Long live WFB!

Discuss the art of war for the Dark Elves and the inferior races that dare to oppose them here.

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Daeron
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Long live WFB!

Post by Daeron »

Greetings,

Januari's been a busy month for me, but it's almost done. So with the start of Februari, I'd like to start a few initiatives to keep WFB alive and kicking. I would like keep playing WFB 8th, in particular, but I still have a fond memory of 6th ed as well.

But before I start spamming the forum with random topics, is there anything specific you would like to read, or discuss for WFB?
What would you like to read, to keep your juices and interest in the hobby flowing?

Cheers,
Daeron
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Lord Drakon
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Lord Drakon »

Welcome back! I also just returned and looking forward to an active druchii.net again. For me it would be tactical stuff! As a relative new player I was still discovering so much when it was killed. I am sure can motivate a 8th edition battle in my area from time to time.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Vulcan »

It would be nice to see some discussion on material from the Warhammer Armies Project as well.
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Daeron
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Daeron »

Interesting point... I had forgotten to check the Warhammer Armies project. I'm surprised to see them stepping it up to 9th edition. Personally, I'd rather see them as an addition to 8th still. Perhaps they support both?
Anyhow. I would like to try a few "alternative armies" within the dark elf army, structured by theme. We could structure them by theme, city or religion. 8th ed still provides a reasonably good framework within which we can operate.


But I would also like to discuss how you experience WFB now. Are you all still playing? Do you still have a gaming group or club for it? What would you need or like to see to revitalise the game, if it needs it?
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
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van Awful
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by van Awful »

Im still trying to keep 8th going, with two of my mates. (one of whom almost missed the entire 8th edition but now is getting back in the game).
With him i'm getting ready to play the blood of sigmar campaign this weekend(my emipre vs his VC).
A nice way of some army building&painting and for him to get a better grip on the rules as they're fairly small games in the beginning.

Between the 3 of us we have about 10 armies and almost every supplement and campaign book 8th ed had to offer. So a bit of houserulling as we go but i dont see changing any time soon.
Planning our first T&T, and I really want to tryout SoM.

Besides that we are busy on creating a Mordheim city and just played the old warhammer quest last week for the first time after 15 years or so. And obviously there is always So much to paint and im hoping to get back at that on a weekly basis.

Anyhow. I would like to try a few "alternative armies" within the dark elf army, structured by theme. We could structure them by theme, city or religion. 8th ed still provides a reasonably good framework within which we can operate.


Completly agree on this, when The ET started and the Nagash book came out, i thought i finally had a way of grouping all my, over the last 16 years, differently painted dark elves, in various states of completion, in 3 seperate groups. State Troops (purple obviously), An old Har ganeth family (pale blue and black)and temple troops (green, yes green).

I even started a tale of the family being torn apart by the different allegiances the siblings have. Finally, i had some fluff to back up my armies and characters. I was even planning on naming them and what not..That was untill after Nagash everything turned out to be quite rubbish, and sucked the fun out of it. Still have the skaven and chaos book to finish but just couldnt get myself to do it.Maybe I wil some day.

Painting wise i Will keep the 3 factions and i might even finish the story. My army fluff will therefor be stuck in the early ET.

My main interests will be, painting and modeling (tips and tricks would be great) , fluff and storyteling and maybe opinions on certain houserulling. I always wanted to write a decent Battlereport with a background story.
The only time i was planning on doing that, the centre of the story was going to be my crossbowmenlordling clawing his way up the ranks battle after battle, his unit got runover by some blasted Mournfangs in the second or third turn of the first battle. So maybe ill give that another go.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Duckman5 »

Chiming in here to say 8th Ed is alive and well in my house. My friend and roommate gifted me his old Dark Elf army for Christmas and the last month all 4 of us (me, Bretonnia, Daemons of Chaos, and Orks/Goblins who basically only plays Night Gobbos/Monsters) have been in the basement modeling, painting, playing warbands and a few big games.
I'm a complete beginner to to the game and hobby so I'm just trying to suck up as much 8th Ed info as possible! I'm particularly interested in tactics vs. the above armies and painting tutorials/tips/instructions-just started in on the Cold Ones last night, trying to get a glowing from the inside effect going by washing with Hoeth Blue and dry brushing greens/blues atop that, hoping it works out.
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Daeron
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Daeron »

That's all good news. Here is what I would like to do for 8th edition (not taking into account feasability ;)):
  • I keep my tool support active and going. 8th ed and AoS are still my goto versions of Warhammer. If we find support failing for 8th edition, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
  • Create a big ass map for Naggaroth, and perhaps Ulthuan too. If I'd have the resources, the whole world, but let's start with Naggaroth
  • Topical discussions on different places of Naggaroth, trying to understand how a city or place looked and worked
  • Alternative army composition lists, following a theme: Corsair list, temple of khaine, Hag Graef, Ghrond, .... These should be tested for balance. The goal is to stick to original units as much as possible, but perhaps repurpose them. If we need to deviate, then one or two new units can be made.
  • Scenery projects, trying to recreate Naggaroth on the table.
  • Paint and build my army, which I failed for the past 10 years.
  • Try more exotic builds and constructs within the official book rules, assuming a not too competitive environment. Just how far have we explored the potential of our units?
  • Maybe write my army's lore
  • A proper Ulthuan invasion campaign. Perhaps a recreation of the Sundering?

Plenty more ideas than I have time to complete. But that also means the hobby is long from being finished for me ;)
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Darkspear »

I know it has been a long time but I want to keep the traffic going.

So, it has been 6 months, how's 8th edition coming along for you?

I have been playing AOS mostly. Didn't use dark elves much except some executioners, darkshards and cold one knights for some heavy lifting.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Omnichron »

Nice to see some of the good oldies hanging around here still!

Personally I stopped with all WHFB, skipped AoS, didn't go for 9th age, tried a bit of Warmahordes (but found the game to not be for me), and instead went for Kings of War. Finally a game which feels somewhat properly balanced, and even though it's a simplified game, it has given me a lot of fun and interesting battles. It is at least an army battle miniature game with troop movements and lots of strategies.

It'd be fun to try a bit of WHFB 8th or 6th again, but then again I am into the tournament scene of KoW too so... need to keep up with the meta and figure out new tricks to win more games! :lol:
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Calisson »

Good! It would be nice if you could tell more about your KoW experience.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Duckman5 »

Been playing a lot of 8th as my collection grows, and getting some old players back in to it. Have been soundly beaten by the Ogre Kingdoms, Lizardmen, and Bretonnia, but handed the fiendish Greenskins a devastating loss, and in an unlikely alliance with the Ogres, crushed the Vampire Counts and Daemons of Chaos. I'd say we run an 8th edition game at least once a month, often twice.
Meanwhile I'm currently working on converting some bitz bin high elf riders and horses to a unit of Dark Riders, have 10 executioners to assemble, and TONS of stuff to paint.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Lord Drakon »

Duckman5 wrote:Been playing a lot of 8th as my collection grows, and getting some old players back in to it. Have been soundly beaten by the Ogre Kingdoms, Lizardmen, and Bretonnia, but handed the fiendish Greenskins a devastating loss, and in an unlikely alliance with the Ogres, crushed the Vampire Counts and Daemons of Chaos. I'd say we run an 8th edition game at least once a month, often twice.
Meanwhile I'm currently working on converting some bitz bin high elf riders and horses to a unit of Dark Riders, have 10 executioners to assemble, and TONS of stuff to paint.



Great, I have very fond memories of 8th edition and we had lots of good options as Dark Elf, so enjoy the learning process!
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Omnichron »

@Calisson: Where to begin?!

I guess I could make a new post somewhere to give some insights to how KoW works... and maybe a battle report (as there is a campaign I'll send a report to soon).

The game itself is a lot simpler when it comes to rules, but also a lot more tactics to movements and engagements I feel. The old power lists from WHFB, with one unit to rule them all, is kinda out of the window. Although there are units which are somewhat more powerful than others, the cheese doesn't come one unit (or combination of a few elements/units), but building a complete army list with synergies between each unit and character.

Maybe I'll just make a bigger post about that in the thread I'll start with my tournament list as an example and some explanations to the stats and such.
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Calisson »

Excellent!
That is the idea, indeed.
For people like me who have little insight about what is KoW compared to WH, your testimony would be precious.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Clockwork »

Omnichron wrote:@Calisson: Where to begin?!

I guess I could make a new post somewhere to give some insights to how KoW works... and maybe a battle report (as there is a campaign I'll send a report to soon).

The game itself is a lot simpler when it comes to rules, but also a lot more tactics to movements and engagements I feel. The old power lists from WHFB, with one unit to rule them all, is kinda out of the window. Although there are units which are somewhat more powerful than others, the cheese doesn't come one unit (or combination of a few elements/units), but building a complete army list with synergies between each unit and character.

Maybe I'll just make a bigger post about that in the thread I'll start with my tournament list as an example and some explanations to the stats and such.


I would be really interested in this also.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by jtrowell »

Here is a nice Battle report of a relatively recent battle between Mantic elves and Twilight Kin (Dark elves) :
https://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot.fr/ ... t-kin.html

(the player who did this battle report has a lot of them at https://www.mantic.club/forum/kings-of- ... le-reports)

Mantic Elf list include a mix of High and wood elves (Forest spirits are part of the normal Elf list), but the elf player didn't too any forest spirit for this battle so his army is clearly of the "high elves" type


A few equivalencies to help understand the armies :

---------------
Twilight Kin
---------------

Blade dancers = witch elves (berserker unit with lots of attacks, but weak defense, the lack of armor also make them faster so more likely to strike first even against other elves)

Dark knights = heavy cavalry, compared to the elf version, they are slightly slower, but have more attacks (perfect for Cold One knights, but some players like to use dark horses)

Dragon breath = war engine with a short ranged breath attack (both TK and normal elves have access to them as well as a bolt thrower). I like to model one as a your dragon wyrmling with an elf handler

---------------
Elves
---------------

Drakon = flying drakes

In Warhammer terms the drakon units are flying monstruous cavalry
(the Isle of blood griffon make a very very good hero on drakon hero)
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Duckman5 »

I'm afraid I've fallen off a bit, other hobbies/life stuff taking precedence from WFB, but I always think about picking up the paintbrush again, and my lovely girlfriend got me a Malekith on Black Dragon model for an anniversary present! I want to field it against Brettonia and let the knights feel the hurt!
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Vulcan »

Unless you're playing 6E rules you could take anything you like in the DE book and cause major pain for the stuck-in-time Bretonnians. :?
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Duckman5 »

Vulcan wrote:Unless you're playing 6E rules you could take anything you like in the DE book and cause major pain for the stuck-in-time Bretonnians. :?

Unfortunately, I have not found this to be the case, mostly due to a lack of high STR models in my army. I once ran a bus of Witch Elves into a bus of Knights, did 17 wounds and he saved every single one with his 2+ armor save.
Since, I have purchased 10 executioners but really need 10 more to be safe; aside from that I have only 6 Cold One Knights and a Hydra (and now, Malekith on Dragon) which can overcome the Knights' armor save.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Vulcan »

You should have netted 3 kills from 17 wounds, statistically. Basing your calculations on an statistical outlier is bad tactics. After all, it's POSSIBLE to save 17 wounds on a 6+ save, after all... just not terribly likely.

Besides, witches are designed to shred low-armor targets. Barring significant buffs to Strength (or the KB cauldron buff in 7E) they really shouldn't be engaging knights, especially not head-on. They should go after his big block of peasants... which they will shred. Or you could use a Death Hag with a +STR or 'ignore armor' magic weapon. Or pony up the points for Hellebron; 7-10 S10 ASF poison attacks go through knights like a scythe through wheat.

Instead, your anti-armor troops like Executioners and Cold One Knights should go after the knights. They'll chop Bret knights into kibble.

Bretonnia's one and only advantage is in the charge, especially the combo-charge. Deny them the charge and you should win easily. Given DE's advantage in maneuver plus DE's generally cheaper AND better troops, Bretonnia should only challenge DE if there's a significant skill imbalance between the players.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Red... »

Lore of Metal + Brettonian Knights = victory for the Dark Elves. The bigger threat from Brettonia for Dark Elves are their Trebuchets and massed archery.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Duckman5 »

Vulcan wrote:Bretonnia's one and only advantage is in the charge, especially the combo-charge. Deny them the charge and you should win easily. Given DE's advantage in maneuver plus DE's generally cheaper AND better troops, Bretonnia should only challenge DE if there's a significant skill imbalance between the players.
Ha! Seems as though that may be the case; my opponent has a decade of experience on me !eek!
The real problem, I think, is I lack the high-STR troops to take on his knights at all, and all he really runs is a Treb, 1 block of archers, and several busses of knights with a couple of damsels. I need to get more anti-armor troops to take him on.
OR just take Malekith on Black Dragon and hope to god his treb doesn't crunch 510 points in the first turn !lol!
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Vulcan »

The trebuchet has it's weaknesses too, and against DE they come home to roost.

First, it's only really good against massive units. Against smaller units it looses much of it's punch. Sure, it'll decimate any unit it hits, but DE tends to run small to medium units.

Second, it's crewed by WS 2 peasants. DE chaff - even Harpies - tend to tear them apart with little effort. A Dark Pegasus master will do the same, probably without even taking a wound.

DE beats Bretonnia the same way they beat WoC - maneuver. Maneuver around his flanks, pin his attention forward, deny him the combination charge, isolate one unit, smash it from two or more sides, and repeat.

Yeah, overcoming a ten year experience deficit can be rough. Thankfully your opponent is handicapping himself using an early 6E book, with all the problems that implies, against 8E books with two or three generations of codex creep.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by van Awful »

I think, is I lack the high-STR troops to take on his knights at all, and all he really runs is a Treb, 1 block of archers, and several busses of knights with a couple of damsels. I need to get more anti-armor troops to take him on


Well, not per se.. As mentioned by the other gentlemen they are multiple ways to defeat them

If You hit him with a strength 5 or higher his blessingwardsave will become a 5+ instead of 6+.
I always liked black guards, give them the armour piercing banner and they'll hold of and maybe kill anything he throws against it.
even 2 smaller units of 14 can hold a charge long enough to flank the knights with something else.

Combined with, enough crossbows and Reapers to decimate his knights before they get to you, decent magic; Lore of metal indeed comes to mind, death maybe to snipe his damsels, life to boost your own so that even you cores are strong enough to shrug of a knightly charge or just plain old darkmagic because its lovely.

Like red said, my main concern was indeed massed archers and trebuchets when i faced them. especially in 8th edition trebuchets are quite the killing machines with with just point where you want it and hope for a hitroll and killing a pricy unit of elite elves. but just one should be easy to take care of though.
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Re: Long live WFB!

Post by Plantagenet »

Kicking this to the top. Still working on 8th edition Dark Elves and enjoying the army take shape.

Have some of the new AOS models I am working on to add a little more variety to the look of the army. Obviously no rules but can make something up when they are all done.
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