Ghostly Howl

Liquidedust · Post by **Liquidedust** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:07 am

So I've came into an argument again, big suprise!

Me and my friend have a conflict regarding Ghostly Howl where he argues it is a shooting attack and therefore can be used as a stand and shoot reaction, while I argue it is a special attack that can be done in the shooting phase and therefore isn't a shooting attack hence cannot be used in a stand and shoot.

Though this could obviously be all be resolved with another ruling, since I am a fairly certain Undead cannot stand & shoot to begin with. Though I cannot find that rule reference for the life of me, and I personally do not have access to the VC book currently.

This didn't came up in-game, it was during a conversation we had for planning a gaming weekend next week.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:01 am

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ath-Shriek

Ghostly Howl: A Ghostly Howl is a special attack that can be used against a single enemy unit in the Shooting phase, even if the Tomb Banshee has marched, charged, or is engaged in close combat. This attack has a range of 8" and needs line of sight to its target. If the Tomb Banshee is engaged in combat, her Ghostly Howl can only target an enemy unit in base contact.

The wording of ghostly howl indicates initially that it is not a shooting attack. That means it cannot shoot in either the stand and shoot phase or the shooting phase without specific wording in its special rule entry to do so. The special rule wording does indeed say it can shoot in the shooting phase, so it can, however it doesn't say that it can shoot in the stand and shoot phase, so it can't.

Stonecutter · Post by **Stonecutter** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:54 pm

The recent vamp FAQ indicates that the howls are not shooting attacks as Red has pointed out since it allows them to be used in combat. In addition, the following FAQ further indicates the howls are treated differently from shooting attacks:

Q: Do items or spells that affect missile fire have any affect on a
Banshee’s Ghostly Howl? (p31)
A: No.

Since only shooting attacks can stand and shoot, then it stands to reason a howl cannot since it is not a shooting attack. However, this debate is completely unnecessary since the vamp rules on pg 26 of the book clearly indicate, "Lastly, when a unit with the Undead special rule is charged, it can only elect to hold."(last line under "Undead" section.)

Liquidedust · Post by **Liquidedust** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:56 pm

Stonecutter wrote:The recent vamp FAQ indicates that the howls are not shooting attacks as Red has pointed out since it allows them to be used in combat. In addition, the following FAQ further indicates the howls are treated differently from shooting attacks:

Q: Do items or spells that affect missile fire have any affect on a
Banshee’s Ghostly Howl? (p31)
A: No.

Since only shooting attacks can stand and shoot, then it stands to reason a howl cannot since it is not a shooting attack. However, this debate is completely unnecessary since the vamp rules on pg 26 of the book clearly indicate, "Lastly, when a unit with the Undead special rule is charged, it can only elect to hold."(last line under "Undead" section.)

Thanks, I knew I had read that somewhere prior

Gidean · Post by **Gidean** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:12 am

Nothing in the Vampire Counts book can 'stand and shoot' anyhow. The ONLY charge reaction they are allowed is to hold. Your friend should know this.

Liquidedust · Post by **Liquidedust** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:14 am

Gidean wrote:Nothing in the Vampire Counts book can 'stand and shoot' anyhow. The ONLY charge reaction they are allowed is to hold. Your friend should know this.

He's never played with them yet and bought the book the same day we discussed stuff. And we've not had a local VC player prior to this so we've never played them ourselves prior.

Lord tsunami · Post by **Lord tsunami** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:05 pm

The discussions on the VC forums have been very extensive, and their las FAQ pretty much confirms it. Ghostly Howl is NOT a shooting attack, and thus it can shoot in to CC. however, this also means it can not stand and shoot.

EDIT: oh right. and undeads can not stand and shoot anyways. nvm