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Too many choice, if, when, why, what...
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Amboadine
Miscast into the Warp
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:07 am Posts: 3510 Location: Investigating Mantica
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So as a thought from the following thread amongst others http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=158&t=76347Combined armies are a real possibility, so the question is, what makes the cuts. I believe it is fair to say that if GW combine the three Elven factions, then a number of units will become obsolete. So what I am asking is how do you believe a combined army list would look? The trick I believe is to find the balance between being able to keep all factions happy, but reducing the sheer volume of choices. Simple cuts would obviously be in Core. There is only a need for one spear choice, one missile choice (with maybe a choice of weapons) and one fast cav unit (Dark Glade Reavers). Again the heroes and Lords choices could be cut with little effort with a wider choice of mounts. I think the key to getting it right would be in Special and Rare. Do you for instance need Wardancers and Sisters of Slaughter, they could both fulfil similar roles? Same with Swordmasters and Executioners and so on. Questions then arise about Monsters and other unique entries such as Dryads and CoK's. Bit of a rambling post, but meant as a starting point to provoke discussion on how you think a combined army list could look or how you would like it to look.
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:11 pm |
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T.D.
Killed by Khorne
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm Posts: 2818 Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
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_________________ OldHammer Advanced Ruleset - Adding Tactical Depth to Your Favourite Tabletop Wargame
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:25 pm |
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Fade
Trainee Warrior
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:28 pm Posts: 25
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I agree it's a bit overwhelming at first. To make a combined army I think a good way to look at it is looking what each army does best/ differently In short and very general: Darkelves: best offensive magic and infantry and excellent characters Example: Witchelves, Executioners (although White lions might be better) and Dreadlord/Master/DeathhagHighelves: good defensive options and excellent magic Example: Phoenix guard (4+ wardsave), Silverhelms (2+ armor save), Book of Hoeth item for casters, High magic is a great lore too with their attribute Woodelves: best ranged and anti-armor/poison options. Example: Gladeguard with great arrow options, Waywatchers+Waystalker. Wildriders and Sisters of thorn have poison attacks.So I would go for a mix of offensive darkelfs, highelves for the magic caster and mage bunker (Phoenix guard) a unit of gladeguard, waywatchers+waystalker (to snipe enemy heroes/casters) as ranged support if needed Silverhelms work very well as (anti)chaff/screen/warmachine hunting for me, so I use them instead of Darkriders now Warlocks and Sister of thorn are allround amazing. I always play Warlocks, sometimes add Sisters when i find the points and want their lores. Hope that will give you some ideas. I made some more suggestions in the topic you linked to. also there is a link to a great blog post about the best of _all_ the elf armies here: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=158&t=76008
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:43 pm |
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Amboadine
Miscast into the Warp
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:07 am Posts: 3510 Location: Investigating Mantica
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@Fade
Maybe I was a little unclear on the purpose. I was opening a discussion on what a new combined elf list may look like. As the one in Khaine is overly large and not practical as a stand alone list ongoing.
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:59 pm |
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T.D.
Killed by Khorne
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm Posts: 2818 Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
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 |  |  |  | Fade wrote: I agree it's a bit overwhelming at first. To make a combined army I think a good way to look at it is looking what each army does best/ differently In short and very general: Darkelves: best offensive magic and infantry and excellent characters Example: Witchelves, Executioners (although White lions might be better) and Dreadlord/Master/DeathhagHighelves: good defensive options and excellent magic Example: Phoenix guard (4+ wardsave), Silverhelms (2+ armor save), Book of Hoeth item for casters, High magic is a great lore too with their attribute Woodelves: best ranged and anti-armor/poison options. Example: Gladeguard with great arrow options, Waywatchers+Waystalker. Wildriders and Sisters of thorn have poison attacks.So I would go for a mix of offensive darkelfs, highelves for the magic caster and mage bunker (Phoenix guard) a unit of gladeguard, waywatchers+waystalker (to snipe enemy heroes/casters) as ranged support if needed Silverhelms work very well as (anti)chaff/screen/warmachine hunting for me, so I use them instead of Darkriders now Warlocks and Sister of thorn are allround amazing. I always play Warlocks, sometimes add Sisters when i find the points and want their lores. Hope that will give you some ideas. I made some more suggestions in the topic you linked to. also there is a link to a great blog post about the best of _all_ the elf armies here: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=158&t=76008 |  |  |  |  |
Good summary. If you want, you could continue this overview here: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=158&t=76124&p=918545#p918545
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:08 pm |
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Calisson
Corsair
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm Posts: 8750 Location: Hag Graef
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One limit that many gamers forget is that magic objects are, by RAW, not accessible to combined armies. If I played a combined army, I would not take any of the AB goodies, that would already limit the choice. Otherwise, here is my summary from the Elves. Elves! Elves? thread. The assessed "best" of each category would be: Fighty charactersDE Dreadlord on dragon DE Master as BSB on pegasus WE Waystalker for sniping Spelly charactersHE archmage on any mount DE sorceress on peg Mass infantryDE WE (CORE!) WE Eternal Guard (CORE!) Elite infantryHE White Lions of Chrace +GW WE Wardancers DE BG Heavy cav/chariot/monsterHE Silver Helms (CORE!) HE Lion Chariot of Chrace DE Kharibdyss HE Frostheart Phoenix Fast cav/flyersDE DR (CORE!) DE Doomfire Warlocks HE/WE Great Eagles WE Wild Riders Scouts/shootersDE Shades WE Waywatcher WE Glade Guard (CORE!) DE RBT
_________________Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:01 pm |
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T.D.
Killed by Khorne
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm Posts: 2818 Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
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^^I've added a summary of the Eternal King list choices to the other thread.
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:14 pm |
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Fade
Trainee Warrior
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:28 pm Posts: 25
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Oke, i thought i could speed up the process by breaking it down a little. Other made great replies too i see, so no need to contribute any further  I've seen you raise this issue throughout the forum on many occasion. Although your reasoning is sound, the concept of not being able to take AB items seems against logic and fun play. Also a bit silly in my opinion. My meta hasn't even discussed this nor do i see a need to. I guess untill any official ruling i think of it as a non-issue. my 2 cents only.
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:38 pm |
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Calisson
Corsair
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm Posts: 8750 Location: Hag Graef
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No problem, fun>RAW. My own 2 cents was in reply to this thread titled "Too many choice", limiting oneself to the legal choices is one way to ease the problem. 
_________________Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:53 pm |
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Fade
Trainee Warrior
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:28 pm Posts: 25
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haha.. yes thats true  That summary of the blog post is nice. I am a bit suprised about DE BG being on the list instead of Phoenix Guard Because i feel Phoenix Gaurd bring something our most-used infantry doesn't have (good ward save). I played with them last 4 games and they were such a tough nut for my opponents (chaos and undead legions). While not being very killy, it can surely take some punishment. But very usefull list!
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Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:10 pm |
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T.D.
Killed by Khorne
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm Posts: 2818 Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
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To reply to the OP. (Despite my anger over a combined list  ) ElvesCore- Spears - Swords - Archers - Horse Archers - Light Chariot Special- Berserker Infantry - Great Weapon Infantry - Halberd Infantry - Heavy Cavalry - Heavy Chariot Rare- Phoenix - Magical Cavalry - Warshrine - Bolt Thrower - Scouts I'd imagine a stripped-down generic Elves list would look something like this. But with the amount invested in the new Dark Elves and Wood Elves, I think there would be options for "Dark" and "Wood" variant troop types. No way to tell which way they are going with this. Are the factions going to be merged into a new IP with a new aesthetic? Are they going to be combined but with expansion packs ala Space Marines? Are they going to continue onwards as separate factions and are a lot of people jumping the gun here? Who can say.
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Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:07 am |
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