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How to defeat Lizardmen ? 
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:25 pm
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So next week I face the Lizardmen of fellow Druchii.net member DeGroteBaas known for his awesome Executioner army. I have never faced them and do not own their army book.

After the very good advice on skaven, my following question ?

How to defeat Lizardmen ? What to fear and what not ?

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Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:00 pm
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Beastmaster
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Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 pm
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the skink priests will often hold items like the dispel scroll and cub of darkness, so you could try assinating them with units of 6 harpies in a 3x3 formation. that's 9 attacks on the skink mage. can't remember what the comparative initiatives are though. but that should be enough to kill him i think! alternatively, dark riders could do it with more chance of success. and then run away!!

skinks are a total bugger - dark rider them. even if they stand and shoot you should be able to breeze through them. flying hero will help too, otherwise they'll hammer your bolt throwers.

watch out for salamanders moving in the magic phase due to a high magic spell, then teardrop flame templating all over your unprotected witch elves. that possibly happened to me once (it definitely did).


Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:37 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Skinks should not be charged lightly! They can stand and shoot, and with poison javelins and T3 on our elves, some elves will die. And the skinks get parry saves and come with a 5+ armor due to scaly skin.

What lizardmen struggle against is armour. Pegasus heroes, cold one knight units (they dont have any S4 shooting, so you retain a 2+ armor save vs skink shots!), and remember to bring a little bit of shooting of your own as well. Also, the skink hard hitters have low I, so if you can sneak in a mounted death wizard to harry the Slann and threaten with purple suns, that might do you some good!

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Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:30 pm
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Aspiring Brush Master
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Location: In my Armory, protecting my Weed.
Try a Medusa ;) Used her in a Shrine once and she toke out a Stegadon on her own xD

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Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
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Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:04 pm
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Highborn
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I play against Lizzies all the time, but have only played with them a handful of times, so my knowledge isn't as intimate as it was on skaven...

For lizzies, they usually rely on a few key units to carry them to victory: Slaan, Temple Guard, "cowboy" scar-vets, stegadons, and skinks

There are a few ways of dealing with the Slaan, but they depend on what type of slaan you are facing.
First slaan - Slaan in regular Saurus: He will be in the front rank, so the plan is fairly straightforward... Get him into combat. But do NOT underestimate his tankiness. He is a beefy boy. 5 wounds, T4, and 4++... Makes him almost impossible to bring down in one round. Now, don't just charge straight in, because if he survives, they are using his LD and rerolls on 3d6 to stick around. It is usually best to kill his supporting combat units first, then take on his bunker (which will most likely be the largest unit on their side).

Second Slaan - Slaan in Temple Guard: I won't even lie... This is a bitchh to deal with. He hides behind their scaly skirts so you can't hit him from the front, makes them stubborn ld 9 (or 10 If the give him the banner) and 3d6 cold blooded, AND reroll... They fail like 3/1000 times. So don't count on ever breaking that unit in combat. You'll have to kill it to a man. BUT, it is extremely doable. If it is a smaller unit (20 temple guard or less) simply smash a hammer or two into it. There won't be enough of them left to hit back to win a combat, and you'll clean them up the second round. I prefer witches + cauldron. If it's a larger unit (30 or more) that means he has invested a TON of points into it (700-1000 depending...) so all you need to do is AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE. Kill everything else first, because this unit is HUGE, very dangerous, and EXTREMELY slow. He is at your mercy here because if you don't want to be in combat with this unit, you really don't have to be. If you see the big unit, smile and thank him, because he will be playing the whole game with a unit that costs 1000 points, and casts 1-2 spells per turn.

Third Slaan - Ethereal Slaan - In my opinion... The most annoying of all. I honestly drool a little when I see either of the first two, just because they are so easy to deal with. But this is a different beast... Being ethereal, he will be on his own, true, but none of your missile weapons will works, and unless your opponent is a dunce, he will have a 2+ ward vs magic. However, he still fails characteristic tests all the same. Drop dwellers, pit of shades, purple sun... anything that is "test or die". Otherwise, ignore it entirely. Only go in if you have a banner, ranks, and/or a magic weapon. Even then, expect to be there a few rounds. I've had one tank my dreadlord for 3 rounds of combat.

Ultimately, slaan, while they can give an advantage in the magic phases, are scarier on paper than in a real game. Magic phases aren't reliable, and if you play your dispel dice and scroll correctly, he shouldn't ever get any spells of huge consequence off. But if you are playing end times magic? Stop the magic missiles.

Temple Guard I kinda covered earlier... They'll be at your mercy since, they are slower (both movement and initiative). Just follow my advice on the small and large blocks as I discussed earlier with Slaan. But keep in mind, they hit REALLY HARD and are REALLY TOUGH. 4+ armor in combat, and 3+ out. Cold one Knights work well, bolt throwers, execs, witches with razor banner. But make sure that there won't be many left to retaliate if you do decide to get stuck in against them.

Cowboy Scar vets? One word... Scary. If they are alone, bolt thrower them off the table. But before you single shot (which you always should to ignore the 1+ armor) make sure you shoot them with a crossbow to remove a possible charmed shield. You'll probably have to deal with a 4++ ward. But if you brought 4 bolt throwers, it won't be long. But if you let them get into combats, it will be really tough to get them to move. Anything to buff your strength or remove their armor will help. Breaking him in combat really isn't a viable option, since if you ever win, it won't be by much (since he only has 2 wounds) and he is cold-blooded. My honest opinion? Launch all your firepower here first. They are too mobile and too strong.

Skinks... What a pain (skirmishers because only fools use the other kind). However, because they are so fast and slaan is so slow, dealing with them can be REALLY easy. Often, lizard players have them outpace the LD bubble of the Slaan. They are only LD 5, but with cold blooded its basically LD 7 on normal guys. Anyways, they will usually be close to each other, so wipe out one unit and make every other unit near them panic away. They aren't worth many points, so unless they are threatening your bolt throwers, don't spend a lot of resources killing them. Magic missiles and small arms fire are the way to go. Unless he lets you charge them, then by all means. Toughness 2 sucks in combat. But don't let him bait you with them. They are only worth 7 points a dude.

Stegadons are basically chariots that don't charge very well. So don't let them get the charge off and you'll be fine. Initiative test or die is great here. Otherwise, deal with them the same way you'd deal with a chariot. But keep in mind they are stubborn. They don't have great LD, so you can break them, but don't count on that.

The only other thing I'd say watch out for is salamanders. Flame templates at S4 ruin elves. Kill them before they kill you. Kill them as you'd kill skinks.

If he's a total douche, (which he probably is since he is druchii at heart) he may run "skink cloud" which is basically an all skink list with ethereal slaan. Spread your army out over the whole field with no wholes in the line. That way he can't get behind you. Walk forwards as far as you can while holding the line. Charge and cause panic checks whenever you can. Think of yourself as a shepherd. Your goal is to push the sheep off the table edge, or into each other.

Sorry for the super long novel... But since I don't know it as well, it was harder to be more succinct. Anyways, tried to be as practical as possible. I'm sure you'll crush him. Oh, and by the way, I've been following your painting progress. I really like your army, and the conversions you've done.

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Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:42 am
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Highborn
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The harpy assassins aren't a bad idea. And the skinks are I 4 and harpies I 5

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Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:44 am
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It would depend on the list your opponent is throwing out. Against the skink swarm, which I hated paying against, large numbers of fast cav are your friend because it means you have control over movement as opposed to your opponent. If your entire army is units of 5 Dark Riders and Warlocks, with Pegasus character running around in between, he loses control of the board and double flee becomes in issue with flying characters.

With big combat blocks, throwing executioners or WE with the Cauldron will rip through them.

If it's a combination of both, try taking a combat block which does a lot of damage and fast cav. For magic I'd go with Shadow, can reduce Toughness of Temple Guard and Saurus with pit of shades to get rid of a few as well, or something like heavens or light to get rid of easy poisoned shots from skinks.

Hope that helps


Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:57 pm
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Highborn
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How did it go?

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Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:05 pm
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Highborn

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:57 pm
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As a Lizardman player, Dark Elves possess three key concepts that terrify me:

1) Mobility. You know what's faster and more maneuverable than my humble Skink Skirmisher? Dark Elf Fast Cav and Pegasus Heroes. They can go where they please and pick a weak point to blow throw in one, messy round of combat, whilst my infantry blocks are spinning in the wind.

2) Magic. Purple Sun. F*** everything about that. Morathi is a nightmare for that reason. But Soulblighting Warlocks turn already-mediocre combat units (Saurus) into utter garbage, and can cause real problems for my only real good combat units (Scar-Vets).

3) RBTs. These can ruin the day of any Scar-Vet, which is one of the only few things in the book that can usually be expected to achieve anything, and can pretty reliably decimate my Skinks, to boot.

My typical deployment is to castle up in a corner and try to pick off enough of the characters and Fast Cav before they hit me along with the infantry. This has worked once, and failed once.

Note that I haven't mentioned Dark Elf infantry as being a concern. This is because I feel Lizardmen have the right tools (Skink redirectors, Salamanders, spells like Fiery Convocation, buffed up Temple Guard) to deal with them.


Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:57 pm
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