Dark Elf FAQ

[Dark Alliance]

Use this topic to discuss the new faq.

Any stupid or irrelevant posts will be deleted to maintain clarity of discussion though. As will any continual bitching or whining about something just because you "don't like it".

[Dalamar]

Just my initial thoughts:

Miscasting with leftover PoD dice.
Up till now it wasn't dangerous since all miscasts that render the caster useless also remove their power dice. Now it gets a little bit more dangerous as it should be.

Caledor's Bane.
No more discussions whether it's lance or not lance. Now it's a lance that gives +3 S, problem solved.

Malekith with Druchii Sorcery.
Not that he ever uses it, more of a typo fix there.

Heavy Armour for Lokhir
As above since he already had it in bestiary entry.

Cauldron removed by breaking the crew.
Meh, I don't really like it since it contradicts "can't be destroyed except by killing all of its crew" rule.
I do like the "no criss-crossing of crews with bolt throwers" part.

Null Talismans made clear now, as I always played them.

Same with the Ring of Hotek, but it's still tricky with some spells whether they have target or not at the time of cast. Requires lots of attention to detail while reading spell descriptions.

Bladewind.
Ok, this one is a total mess. Close Combat attacks allocated as per shooting... eh? It's actually clear, except for why call them close combat attacks in the first place then? it would be easier to make them shooting attacks with possibility of allocating single hit against characters/champions.

That's about it really. Except for the Bladewind thing I really have no objections with this FAQ (yeah, Lifetaker might seem counterintuitive but it's in line with WE ranged weapons (and they have the most of those) )

[Saithis]

i don't like the lifetaker beeing nonmagical attacks - just because it's not imballance if an army has a way to shoot magical attacks out of their magicphase.
against plenty armies it's a nice thing and especially in a nonmagical army this item is a good boost.

don't know the other books good enough - but it was surprising AND i don't see ballance issue when thinking about Str 7 stars or shades which can attack thx to a revealed assassin (having no LOS before!)...

the "ring issue" is unlogical too, this is RAW - but probably they decided to handle it that way because it's still powerful enough...

[Riker666]

The blade wind ruling makes no sense... In this way, we have a magic missile weaker than other lists with the same cost (8+, 2d6 s4)

[Silashand]

The blade wind ruling makes no sense... In this way, we have a magic missile weaker than other lists with the same cost (8+, 2d6 s4)

Not really. You have 2d6 chances to hit at S4 *and* you are allowed to allocate a small portion of them to models you might want to kill such as champions/characters. IMO this is at least as decent as normal "does 2d6 hits" spells which are typically about 7-8+ to cast as well. I personally like it as it means I can potentially take out annoying champions and maybe the occasional 2-wound hero once in a while.

About the only one of the answers I don't like is the Lifetaker not generating magical attacks. To me that makes no sense because the sole reason for such a ruling to apply to the Wood Elves is because they are the only ones with magic arrows that can be fired from non-magical bows. Pretty darn stupid IYAM.

The Cauldron isn't an issue as I don't view it as being destroyed. All an enemy would really have to do is tip it over and dump out its contents to render it useless for the duration of the battle. It's not like the DE are going to have time in the middle of a conflict to sacrifice/drain the required number of captives/slaves/whoever to re-enable it. JMO though.

Bladewind was ruled exactly as I thought it would. IMO the only reason for defining them as close combat attacks was to give it a different method of resolution than other ranged attacks. As such it is still classed as a ranged one, but the effects are calculated differently and it has a few additional benefits. Much better than ruling them as some form of "real" close combat attacks which then opens a huge can of worms as to how it works.

The Area Effect spells answer doesn't really address the issue of whether some spells like Drain Life actually target enemy models or not. In my experience in real targeting a target is whatever you are trying to kill/destroy/disable and the idea of a vamp casting DL with only a single enemy model in range actually counting as *not* targeting that model seems pretty absurd to me. Besides, there is no actual definition of what constitues a target in the BRB and according to the basic rules part of casting for every spell is to choose your target and only certain ones like Wind of Death (which target the whole battlefield) don't fit that criteria. For DL, is it targeting the caster or the entire radius of effect? As I said, in my real-world experience it would seem to be the latter. That's why bombs have blast radius' after all. Anyway, JMO and as I read that answer it does nothing at all to clear up the MR / targeting issue from the BRB FAQ.

Cheers, Gary

[Dalamar]

Wind of Undeath doesn't target everything on the table for the simple reason, that you don't know which units will be affected at the time of casting. They are affected on 4+.

Just like with Black Horror where you don't have to say beforehand where you're going to place the template.

[Silashand]

Just like with Black Horror where you don't have to say beforehand where you're going to place the template.

FYI, most long-term tournament players I've spoken to disagree with that interpretation. All spells require selecting a target as part of their basic rules and when it comes to template spells placing that template *is* considered choosing your target. The only way you arrive at your result is if you ignore the requirement to choose your target before rolling any dice.

Cheers, Gary

[Druchii77]

I wonder if the ring of hotek rulings are GW's way of appeasing the power creep issue. It is easily the strongest anitmagic item in the game and by doing this, they severely neuter its ability.

[Silashand]

I wonder if the ring of hotek rulings are GW's way of appeasing the power creep issue. It is easily the strongest anitmagic item in the game and by doing this, they severely neuter its ability.

It would not be the first time GW has used a sledgehammer in response to a single issue. IYAM the concept of actually fixing only what's broken often seems foreign to them.

Ah well.

Cheers, Gary

[Hulkster]

The ring of Hotek is not nearly as good as it used to be. I will have to rely on old fashioned magic defense now.

Bladewind ruling is silly, I can understand why they have dont it in a way, but imho, it makes the spell next to worthless.

CoB thing, I am not happy about at all. But I guess I can live with it.


The Manbane Rending stars. There is one thing I thought would be gone with the FAQ. But they actually endorsed it. Looks like I will be sticking 1 in my unit of shades now.

[Mordru]

Bladewind: I;ve been playing it this way already it just causes too many issues for no real reason. Allocate your attacks as allowed (one per champ or character) and then the rest as shooting. It may cause a few issues in the case where you are targeting a unit with less than 5 models.

Lifetaker: Senseless ruling IMO. It is now a magical crossbow that onyl inflicts magic hits if you buttstroke someone with it. I agree that the "ruling" appears to be based upon the WE FAQ but that is an apples to oranges comparison to me.

Manbane/Stars: I am surprised they let it stand.

Hags: How I have been playing it as well. It means they can challenge and slow up your chaos heros hacking the whole deal up. It also means that wounds on one don't carry over to the other, which makes them a bit more annoying. An intersting question arises again as to why they could not take 25 pts of gifts since they are they same as other hags.

PoD: I was playing it this way already. If you don't use the dice you take the hits and intentionally "throwing" them at a spell was always cheating IMO.

[Phierlihy]

The FAQ says they are identical to the Hag-champions in Witch Elf units thus they can take gifts. With three Runes of Khaine, I'm seeing 22 Hatred-filled, poisoned attacks! Ouch!!

[Hulkster]

very very nice

people really won 't want to charge the CoB anymore

[Mr. anderson]

The FAQ says they are identical to the Hag-champions in Witch Elf units thus they can take gifts

Not really. There is no mention of the word "identical" in the answer at all. It just uses the "Just like" in connection with the statement that they are treated like hags in witch elf units in terms of issuing challenges. If they could take gifts, then the cauldron entry would say so. They simply can't take any upgrades.

HUZZAH!

[Rabidnid]

The blade wind ruling makes no sense... In this way, we have a magic missile weaker than other lists with the same cost (8+, 2d6 s4)

Nope, its a very sensible ruling. War machine crews no longer line up to be killed, which was stupidly overpowered, and an oversight of the original rule, but it uses WS and close combat attacks to allocate damage. So infantry can claim their +1 save for shield and hHW if hit from the front and things like jezzails lose the benifit of pavise.

[Lakissov]

hm, actually I just realied that the hits randomized against the machine itself hit automatically (as the warmachine doesn't have any WS). So if you roll enough 6's to wound...

[Thanee]

Bladewind: I;ve been playing it this way already it just causes too many issues for no real reason. Allocate your attacks as allowed (one per champ or character) and then the rest as shooting.

The big problem I have with this...

Shooting ATTACKS are not randomised. Shooting HITS are.

So, you first roll to hit (with WS 4 against what WS exactly!?), and then you randomise (but at this point you already attacked a specific model).

Bye
Thanee

[The skaerkrow]

Shooting ATTACKS are not randomised. Shooting HITS are.

The FAQ specifically states that you're allocating the attacks, not the hits. It isn't the most elegant wording, but it's pretty obvious as to how it is played. Honestly, they should have just given us a 2D6 S4 Magic Missile (or, y'know, Dominion ). I understand what they were trying to accomplish with Bladewind, but I'm not so sure that the ends justifies the means.

[Mordru]

Bladewind: I;ve been playing it this way already it just causes too many issues for no real reason. Allocate your attacks as allowed (one per champ or character) and then the rest as shooting.

The big problem I have with this...

Shooting ATTACKS are not randomised. Shooting HITS are.

So, you first roll to hit (with WS 4 against what WS exactly!?), and then you randomise (but at this point you already attacked a specific model).

Bye
Thanee

That is why the spell is less than optimal. IME, it offers no real advantage over a good old 2d6 S4 hits magic missile other than occasionally winging a champion.

@ The SkaerKrow:

I agree completely....you have stated it well. I really miss Dominion.

[Thanee]

Yes, that's why I find the FAQ answer so weird, because it works like no other mechanic in the game now.

This whole thing doesn't work (and cannot work) like a shooting attack... they now try to 'emulate' it to some degree, wildly mixing shooting and close combat elements, and thus making the whole thing confusing in the end. Well, as said in the other thread... it's not a big deal usually (even with that partial randomisation it's great against warmachines), but just a weird way to handle that spell.

Of course, according to the general Warhammer FAQ Part II, I can allocate all close combat attacks the way I choose... so these two kinda contradict each other.

Bye
Thanee

[Saithis]

i rather have twice as many hits and deal real damage to an unit than having the chance to have one hit on a champion - so yes, 2D6 would have been better imo...
as said before (in other threads) i am no fan of druhii magic at all (because if items, special rules and spells) - so i don't care that much - won't have more than max 2 level 2 sorcs...

[Dyvim tvar]

Most of the answers ultimately make sense based on the way the rules are written.

But I have an issue with the one about Tullaris and Kouran. I realize that having to pay the cost of a champion and then the cost of the special character on top of that is consistent with the Daemons of Chaos FAQ regarding the Changeling. But it is simply not supported by the language in the Dark Elf Army Book. There is no indication at all in the army list that it should work this way.

Also, it makes two fluffy characters that were already marginal in game effect even less viable.

[Crawd]

Most of the answers ultimately make sense based on the way the rules are written.

But I have an issue with the one about Tullaris and Kouran. I realize that having to pay the cost of a champion and then the cost of the special character on top of that is consistent with the Daemons of Chaos FAQ regarding the Changeling. But it is simply not supported by the language in the Dark Elf Army Book. There is no indication at all in the army list that it should work this way.

Also, it makes two fluffy characters that were already marginal in game effect even less viable.

Reread again, I did the same mistake. You have to pay the base model than the special character cost. So it's: Model + Special Character instead of: Model + Champion cost.

[Morhen]

Well the FAQ goes just like I thought, the spanish AB didn't have errata .
The Ring of Hotek should stay like it was before
Blade Windnice test spell now give us Dominion back.
Manbane+Stars combo works, no more enemy cries about that ^^
Just one tiny thing more:

-Malus put your Sea Dragon Cloak.
-Never! I'm going to war not to walk along the park.

[Dyvim tvar]

Reread again, I did the same mistake. You have to pay the base model than the special character cost. So it's: Model + Special Character instead of: Model + Champion cost.

You're right -- I read it too quickly. I feel better about this now.