Warlocks vs. Rune of Spell Breaking

[Gidean]

If your Dwarf opponent gets lucky and destroys your attempt at Soulblight or Doombolt does the whole unit lose the spell or just -that- casting Warlock (in which case you don't lose the spell at all)?

[Daeron]

I think the latter.. But it is a bit fishy considering they are wizzards with fixed spells.

[Dalamar]

The whole unit counts as a single wizard. I'd say the whole unit loses the spell.

[Calisson]

It could be argued either way.
Dw AB: "The spell is forgotten by the sorcerer."
DE AB: "If the unit is affected by a capacity that aims a sorcerer, the opponent designates one model as target."
That could lead to conclude that one model can no longer cast that spell.

However, Warlock rule says that "The unit counts as a Lvl2".
Warlocks are not multiple casters, they are a single caster (the unit) with multiple origins of casting.
If the spell is destroyed, that should be for the whole unit.

Final argument:
remember that your opponent plays Dwarfs. I'd rather lose a spell than my skull.

[Gidean]

It could be argued either way.
Dw AB: "The spell is forgotten by the sorcerer."
DE AB: "If the unit is affected by a capacity that aims a sorcerer, the opponent designates one model as target."
That could lead to conclude that one model can no longer cast that spell.

However, Warlock rule says that "The unit counts as a Lvl2".
Warlocks are not multiple casters, they are a single caster (the unit) with multiple origins of casting.
If the spell is destroyed, that should be for the whole unit.

Final argument:
remember that your opponent plays Dwarfs. I'd rather lose a spell than my skull.

Your final argument made me laugh Cal. I don't know about France but our Dwarf players don't tend towards violence.
In fact many are the OLDER players who are too lazy to stand up all game.

I think Dal is right on this. Warlocks are sort of a 'Hive Mind' by my read. I wonder how you would resolve the Ogre's Hellheart against them? Just a forced D3 wounds I would guess....

[Daeron]

Right, I've been reading into it a bit more and I'm convinced it only ever works on a single model. If that is the final model of the unit (champ?) then it would impact the unit as a whole.

What pushed me to this conclusion is the exact wording of the rune:

on a 4+, the enemy spell is lost on the wizard casting it and can not be cast by him for the rest of the game.

- Wizzard
- Casting it

DE AB pg 41, "Cursed Coven":

If the unit is targeted by a rule that affects a Wizard, your opponent must choose one Master of Warlocks or Doomfire Warlock as the target.

Compared to the Horrors which are more or less similar: Daemons of Chaos, AB, pg 38, "Magic"

Each time the unit casts a spell (or is targeted by a special rule that affects a Wizard), you must nominate one Pink Horrer in the unit as the caster (or target)...

Horrors permit you to choose, Warlocks let the enemy choose. But a single model is chosen to resolve the effect.
Another comparison is the " Sivejir's Hex Scroll " which is resolved against a single model and not the whole unit (no, you don't get a whole unit of toads however hilarious it would be). It does kill your unit's movement and fast cavalry options.

It seems Warlocks escape this one. Not that I feel they need a lot of love, but they do get this one IMO.

I asked the question at Bugman's and, of course, as any armybound forum does, they predominantly judge in their favour (which we're doing here as well I suppose )
http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/topic/435 ... ate-spell/

Is there enough cause for debate? I suppose it could be. But RAW it should only affect a single model. We could perhaps find a more interesting solution if it would improve playability... but it seems a single counter is all that is needed at this point. I don't see that improve by affecting it unit-wide.

[Daeron]

In addendum, this question didn't make it to the new FAQ for Daemons and as such shouldn't be considered canon... But the rulings for Horrors did not change dramatically and this was G.W.s FAQ answer to resolving the hex on a unit of Horrrors in the last faq before the new book:

Q:If a unit of Pink Horrors of Tzeentch is the target of a magic item or spell, such as Sivejir’s Hex Scroll or Wurrzag’s Revenge, how is this resolved? (p37)
A: The player controlling the Pink Horrors must nominate one model in the unit to be the target of the magic item or spell.

[Gidean]

Makes sense. The spell is in the mind of the caster.

[MexicanNinja]

Whether anyone here or on Bugman's, for that matter, disagree with RaW, it only effects a single model. Rune of Spellbreaking target an enemy wizard who cast the spell. Like you have pointed out, if a unit of warlocks is targeted by something that targets a wizard, it will only effect 1 model and not the unit.

[Daeron]

Well... I am convinced it will affect only one model. As for Bugman's members, in their defence, look at it from their perspective. They have a rune that targets wizards and we come with this special, weird unit that counts as a wizard. For them, that may appear like a clear deal and little arguments like 'oh but it doesn't affect us the same way' may not impress them as much.
That doesn't mean the rule can be ignored

[Dalamar]

Horrors get the same deal. And horrors can have the #6 Tzeentch spell

[Daeron]

Yeah... And 2d6 high strength hits on miscasts and the unit comes more expensive than ours. But never the less, I think the rules for both are clear in this respect.