Shooting at a mixed profile - Warmachines

[Daeron]

A question came up when fighting Duardins. A Dwarven cannon has a 4+ save and its crew has a 5+ save. We forgot the cover rule, so we were puzzled by the mixed profile and wondered how that should be resolved. Now that I re-read the rules, I see they should have gotten cover and enjoyed the same save.
Our Elves, on the other hand, do not. *blink* We can claim cover for our crew, getting a 4+ save, but not for the machine.

So! How is shooting resolved at a mixed profile?

The way I see it:
- The opponent must assign a unit to attack, but is permitted to pick a model within range to resolve the attacks on.
- Hit, wounding, saves are resolved against that model. So it's interesting to pick the model with the lowest save.
- Once damage is computed, the controlling player can choose how to assign the damage within the unit (assigning everything to 1 model until it's dead or all damage is assigned). Ideally, we'd assign the wounds to the warmachine as it can bear more wounds. Also, if the machine is destroyed, the crew is still capable to act as a fighting unit. Well, sort of.

There is but one more catch to the rules that allows some cheesy min-maxing:
"When in‘flicting damage, if you allocate a wound
to a model, you must keep on allocating
wounds to that model until either it is slain,
or no more wounds remain to be allocated."

Now this begs the question: does this rule carry over to different attacks and rounds?
For example, if one unit shoots and does 3 damage, we can assign all 3 damage points to the warmachine. If another unit shoots and does 1 damage, can we assign it to a crew member?
The rule is written within a proces flow of a single unit's attacks. It should apply within that one context, but it's not clear if it spills over to the next unit attacking.
I assume it does, but what's someone else's take on it?

[Sangfroid]

Are they not just separate units and so the shooter has to target either the crew or machine if they target crew, crew get a cover save. That would be simplest solutions

If you count as a unit they as soon as you allocate one wound to the machine all others need to be allocated to it until it's dead before you move to the crew which is a bit weird so that's why I think they are separate

[Killerk]

yea, I'd say target crew or machine.

[Daeron]

I quite agree with the choice to target either the crew or the machine. But doesn't the controlling player have the choice on where to assign the wounds within the same unit? Which essentially brings the question down to... does it count as a single unit? I think it does, but it does have 2 sets of different keywords.

[Icon hack]

I would think that you need to continue adding wounds to the same model until it is destroyed, and that would carry over. This rule looks like it is specifically written for units with multiple wound members, such as a unit of Minotaurs or Trolls. If this rule were not in place, then you could distribute damage such that a unit of 5 Trolls would be able to take 15 points of damage and all 5 models would remain to continue fighting. Even worse against Trolls who regen, you would have a terrible time killing off the unit!

[Sangfroid]

I quite agree with the choice to target either the crew or the machine. But doesn't the controlling player have the choice on where to assign the wounds within the same unit? Which essentially brings the question down to... does it count as a single unit? I think it does, but it does have 2 sets of different keywords.

I think you have answered your own question they have two profiles and two sets of keywords so are two units that mutually benefit each other.

It's almost like the cob being within an inch of the witches they benefit but are separate units.

At least that's how I'd play it.

However in any event it's always better to shoot crew first anyway because that reduces effectiveness of machine quicker which also imo backs up the separate unit thing because it's a mechanic AoS has introduced to the large heavy hitters such as monsters and warmachine and unique units (cob, stank etc...) that they reduce in peer once you chip away at them.

[Calisson]

It is clear that warmachines and crew are a single unit.

The event that the unit may contain diverse saves seems to have been overlooked by the rules indeed.
However, there is a clear rule in allocating damage:
"the player commanding the target unit allocates any wounds that are inflicted to models from the unit as they see fit (the models do not have to be within range or visible to an attacking unit).
When inflicting damage, if you allocate a wound to a model, you must keep on allocating wounds to that model until either it is slain, or no more wounds remain to be allocated."

In the unit, you have the warmachine and the crew.
As soon as the warmachine suffers a wound, it gets all following wounds until it is gone.
Before the warmachine suffers a wound, the controlling player may have crewmembers die instead.
Assuming single crew warmachine > full crew with no warmachine > warmachine with no crew,
I would imagine the best to be to sacrifice all crew but one, then the machine, then the ultimate crewmember.