaves you with 125 pts. If you would give away one unit of WE, that would be 125 + 184 = *Invoking Kant's intuition* 309 pts. So now you can spend these pts on 4 RBTs. You even have free 29 pts.

Now another thing. I saw, you gave your SS Ring of Hotek. Any particular reason for that? Are you going to put her into some unit? If yes, into which? Wouldn't it be better to give her Pegasus, so that she can fly around? If you would choose this path, be sure to give her The Black Talisman. MR won't work against miscasts. Ordinary ward will. Also, The Black Talisman can be fun to play. (Didn't work for me, but that's because I told my opponent about this plan. :roll: ) If your SS get charged by some hero-hunter, in best scenario without ward saves (look on our Dreadlord with Dawstone and Ogre Blade and blabla), issue a challenge. Then, receive as many wounds as you can (not that you can do a thing about this, but positive thinking is a key to successful life !lol! ) and roll for ward saves. If you roll good, you may even kill him! The other side of this coin is that you may just waste your SS. But worth the fun. :lol:

As for list building. You should choose whether you want to have fun or win the games (or both, hehe). If you go for the first option, do not mind about your M5 WE core. If you care more about the second option, consider one regiment of crossbowmen with the same banner. I think it's okay that they have the same M, because you don't want them to march all along the board, but to shoot things. The problem here would be choices. Because cca 20 crossbowmen make 40 shots, your DR make another 40 and even without RBTs that's 80+ (80 or 80+), resulting in another choice. What to do here, I don't know. Maybe drop the crossbows on DRs.

In any way, don't get discouraged. :)

Nevermind me. Exam on German Idealism is coming.


Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:54 am
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:02 pm
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Hi Agrem! Which tournament are you going? Talvisota? Havent checked but if its not full I might join too. Im Isompi Arska in Sotavasara, and I have been inactive for a little while now


As for the list, I disagree putting SS on peg. RoH in a unit is great. Im not sure if you need to put your BSB on peg, but it sure is alright either way.

Without any RBT I woukd not take flaming darkshards, s3 shot cant tickle regen monsters enough by themselves. I think that witches are alright in aviudance list, since you are in no rush to get into combat. Also you sure need some units to chew soft infantry like skaven and undead etc. But for regen countering, flaming crossbows followed by RBT fire is best way to kill those nasties safely.

Horde and armour countering will be the hardest stuff to deal with avoidance armies without strong combat units, and thats why RBT would be better choice than second warlocks, but both surely work.

Shades with gw are my favorite over ahw too, but i dont know if they work in small groups. With low amount of attack wo reroll dice can turn up bad. Your prime targets are soft anyway too..

(edit goddamn typos with phone keyboard)

In addition about lore choices, if you include RBTs to deal with armour you coukd use beasts with your SS. It would be nice since it has variety of nice spells for this list


Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:27 pm
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Shade
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:57 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Finland
Thanks for the comments.

Yes, I'm going to Talvisota -tournament and this is what the original idea was for a list. :D
I have after that tweaked the list around a bit.

The sorceress is currently mounted on a dark steed and the plan was to run her in whatever cavalry unit would best suit at the time. The Ring was there for the combined ward save for the dreadlord and herself against spells. Especially for the death snipes. But thinking back about this is that we might not see that many death wizards in the current ETC meta with the heavy restrictions on death mages. Anyhow the ring protects the unit also. The other option was to give her obsidian lodestone but with the added effect of ring with only +5 points I think the ring is much better. I'm not really that scared of miscasts with her as many of spells from metal lore can be cast with low dice count so I don't think the normal ward save is necessary.

I agree that the darkshards alone are not really good option without the bolt throwers. And on the other hand I don't think I'm ready to give up my warlocks for the bolt throwers. I think I just have to utilize the "flip the table"-tactic if I run into those double demonprince lists. !lol! Although I think the dreadlord should be able to handle atleast one prince with possible hexes (soulblight) but the chaoslord could cause big trouble.

Currently the list I was thinking of looks like this:

Dreadlord: General, Dark Steed, Shield, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, Other Trickster’s Shard = 277
Master: Battle Standard Bearer, Dark Steed, Lance, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Ring of Hotek = 171
Master: Dark Pegasos, Lance, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Cloak of Twilight = 178
Sorceress: Dark Steed, 2nd Level, Metal Magic, Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin = 175
2 x 10 Dark Riders: Full Command, Shields, Repeater Crossbows = 2 x 230
14 Witch Elves: Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame = 194
14 Witch Elves: Full Command = 184
2 x 5 Shades: Great Weapons = 2 x 90
1 Hydra: Fiery Breath = 180
2 x 5 Harpies = 2 x 75
2 x 5 Warlocks = 2 x 125

Lords: 277
Heroes: 524
Core: 838
Special: 510
Rare: 250
Total: 2399


Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:48 pm
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