Avert your Gaze on garrison

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Lord Drakon
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Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Lord Drakon »

When my Medusa attacks an garrisoned building, with how many models is she in base contact regarding Avert your Gaze ?
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Thraundil
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Thraundil »

I would probably say she is not in base contact with any models... She is in base contact with the building, not the enemy models.
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by marcopollo »

I would say that she is in base contact with as many as she would normally be if the building didn't exist. If she's not in base contact, then how can she even attack and be attacked.
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Praetorian1979 »

then she will fight with as many (inside) as she normally would be in contact with in an outside fight. He nominates 10 there will fight the intruders and you fight those. Keep in mind, should he choose a hero/lord. They can still be singled out to fight against.
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Calisson »

Buildings are described p.126 sq.
For "Avert Your Gaze" , read p.128, "Special attacks".
It says "For special attacks (such as stomps) and items that affect models in base contact,
a model fighting in a building is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy player..."


So the answer is: 1 model.
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Red...
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Red... »

Calisson wrote:Buildings are described p.126 sq.
For "Avert Your Gaze" , read p.128, "Special attacks".
It says "For special attacks (such as stomps) and items that affect models in base contact,
a model fighting in a building is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy player..."

So the answer is: 1 model.

Other way around surely? Each model in the building is assumed to be in contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy player. If there is only one medusa attacking the building, then each model in the building would be assumed to be in contact with the medusa, as that is the only model there. Thus all models in the building would be in base-to-base contact with the attacking medusa.
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Calisson
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Calisson »

Nice try.
But I doubt your interpretation can beat a relevant rule quote.

So the answer remains: 1 model.
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by marcopollo »

Calisson wrote:Buildings are described p.126 sq.
For "Avert Your Gaze" , read p.128, "Special attacks".
It says "For special attacks (such as stomps) and items that affect models in base contact,
a model fighting in a building is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy player..."


So the answer is: 1 model.


As per your quotes above:

"a model fighting in a building is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model (the medusa)" So any model in a building is in contact with the medusa. So then all models in the building suffer from avert your gaze.

I think Red has it right.
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Calisson »

- I don't understand clearly how you manage to translate "one enemy model nominated" to "all models in the building".
- Even if your interpretation was debatable, when in sincere doubt between two interpretations, sportsmanship would recommend to keep the least favorable.
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Red... »

Here's the process shown through an example:

A unit with three models (Model 1, Model, 2, Model, 3) sits in a building, they are being attacked by a single medusa.

We run through the rule ("a model fighting in a building is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy player...") for each case:

Model 1 from the unit: He is a model fighting in a building, thus he is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy. There is only one enemy model attacking the building, so the nominated model must be the Medusa.
Model 2 from the unit: He is a model fighting in a building, thus he is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy. There is only one enemy model attacking the building, so the nominated model must be the Medusa.
Model 3 from the unit: He is a model fighting in a building, thus he is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy. There is only one enemy model attacking the building, so the nominated model must be the Medusa.

The "one enemy model nominated" portion of the rule refers to models attacking the building, not those within it. I think you are confusing the setup: the medusa is outside the building attacking inwards, the unit is inside the building. Each model in the unit in the building is affected by the rule, not just one model.

I agree with the benevolent interpretation approach, but the above is not an interpretation, it is RAW. There is no area of grey to suggest that a model in the building is not affected by the rule just because another model in the building is affected by the rule as well.
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by marcopollo »

I would play it as though we were in a typical combat engagement, whereby if the enemy was 20mm base, then 4 models affected by avert your gaze and if 25mm then only three. That seems a fair compromise.
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Re: Avert your Gaze on garrison

Post by Calisson »

BRB p.128 wrote:"For special attacks (such as stomps) and items that affect models in base contact,
a model fighting in a building is assumed to be in base contact with one enemy model nominated by the enemy player..."
Red... wrote:The "one enemy model nominated" portion of the rule refers to models attacking the building, not those within it.
Let's check if it is as obvious as you think.

The rule refers to "a model fighting in a building" and to its enemy.
There are two factions, one garrisoning the building, one assaulting it.
A model garrisoning a building is certainly "a model fighting in a building", there's no dispute.

Now, couldn't a model assaulting a building be considered to be "a model fighting in a building", too?
The description p.128, "Fighting the assault", mentions "the best fighters from either side pushing their way forwards into the fray" and "It's hard to maintain the impetus of a charge in a confined area".
To me, the underlined words can be used to prove that at least some assailants are inside the building.
Of course, I'm pushing words to extreme, but that's RAW, too.

More importantly, I would find strange that the game conceptors
- would make a rule for insiders able to be in base contact with only one single outsider,
- while outsiders would be left free to be in base contact with as many as 10 insiders, on the pretext that this rule would allegedly not apply to them.
This difference of treatment does not make much sense, to the point that I strongly doubt it could be a correct interpretation.
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