Dark riders can do it better !!! supplement on page 2

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights

User avatar
Gidean
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am

Post by Gidean »

Daeron wrote:Well.. that would make it a flank charge and he must make a front charge. For a frontal charge, he needs to hit the corner marked in red to force a close the door on himself or you. That wheel is made impoassible.
If this were done with a piece of terrain and a single DR unit, I would call it a fairly legal move. However, using another unit of yourself as a blocker in this manner feels absurd to me.



You have lost me. Why does he have to hit the red dots as opposed to the other corner going straight forward? Then both the DR close the door and he is against both their fronts.
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Post by Daeron »

So according to you it's alright to hit the flank or rear or a unit, and then force a close the door on it to reach the front?
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
User avatar
Killerk
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:56 pm
Location: Poland

Post by Killerk »

Daeron - What you posted, I consider bending the rules beyond criticism, and the have been banned at the ETC a long time ago.

There is also more examples. I will prepare them later maybe this or next week, as I'm preparing a different article on "making improbable charges"
I should post it in the next 2 day's.
Also known as Kanadian
Image
Image
User avatar
Kristo
Noble
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:48 am
Location: Athens
Contact:

Post by Kristo »

Very informative and helpful tips in this thread!

The way I see it is to opt for shades and harpies due to lower cost if your neede core are already filled in a game <3000 points otherwise start pick up DR units untill core are filled then fill in 1-2 more support slot with either shades or harpies depending on preference.

I'd like to get both in pairs 2xDR 2harpies 2xshades but sadly on games <3000 points there's not enough room for that without gimping other aspects of your list.

All our 3 support units have their advantages and disadvantages it's always good to combine them. Combos of DR+shade and DR+ harpies can be lethal.
'And lo, he shall rule with a dark hand and his shadow shall touch uppon every land.'

Single combat I await
My shadow brings them fear
The spikes upon my chariot
Will grind them when they're near...
User avatar
Omnichron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Norway

Post by Omnichron »

Here's a list over worst plays to do in matches.
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
User avatar
Gidean
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am

Post by Gidean »

Daeron wrote:So according to you it's alright to hit the flank or rear or a unit, and then force a close the door on it to reach the front?


That's just it. Your diagram to me looks like it will contact the corner. Not the flank OR the front. When the DRs close the door their fronts will be in contact.
Asmodean
Warrior
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:12 pm

Post by Asmodean »

I have a question concerning No.1, double flee:

As far as I understood, and the way we've been playing, is that when someone declares flee and you pursue, you both roll off, and if you roll high enough to catch him, he is simply removed (before moving), and you move (the distance between you plus his flee roll) and figure out where you end up (behind other units, obstacles etc).

If that is not the case (seeing that I'm the only one raising a point about it), doesn't it create an huge advantage for the fleeing unit (since it can pass through obstacles, blocking terrain and other units) and the pursuing unit can't?

In the no.1, double flee, if both DR units roll 2 for their flee roll, first unit ends up behind the other and is safe, then the other one ends up behind the first one and is safe as well (completely irrelevant of what the pursuing unit rolls for pursue?)
User avatar
Killerk
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:56 pm
Location: Poland

Post by Killerk »

As far as I understood, and the way we've been playing, is that when someone declares flee and you pursue, you both roll off, and if you roll high enough to catch him, he is simply removed (before moving) and you move the distance of his flee roll and figure out where you end up (behind other units, obstacles etc).

Rolling off is ONLY done after a filed break test. There is a table on page... (around page 20)... don't have the book with me. Lower left corner, with a digram, concerning steps in the charge phase. Follow it to the letter and you should understand what GW meant in the description of the charge sequence.

In general

A unit charges, you declare a reaction.

If you hold, you both do nothing, and your opponent may declare his next charge.

If it is stand and shoot, roll the dice to hit, wound exc., if caused panic, make the LD panic test, if charging unit fails, your opponent moves the once charging now fleeing unit accordingly. And your opponent may declare his next charge.

If you declare a flee, opponent must decide if he tries to redirect, if so must pass a ld, if he passes you roll the distance for your flee, and move the unit in the appropriate direction, and your opponent gets to declare a new charge.

If he fails the redirect LD test, you roll the distance for your flee, and move the unit in the appropriate direction. And your opponent may declare his next charge.

The charging player does not roll any charge distance or move his unit until he decides that he is not going to declare any more charges. Once he declares this, he chooses which unit's he is charging, rolls dice, moves and chooses the next unit.



If that is not the case (seeing that I'm the only one raising a point about it), doesn't it create an huge advantage for the fleeing unit (since it can pass through obstacles, blocking terrain and other units) and the pursuing unit can't?

Yes fleeing units are in a better position, but a cost. Since they are now fleeing, and every unit that declares a possible charge makes them flee further. I have seen unit's flee a total of around 60" to flee of the board, do to multiple flee rule.

In the no.1, double flee, if both DR units roll 2 for their flee roll, first unit ends up behind the other and is safe, then the other one ends up behind the first one and is safe as well (completely irrelevant of what the pursuing unit rolls for pursue?)

Yes that is correct.
Also known as Kanadian
Image
Image
User avatar
Strutsagget
Slave on the Altar
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:09 am

Re: Dark riders can do it better !!! supplement on page 2

Post by Strutsagget »

Anyone still got the pictures for this post?
Would love to add it to the EEFL forum for future reference and tactics.
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: Dark riders can do it better !!! supplement on page 2

Post by Daeron »

I don't have them and my google-fu wasn't good enough to help out. They would have to be remade. The google docs still has some of the diagrams
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Post Reply