How does the Other Tricksters Shard work?

[Lorddrittz]

The Other Tricksters Shard rules look simple at first glance, but how does it actually work?

For the purposes of this post the The Other Tricksters Shard = OTS.

Under the Item description "Models in contact with the bearer (friends and foes) must re-roll successful Ward Saves."

There is no mention of it only applying to Close Combat Attacks, so it could potentially also apply to certain Magic Spells and War-machine Hits.


OTS in Close Combat

In Close Combat the FAQ states that:-
Q. Do Stomps & Thunderstomps benefit from any other special rules, equipment or Magic items? or vice versa? (p76) A. No to both questions. So Stomps don't get benefits from the OTS.

Likewise Breathe weapon Attacks in Close Combat are distributed as per shooting and therefore are not affected by the OTS .

So neither Breathe Attacks or Stomps get the benefits of the OTS.


Normal Close Combat Attacks.

Scenario 1.

Dreadlord with OTS fighting a unit of Bloodletters.

Dreadlord 20mm base in contact with 2 Bloodletters.

The Dreadlord causes 3 wounds. Because only 2 of the Bloodletters are in actual base contact then 2 of the 3 Bloodletters hit will have to re-roll their Ward Saves.

or do all 3 hits get re-rolled?


Scenario 2.

The Dreadlord on a Dark Steed with OTS fighting a unit of Bloodletters.

The Dreadlord on the Cavalry base is still only in base contact with 2 Bloodletters.

The Dreadlord causes 3 wounds. Because only 2 of the Bloodletters are in actual base contact then 2 of the 3 Bloodletters hit will have to re-roll their Ward Saves.

However the Dark Steed has a lower initiative and strikes next getting one hit. Do the Bloodletters re-roll their Ward Save vs. the horses hit?

[Flash29]

you're making a mistake with the stomps and thunderstomps, the other tricksters shard makes all models in base contact re-roll ward saves, it does not make all damage caused by your attacks to have their ward saves re-rolled. although it will rarely matter (except for deamons, phoenix guard and the like) because its divided as shooting, (so never hits a char unless the unit is small enough) and is debatable if the models are in base contact. (silly, but people will try to pull it)

you are correct about templates and spells, the effect is usually quite limited with templates (cause most models will not be in base contact).


scenario 1, all 3 because of step up, technically you can't attack a model if you are not in base to base with it. so all models attacked are in base to base contact

scenario 2

(cav base is bigger, and by max align, there should be 3 in base to base) but for the sake of I yes, again, because of step up and the fact the horse has the same base as the lord.


the main thing you have to realise is that its a continues effect, its not a magic weapon. at any time if a model is in base contact with the bearer, and has to take a wardsave, he has to reroll that wardsave (if succesfull)

so for full benifit large bases (pegasus, dragon) are good against units, as is the black guard trick.

when blackguard are 5 wide, against a 5 wide (20 mm) unit, and the towermaster is centerplace, all black guard can strike at the 3 models in base contact with the towermaster, therefore all ward saves that need to be taken by wounds from this unit need to be re-rolled if successfull

[Lorddrittz]

Ok thanks Flash29 I stand corrected on the Stomps, so they do get the benefit of the OTS if in base contact.

Your Blackguard analogy seems pretty clear cut and this would seem very useful when fighting a Phoenix Guard unit or similar (on 20mm bases) for example. Where the character with the OTS affects 3 enemy models that can be struck by all of the 5 wide BG unit.

Now for the complications. I will use the Blackguard Champion from your above example in this 3rd scenario.

Scenario 3

Unit of 20 Blackguard with champion having OTS deployed 10 wide vs. 5 wide phoenix Guard.

When rolling the attacks on the Phoenix Guard would you roll 2 lots of dice? the first lot for models able to strike the Models in base contact with the Champion carrying the OTS and the second lot for models (light blue) that can only strike Phoenix Guard not in base contact with the OTS?

I tried to represent this below where the blue Black Guard cannot attack the red Phoenix Guard (ie : the phoenix Guard affected by the OTS).

O = OTS Champion

BBBBBBBBBB
BBBBBOBBBB Blackguard = B
PG _ PPPPP _ Phoenix Guard = P

The easiest solution would seem to be roll the 6 dice represented by the Blue Blackguards attacks separately and having normal Ward Saves vs. these 6 attacks.

[Red...]

Yeah, the easiest way to do it would be to roll two sets of dice.

This is why I never run the Other Trickster's Shard though. It's a decent item, but a pain in the backside to actually resolve during a game. GW could have made it much easier by a simple tweak to make it that ward saves against all CC attacks done by the bearer have to be re-rolled, not the current base touching mush.

[Lorddrittz]

Ye I agree Red I am hesitant to take it to a Tourney due to possible arguments and hassles using it.

[Creedence]

I have a question about it myself. As it effects everyone is base to base would it have the same effect on the bearer if they had a ward save of their own? The reason I ask is, that is the way I would Interpret it myself.

[Dyvim tvar]

No. Models are not in base contact with themselves. This is covered in an FAQ somewhere ...

[Creedence]

Thanks for the quick response. I must have missed that particular FAQ then.

Regards,

[Liquidedust]

No. Models are not in base contact with themselves. This is covered in an FAQ somewhere ...

If they were you could have some very fun things going on with goblin fanatics though