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2on2 Tournament: DE and Orks 
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Corsair

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 82
Hey guys, Ill be taking part in a 2on2 tournament at my local gaming store in late March. Its standard rules and every player brings 1500p, which makes it a 3000 per side. Im bringing my Orc friend along and we would like to tinker out a strong list.

Do you guys have suggestions on what a mix of DE and Ork units? We have already done some army lists but arent quite sure yet.

I think that we will be running three blocks. Witch Elves, Savage Orks and Night Goblins. I dont run mages but have two MSU units of warlocks. I also bring some RBTs. My mate brings two Doom Diver, a Snotwagon, a lvl4 Savage Orc, 2 lvl1 Night Goblins and the usual general and bsb stuff.

As soon as I min-maxxed our lists I will share it here. So - suggestions?


Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:44 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Well. Play to each army rosters strong sides. This means: DE brings as many flying heroes and warlocks as reasonably possible, and fill the rest up with RBTs and other fast cavalry units. Orcs should bring a savage orc point-container, and as many war machines as possible :) Orcs kill opponent armor and hordes, whereas the DE heroes duel the opponents characters (hopefully winning, if you tool a combat lord! ;) )

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:19 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:45 pm
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Hey Thraundil, thanks for your reply. Here are the lists Ive come up with. We will have atleast one Arcane Ruin (that 4 channeling instead of 1 thing) so that is the reason for the channeling staff and the mages. What do you guys think?


Last edited by Cihan on Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:20 am
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I love it heaps!

Two comments.
1. Your dreadlord could swap the dragonhelm for the other tricksters shard. He truly becomes a menace for any enemy character then! However, the dragonhelm makes him safe from metal magic and several types of cannons, so I can see the argument for both builds.
2. Models allowed, I would drop the savage orc warboss entirely (the orcs are not really meant to see combat, just sit back and protect their artillery and get points with shooting and magic!). For these points, add a smaller night goblin unit with fanatics and maybe a mangler squig. Deploy in a 'castle'like formation with the savage orcs, darkshards and NG + squig protecting your war machines, and then your fast elements, DR, 'locks and pegasi, shall swoop about and collect points while the artillery rains death.

Im looking forward to the battle reports!

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:39 am
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Corsair

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 82
Thraundil wrote:
I love it heaps!


Thanks man. Im glad you like it! I value your feedback very high.

Thraundil wrote:
1. Your dreadlord could swap the dragonhelm for the other tricksters shard. He truly becomes a menace for any enemy character then! However, the dragonhelm makes him safe from metal magic and several types of cannons, so I can see the argument for both builds.


In this tournament each team can bring up to two terrain pieces. I expect most of the teams to bring a Vauls Amvil. This is why I think the Dragon Helm is an awesome item to have for a solo character and I value it over the OTS in this specific case. Would you agree?

Thraundil wrote:
2. Models allowed, I would drop the savage orc warboss entirely (the orcs are not really meant to see combat, just sit back and protect their artillery and get points with shooting and magic!). For these points, add a smaller night goblin unit with fanatics and maybe a mangler squig. Deploy in a 'castle'like formation with the savage orcs, darkshards and NG + squig protecting your war machines, and then your fast elements, DR, 'locks and pegasi, shall swoop about and collect points while the artillery rains death.


This is a tournament setting where I need to gather points as fast as I can. My losses dont really matter so much since its not about winning a single game but to get lots of points. The only exception is when Im playing against other well performing teams where it could be good to deny them tournament points - but lets not go there :)! So I'd rather have a single big combat block to outfight my opponent instead of having some night goblins doing nothing but to sit back and rely on spells.

All in all I have made a few tweaks again. I switched my lvl1 to shadow to be able to one-dice miasma. This is a incredible spell in almost every scenario. I am also thinking about getting rid of the Ogre Blade on my Dreadlord since he doesnt use his second hand for a shield or additional HW anyway. I might give him a helberd instead for +1STR and free up more than 30 points from the Ogre Blade. I could take the Channeling Staff and the OTS on my DL.

Remember that DE always are in Fragile Alliances. So relying on magic is a tough thing. I cant get more than 6 dice anyway and will have a lot less in general. This is why Im bringing an Arcane Ruin and take lots of casters for the better channeling - to pimp up my magic phase.


Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:20 pm
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Fair point on the scenery - stick with the dragonhelm on your guy ;)
However, keep the ogre blade! You might think you are wasting points on a magic weapon, but 1) ethereals and 2) the additional penalty to armor saves is massive. 3+ and 4+ is so far apart like you wouldnt believe. Instead of taking 9 swings (that wound) to kill each MC model, instead you only need 6 with the ogre blade.

Nice tournament setting for your losses to mean nothing :P
In this case I would drop the lvl 1, and convert your darkshards into witch elves :twisted: with two units of warlocks, you have plenty of stuff to spend your power dice on. I often find that barring those 10-12 PD magic phases, two doombolts is basically all you need :P

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:46 am
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Corsair

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 82
Thraundil wrote:
However, keep the ogre blade! You might think you are wasting points on a magic weapon, but 1) ethereals and 2) the additional penalty to armor saves is massive. 3+ and 4+ is so far apart like you wouldnt believe. Instead of taking 9 swings (that wound) to kill each MC model, instead you only need 6 with the ogre blade.


Well then, I guess I should stick with the Ogre Blade. He gets better at killing characters anyway with it. Im just afraid of wasting 30 points if he is up against regular targets like chaff and not so powerful regiments with T3 (remember, I got my Warlock debuff with me!).

Thraundil wrote:
Nice tournament setting for your losses to mean nothing :P
In this case I would drop the lvl 1, and convert your darkshards into witch elves :twisted: with two units of warlocks, you have plenty of stuff to spend your power dice on. I often find that barring those 10-12 PD magic phases, two doombolts is basically all you need :P


Remember that DE are always in Fragile Alliances. Meaning that I have to split up my magic dice with my teammate pretty much likely from turn 2 on. Without a lot of channels (remember the Arcane Ruins and our 6 Casters potentially 24 channeling dice) each of us doesnt have a big magic phase. Also take into account that I dont bring a lvl4, so some extra dice help with banning, too. After having this said, do you still think I should drop the lvl1? Miasma is reliably cast on 2 dice and on a 4+ with just 1 dice. While all my other spells require atleast 3 (Soul Blight) or 4 (Doom Bolt). The average magic phase (without channels) should be 3 dice. This is why I think a lvl1 with 4 extra channeling attempts is a good thing to have to beef up my magic.

The Dark Shards are just for babysitting the lvl1, bringing another standart for a scenario (the one with the break points) and possibly some extra shooting to fend off fast cav, scouts or flyers to protect the war machines.

I could swap out the Dark Shards for a slighty bigger block of Swordsmen though. I doubt that my Dark Shards will get a lot to shoot at anyway. Hmmmmm.


Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:51 pm
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Im not 100% into the alliance rules so I really cant say for sure whats the best move. If you want her in, keep her :)
But yeah, with regards to the lord: if you stick him into a big T3 infantry block, its really your own fault that you "waste" his sword ;)

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:11 am
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Corsair

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 82
Thraundil wrote:
But yeah, with regards to the lord: if you stick him into a big T3 infantry block, its really your own fault that you "waste" his sword ;)


What would your priority list for both the pegasus characters be?


Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:15 pm
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Cihan wrote:
What would your priority list for both the pegasus characters be?


This could change game on game depending on army list, deployment etc, do not go into the battle with a rigid plan, adjust as you go through the deployment phase and assess where you believe the best use will be when you deploy.
The peg characters are extremely mobile and are ideal for dealing for immediate threats such as War machines, small fast cav units, enemy characters or monsters (adjust to character load out) as earlier as possible.
They are not designed to take on blocks of infantry single handed, leave that for your own infantry and cavalry units, they also make for great support with flank and rear charges to neutralise bonuses if you have dealt with other obvious threats.

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Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:59 pm
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Corsair

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Amboadine wrote:
They are not designed to take on blocks of infantry single handed, leave that for your own infantry and cavalry units, they also make for great support with flank and rear charges to neutralise bonuses if you have dealt with other obvious threats.


Wait a second. What kind of bonus would you neutralize with a flank or rear charge? Dont you need to have a full second rank for that?


Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:58 pm
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Cihan wrote:
Amboadine wrote:
They are not designed to take on blocks of infantry single handed, leave that for your own infantry and cavalry units, they also make for great support with flank and rear charges to neutralise bonuses if you have dealt with other obvious threats.


Wait a second. What kind of bonus would you neutralize with a flank or rear charge? Dont you need to have a full second rank for that?


Yeah you dont neutralise any bonuses by flank/rear charging with peggies. But you gain the flank or rear bonus, which kind of neutralises the opponents rank bonuses if you think of it like that :P also, no combat reforms, which is always nice.

_________________
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.


Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:20 pm
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Sorry poor wording on my part there. But Thraundil states it better :)

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Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:11 pm
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Corsair

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Got it. Ogre Blade it is then. Thanks a lot for this conversation!

This would be our new draft. The changes are very subtle (in yellow), but minmaxing an army list is all about the details I guess. I removed two Dreadshards and added a standart bearer with the gleaming pennant to it. I dont expect them to see much fighting, but in case they have to take a panic test I really want to make sure they dont run off since my BSB will most likely be far away.

We decided against reducing the Savage Orcs and so we will not get a unit of Night Goblins. However, we plan on dropping the Banner of Swiftness from his BSB and think about kitting him out a different way. After all he is going to see melee and his defensive abilities arent so great. We think about both taking the ASF and the I10 sword to his orc characters.

What do you guys think?


Last edited by Cihan on Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:32 am
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Corsair

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I have yet another idea.

I could drop the Dark Pegasus on my lord and give him a Dark Steed instead. This frees up 30 points for getting a Dark Steed for my lvl1 and the channeling staff. In this case I would also drop the Dark Shards entirely and field 18 Dark Riders. These could provide a flank charge to support the Savage Orcs to negate rank bonuses and can be used as a bunker for my sorc. This way I can also use the shadow lore attribute by swapping positions from my sorc and lord.

So many small changes. Do you guys think this would be an improvement?


Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:26 pm
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I would keep what you have with the pegusi and get rid of the level 1, honestly. Between the two of you, you have 11 wizard levels! For 2D6 power dice shared between the armies, that's really, really overkill. If it were me, I would even drop one of the warlock squads (or make it one block of 10) and give the magic phase to your friend. Greenskin magic is nothing to scoff at.

Anyway, that's my two cents, but what do I know! I'm still a n00b.


Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:48 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:45 pm
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khadeorn wrote:
I would keep what you have with the pegusi and get rid of the level 1, honestly. Between the two of you, you have 11 wizard levels! For 2D6 power dice shared between the armies, that's really, really overkill. If it were me, I would even drop one of the warlock squads (or make it one block of 10) and give the magic phase to your friend. Greenskin magic is nothing to scoff at.

Anyway, that's my two cents, but what do I know! I'm still a n00b.


We cant share dice. All the dice will be evenly split! My mate cant even dispell for me. That is why we have so much magic.


Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:36 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Ah okay that makes sense why you both have magic then. Even still, if the dice are split that means you only have d6 power dice per turn? That's barely enough to get one doombolt off reliably...That sucks.


Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:44 pm
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Corsair

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khadeorn wrote:
Ah okay that makes sense why you both have magic then. Even still, if the dice are split that means you only have d6 power dice per turn? That's barely enough to get one doombolt off reliably...That sucks.


Agreed. Thus the channels. Our enemies could spam their 10dice and focus just on one of us - who wouldnt have enough dice to dispell since we have to divide dice. Being DE or Skaven sucks in 2on2 tournaments.


Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:54 pm
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