[8th Edition] Bullshit Alarm and End Times Rules

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Duckman5
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[8th Edition] Bullshit Alarm and End Times Rules

Post by Duckman5 »

Hi fellow Druchii generals,

For my friend's upcoming birthday, he wants to field 4500 points worth of Orks & Gobbos vs 1500 points each of Dark Elves, Daemons of Chaos, and Bretonnia. In our discussions over how to balance the rules, he stumbled across the most recent 8th edition FAQ which contains a few "amendments" that substantially change how the game can be played. I don't have the FAQ open, but the gist of the rules are:
1. Lords and Heroes combined can be 50% of one's army instead of the 25% limit on each, and
2. Every Wizard gets access to the Lore of Undeath.

What gives? Are these official rules, or part of End Times? They seem stupid fluff-wise to me (why would a Damsel be able to raise Skeletons?), and also heavily imbalanced (I could field a Dreadlord on a Black Dragon in a 1000 point game), favoring hero-hammer instead of tactically rich combat. Or, a bus of 30 hero-level goblins that will certainly stomp anything we can field with 1500 points.

Any information on how these rules fit in to 8th Edition and if I can call bullshit would be greatly appreciated!
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Re: [8th Edition] Bullshit Alarm and End Times Rules

Post by T.D. »

This is End Times rules.

There's a whole raft of them in each End Times book, which slowly de-stabilise the game into what is eventually an unbound state.

That's not to say they won't be fun -- to field the big hitters like Nagash, Karl Franz, Tyrion Avatar of Khaine, our own dearly beloved and awesome Eternal King Malekith, etc, etc, you really need that 50% characters value.

Personally, I would get together with your friends and decide what you want -- an 8th game as represented in the BRB, or an End Times game.
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Daeron
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Re: [8th Edition] Bullshit Alarm and End Times Rules

Post by Daeron »

Lore of Undeath was specifically added as ET rules, where the update to 50% Lord/Heroes combined was often considered a change to the base game.

My local meta enjoyed the liberty of the 50% for characters combined. We didn't experience any issue from it, but then we didn't exactly cheese it up. I don't think any of us ever fielded a dragon. So this never bothered us. Most of us played elite armies as well, so it was usually welcome.

The Lore of Undeath is an entirely different matter for me, since it can break the character of things. Especially for goblins etc, it boosted them to one of the more powerful magic races. I don't care that much for this in an ET setting, but for normal 8th ed games we go without Lore of Undeath.
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Re: [8th Edition] Bullshit Alarm and End Times Rules

Post by Daeron »

Duckman5 wrote:Or, a bus of 30 hero-level goblins that will certainly stomp anything we can field with 1500 points.


I don't see this being fixed by sticking to a 25% Lord and 25% Hero limitation. In fact, I'd argue it be even harder for the1500 pointers :)
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Duckman5
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Re: [8th Edition] Bullshit Alarm and End Times Rules

Post by Duckman5 »

Thanks for the responses! As it is his birthday I imagine we will ultimately let him decide, but we definitely need to get on the same page regarding what kind of game we want to have.
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Re: [8th Edition] Bullshit Alarm and End Times Rules

Post by Red... »

They seem stupid fluff-wise

Yes

also heavily imbalanced

Yes

favoring hero-hammer instead of tactically rich combat

Yes

Are these official rules

Yes

or part of End Times?

Yes

if I can call bullshit

No

Best way to understand the changes was that they were intended to begin moving from a game of rigid rules and restrictions to one of "throw what you have on the board and have fun 40k Apocalypse style". The problem was that at the time the player base didn't really know what the end goal was, so a lot of people (myself included) approached it skeptically. Now that we understand the journey that GW was pushing the game through - ultimately landing it in a game in which players controlled the competitiveness of their lists through mutual agreement rather than the rules - we can understand a lot of the rules and regulations relaxation in that light. Does that make it better? No, it's still bloody awful. But at least it kind of makes sense now.

So, the best way to play it is to move to the spirit where you agree with your buddy to try to build lists that are fun, rather than miserable to play against. Of course, as it's his birthday, you may just want to show up ready to laugh and eat some pizza while he bulldozes through your ragtag assortment of scouting parties with his god legions. Sometimes going with the flow is easier than fighting the tide.
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Duckman5
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Re: [8th Edition] Bullshit Alarm and End Times Rules

Post by Duckman5 »

Of course, as it's his birthday, you may just want to show up ready to laugh and eat some pizza while he bulldozes through your ragtag assortment of scouting parties with his god legions. Sometimes going with the flow is easier than fighting the tide.

Reckon this is great advice, though it goes against my instincts as a general to risk defeat in any circumstance!
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