SPECIAL: Executioners

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SPECIAL: Executioners

Post by Langmann »

I like them at 11 points myself. I like a hard hitting unit that can have ranks, numbers, banner, etc. Opposes things like chariots and hydras.

Some people would like an option for Heavy Armour +1 point. I can see this as at least an easy thing to add, and not too powerful. Perhaps a little better against shooty armies, but I rather think not, since even with 5+ save handguns shoot them to crap. The only thing they'd be good against is regular bows, and not many armies use those weapons.

However in HtH may increase their liveability against S3 T3 troops, thus I may take HA for that.

Usually I use them as hard hitting flankers that need to help break, or in long HtH against dwarfs and other units with great weapons (except swordsmasters of course). In that case HA is negated anyway.

Either way, some people really want the option to upgrade so in that case lets add it.

Other than that I like this troop.
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Post by Imdat tauble »

add the upgrade to keep ppl happy - id never take it - it dusnt help them THAT much and they're pretty good as is.
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Post by Thanee »

Because of WYSIWYG reasons, the unit really has to get heavy armour. Because of balance reasons the cost may not be increased.

Solution, add heavy armour for free! It really is that easy!

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Post by Langmann »

Do you think we could get away with that for free?

GW has already 'playtested' (ya right) our DE, they may not approve changes that require complete replaytesting! How would we justify the free cost of that? 8 points for light armour warrior, plus WS upgrade (1 point), 9, plus great weapon (2 points), 11!
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Post by Metallurgist »

I don't know if we'll get away with it, but they wouldn't be overpowered with HA at 11pts.

So, again I agree with Thanee. *sigh* ;)

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I definately agree with that.
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Post by Thanee »

Easy, because of the paid-for Initiative + strike last and the somewhat overlapping S5 + Killing Blow.

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Post by Langmann »

Good point. Ok Heavy armour AS 5+ 11 points. I am in agreement.
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Post by Imdat tauble »

i dun get how that works - we get an upgrade, and we DONT pay for it, even though (IMO) they are fine as is???
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Post by Thanee »

They're not fine, they look like heavy armoured and they die like flies.

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Post by Imdat tauble »

and they wont die like flies when they have heavy armour??? I mean really, think about it. All givin them heavy armour's gonna do gamewise is make us seem un-reasonable. They're still gonna die almost as easily, so its just stupid to do so when we're trying to convince GW to accept this.
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Post by Thanee »

It's a small difference, but it's still a difference. The no-cost-increase can be explained (see above). This is also one of the biggest complaints GW heard zillions of times already.

No, I don't think it's unreasonable.

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Post by Thanee »

And this will not be a problem, if GW accepts the general thought of a revision. ;)

THAT will be the problem.

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Post by Metallurgist »

Excuse me, but a 5+ save is a BIG difference to a 6+ save. It's actually twice as good.

Of course, it's only the defensive part that's twice as good, and I don't think they'd be overpowered at 11pts wearing HA. Of course, to have the option for +1 pts would still be better than nothing, so if it turns out too many people would balk at the idea of an upgrade for no points, that would be a fine alternative.

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Post by Thanee »

I meant it's a small difference usually, because you do not always fight S3 troops. Of course, the 5+ save is twice as good as a 6+ save, but in most situations a 6+ save is worthless and a 5+ save is still not very useful.

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Post by Imdat tauble »

we need something other than just the heavy armour tho... maybe an upgrade that allows them to killing blow all models???
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Post by Inquisitor black »

This is a summary of proposals from another executioner thread.

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- Give Executioners Killing Blow on a 5+

- Give them Strength four

- Allow them to cause fear

- Give them the Malevolant resolve special rule (allow fallen models to attack).

- Allow them to do d3 wounds.

- Give them a shield. (Killing blow might only work with draich).

- Change rules slightly....

Basic Strength 4, Draich gives + 1 strength and +1 armour save, require two hands, strikes in initiave order, retains killing blow

- Also, I remember an uprgade someone suggested...

Temple Executioners - One unit of Executioners may be upgraded to temple executioners. This unit has strength four and full plate armour.

The rules for temple executioners could change, so that they gain fear, killing blow on 5+, strike in iniative, whatever.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post by Dungeon_god »

Morasul sent me an idea about the executioners:

Morasul wrote:it's really hard to find a good rule for them. but i've one question: why does every elve (exept of heroes of couse) has only one attack? the high elves have units with LS9, S4, causing fear, WS6, so there are diffrences to the normal warriors...
so why theres no unit with 2 attacks in the profile? i know this unit would be very hard, but they are great in combat (see the storys) AND they strike last, they have only w3 and a bad amour... this would compensate a good part of this great advantage. of course the points MUST be increased (perhaps to 14, 15, don't know exactly...) and it needs to be playtestet
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Post by Dark Alliance »

My 2 cents : I like this idea too. It hits me in the same way the Eternal Hatred idea for BG did.

2 attacks, killing blow great weapon strikes last. That'll do for me. Oh and heavy armour.
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Post by Dungeon_god »

Yeah, the heavy armor is, for me, a necessity.
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Post by Matras »

One additional attack would make them more expensive. I would keep them at KB 5+ and HvA. That seems to be the overall consense, lets stick to it.
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Post by Inquisitor black »

Why should they get two attacks?

Why should they be able to strike more attacks than a swordmaster, more attacks than a chaos warrior (that isnt khornate :D), more attacks than a grail knight!!!

Really, attacks isnt the solution, it is what they do with their ATTACK!

My opinion is give the KB on a 5+, HA for 13 points. KB doenst apply to their HW.
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Post by Dungeon_god »

OK. It was merely an idea from a member-I was relaying the information. The ideas were interesting to me, so I thought it might be good. I am not sure why they would get two attacks either-it is a cool idea though. With Hvy Armor, makes them very viable in combat.
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Post by Matras »

Yes, but it would be overkill - and as far as I know, there is no non-champion model with two basic attacks in the warhammer world. Our Execs are now pretty good, I think.
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Post by Inquisitor black »

Yes, but it would be overkill - and as far as I know, there is no non-champion model with two basic attacks in the warhammer world. Our Execs are now pretty good, I think.


Yep ... :D

On the charge. imgaine 11 S5 attacks with killing blow, ws 5. Really, we are asking a bit much with that don't you say? :D
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Post by Dungeon_god »

Matras wrote:Yes, but it would be overkill - and as far as I know, there is no non-champion model with two basic attacks in the warhammer world. Our Execs are now pretty good, I think.


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