Tired of GW prices? Why not try historicals?

[Gnosis]

I've been into this great hobby for nearly thirteen years now, and started out with Warhammer Fantasy back in 6th edition. A little under ten years ago I stumbled upon druchii.net and, well, the rest is history. Now, in this time I've witnessed the quality of GW's products rise tremendously, but so have the prices. Back in 2001 the brand new (and recently OOP) DE warriors set you back 25 euro (about 20£). The new boxed set has the same price, but holds 10 models instead of 16. Of course, this means that for a healthy 30ish strong unit you'll be paying 50% more these days than twelve years ago.

There's this friend of mine who's being gradually dragged towards what I'm doing in the hobby these days (more on that in a bit) but he's proved unable to resist the lure of the new DE kits. I have to admit, there's some great models in there. What I can't understand, however, is how people can still afford collecting a Warhammer or 40k army unless spread out over a year or two. I think you're looking at roughly 400£ for your average 2000 point WHFB army, am I wrong in that?

So why not try historicals, then? Those 20£ spent on 10 monopose DE warriors could instead be used to purchase an average of 40 plastic models of similar quality, usually sculpted by (ex-) GW sculptors such as Paul Hicks, the Perry twins, etc. and mastered at Renedra Plastics, a company run by the guy that set up GW's plastic moulding business and was then bought out.

Let's see what 20 quid can get you:

Instead of ten of these:


You could be getting fourty of these:

or these:

or these:


And instead of five of these:

You could be getting twelve of these:

or these:


In other words: for 400£ I could be getting 20 such boxes, giving me something in the range of 400 infantry and 120 cavalry. A massive army! But I'd probably need about a quarter to a third of that, so, with rulesets and a command model or two added in, I'll spend 150£ tops on an entire project of historicals. Plus, I get to choose a force from among the many great conflicts of history which GW shamelessly stole much of their fluff ideas from. And, as you can see, the quality of the models is on par or better than GW. And that's just the plastics - historical model makers are still working in pewter as well, and at a decent price (usually around 1.50£ per pewter model... that's still cheaper than GW's plastics).

So if you've stuck with me for the duration of this post, I'd like to encourage you to think twice the next time you're about to pick up a box of overcosted GW plastics, and consider getting a box of soldiers from whatever historic conflict you find interesting. You won't be disappointed. I rolled into it with a box of French Napoleonic infantry and I haven't really looked back since.

[Dyvim tvar]

Two reasons:

I already have lots invested in GW stuff. Costs much less to slightly expand my existing fantasy armies than start a dhole new army of historicals.

I can more easily find people to play fantasy with.

That being said, those are some really nice models.

[Gnosis]

I get your second point (I was fortunate enough to have a couple of friends who were also interested in switching over), but the second point... I don't really agree. Getting just the truly 'new' DE units (Bloodwrack Shrine + Sisters + Warlocks + Scroungerunner) to add to an existing army will set you back 125£. Of course, it does depend on what you already have and what you plan to do with your army. But you can get 120 decent plastic infantry for the price of a Bloodwrack shrine... Strange world.

[Saintofm]

Do you have a link?

Nice picks, great way to start an empire army from the ones you shown.

[Gnosis]

Do you have a link?

Nice picks, great way to start an empire army from the ones you shown.

What link would you like me to supply you with, good sir?

And yes, Empire is a rather attractive option with these models!

[Red...]

+1 Gnosis

And sadly, +1 to Dyvim Tvar: fantasy and 40k are staples and easier to find opponents for than most other games.

Worth mentioning a good middle ground, which is getting alternative minis that can substitute for GW ones - ones that look similar, without the same price tag!

[xFallenx]

I see some pretty good proxies in there for Empire & Bret's & the models themselves are top notch. From a hobbiest standpoint, they are well worth the money spent, but if you'd like to do both, or are more interested in the game, well D.T & Red have hit that issue on the head.

[Gnosis]

Well there used to be a ruleset in vogue in the nineties called DBM that was played across America and Europe and had people actually traveling between countries to attend tournaments. There's less unity these days precisely because of a serious proliferation of rulesets. There's a couple of big ones for most time periods (Warlord Games, notably) followed by some older or up-and-coming rulesets.

But therein lies the beauty of historicals: your models are not invalidated every five years. Whatever models you have can last you a lifetime as a British infantryman stays a British infantryman and will always be useful. And with the large selection of rulesets you'll probably have an easier time finding one you like than to wait for the next edition of Warhammer because you don't like random charge distances.

But yeah, if you do go ahead and try out historicals, find some likeminded fellows. Otherwise you'll have a hard time finding people to play.

[Clockwork]

For me, its not a question of getting any particular tabletop wargame. I actually really enjoy playing Warhammer. I think I would be interested in trying a historical game, but that wouldn't make me want to stop playing Warhammer (or stop investing in it).

[Gnosis]

For me, its not a question of getting any particular tabletop wargame. I actually really enjoy playing Warhammer. I think I would be interested in trying a historical game, but that wouldn't make me want to stop playing Warhammer (or stop investing in it).

I went into historicals with that mindset, but I haven't played a game of WHFB since February and it's been roughly a year since I've last played 40k. I'm just having too much fun painting historicals and playing with them.

[Kargan daemonclaw]

I've bought the Gripping beast plastics for their dark ages models. I don't think they are as detailed as the GW models. I still think they are OK for historical gaming and since many historical armies use way more figures than GW the total cost of an army isn't much different.

[Gnosis]

I've bought the Gripping beast plastics for their dark ages models. I don't think they are as detailed as the GW models. I still think they are OK for historical gaming and since many historical armies use way more figures than GW the total cost of an army isn't much different.

What detail did you miss on the Gripping Beast models? I like them quite a lot and I find it refreshing that there aren't a dozen skulls or purity seals sculpted onto historicals.

[Dyvim tvar]

Well there used to be a ruleset in vogue in the nineties called DBM that was played across America and Europe and had people actually traveling between countries to attend tournaments. There's less unity these days precisely because of a serious proliferation of rulesets. There's a couple of big ones for most time periods (Warlord Games, notably) followed by some older or up-and-coming rulesets.

If I recall correctly, DBM could be used with either 15mm or 25mm models. I actually played a couple 15mm games YEARS ago, and wasn't all that excited about the game mechanics (I don't remember what the issues were because it was so long ago). I later played some games using Warmaster Ancients rules (proxied with a Warmaster Empire army I had at the time) and I loved it. I still think that Warmaster is the best rule set GW has ever done. But finding people who play historical at 15mm scale is next to impossible.

[Gnosis]

If I recall correctly, DBM could be used with either 15mm or 25mm models. I actually played a couple 15mm games YEARS ago, and wasn't all that excited about the game mechanics (I don't remember what the issues were because it was so long ago). I later played some games using Warmaster Ancients rules (proxied with a Warmaster Empire army I had at the time) and I loved it. I still think that Warmaster is the best rule set GW has ever done. But finding people who play historical at 15mm scale is next to impossible.

It's true that 15mm has been overtaken in recent years by 6mm and 10mm on the one hand and 25-28mm on the other. Personally I like 28mm for the size and detail, and 15mm would drive me mad as I would try to paint them as 28mm but fail horribly because of the smaller detail and greater model count.

Warmaster is indeed a great ruleset - in fact, most of Warlord Games' rule systems (Black Powder for Napoleonics and American Civil War, Hail Caesar for ancients to medieval, Pike&Shotte for 16th&17th century) are derived from the Warmaster rules, which isn't surprising as Rick Priestley had a hand in these rulesets. You can play them with anything from 6mm to 54mm models. I hope you'll find some people in your area in the future so you can get some mileage out of those 15mm models!

[Ming]

Hi Gnosis,
I've been a DBM player in nineties, using 15 mm scale.
I was very happy with rules, but I was unable to find plenty of opponents, and grew tired of repeating battles between free companies and italian condotta.
I used essex and mirliton models.
I'd be interested to know the manufacturer's name of the renaissance light horsemen shown in your picture, and the foot knights' one.
They'd be a huge improvement of my dogs of war army.
Thanks

[Gnosis]

Hi Gnosis,
I've been a DBM player in nineties, using 15 mm scale.
I was very happy with rules, but I was unable to find plenty of opponents, and grew tired of repeating battles between free companies and italian condotta.
I used essex and mirliton models.
I'd be interested to know the manufacturer's name of the renaissance light horsemen shown in your picture, and the foot knights' one.
They'd be a huge improvement of my dogs of war army.
Thanks

They're both by Perry Miniatures, the knights have been out for a short while but the foot troops have yet to come out. They do have plastic light infantry as well, and they have a sizable range of metal models for the period, specifically for the Italian states: http://www.perry-miniatures.com/index.php?cPath=23_64&osCsid=85tmhi07s8ov2jhgkmpm2grno5

Check out the Carroccio, it's amazing.

[Ming]

Wow, Thank you!
Amazing sculpts, indeed.
I've ordered one box of war of the roses mounted men at arms, and one of foot mercenaries.
£. 40 for 12 knights and 40 infantrymen is really a bargain!

Next buy will be "italian mounted command", representing famous florentines militia leader Niccolò da Tolentino, portrayed in Andrea del Castagno painting, as he prepares to lead his army in the San Romano battle, and crush the Sienna troops.
Carroccio is very impressive, as well as the italian clergy, mounted and not.
I've also noticed that Polish Winged Hussars are really interchangeable with Kislev winged lancers, or Gryphon Legion.
Perry Twins style is recognizable in horses, and proportions.

[Gnosis]

Wow, Thank you!
Amazing sculpts, indeed.
I've ordered one box of war of the roses mounted men at arms, and one of foot mercenaries.
£. 40 for 12 knights and 40 infantrymen is really a bargain!

Next buy will be "italian mounted command", representing famous florentines militia leader Niccolò da Tolentino, portrayed in Andrea del Castagno painting, as he prepares to lead his army in the San Romano battle, and crush the Sienna troops.
Carroccio is very impressive, as well as the italian clergy, mounted and not.
I've also noticed that Polish Winged Hussars are really interchangeable with Kislev winged lancers, or Gryphon Legion.
Perry Twins style is recognizable in horses, and proportions.

Yup, they're a tiny bit smaller and realistically proportioned, but if you don't remove the tab on their feet then they look just fine next to GW models. I'm glad I helped you to them. You can take a look at what they're working on on their workbench pages on the site, they have some Italian crossbowmen in metal coming, and plastic light cavalry.

The Warlord Games Winged Hussars are fantastic models, by the way. Nothing wrong with picking them up, too.

[jimmy325]

With the large selection of rulesets you'll probably have an easier time finding one you like than to wait for the next edition of Warhammer because you don't like random charge distances.

[Fr0]

Eh, those would make some pretty crappy Dark Elves.
Maybe if I played Empire though, sure. Some of those models look okay and are pretty cheap.